EVE General Discussion

Hi again everyone.

Just a small update. We've been following the discussion and we are working on and/or looking at the topics brought up in this thread but as I talked about in the original post and in follow-up posts, we're making no fast decisions on any policies apart from the pausing of rare in-game reward programs. For all policy matters we are sitting down with relevant stakeholders and taking our time with the various feedback from the various channels so that what we end up with makes sense not just for the cases on people's minds right now, but also other current cases and potential future ones. Hasty decisions are not the solution here.
As we've stated, we are working on a more visible framework for how we reward and encourage third party initiatives. Work that had partly started but has been accelerated because of recent events. The timeline will probably run through the CSM winter summit with some information likely to be available sooner.

We had a good meeting with the CSM today where we discussed how we'll proceed in terms of gathering feedback on specific points of the debate through surveys. We're also looking at the EULA questions brought up in this discussion, another matter that will take some time and input from relevant stakeholders in the company.

A lot of us will be away for EVE Vegas in the coming days and we hope to meet some of you there for a chat.

You have no proof of any of your claims ... its all slander , and I dont think anyone doubts CCPs integrity just because they didnt specifically address your unsubstantiated claims...Stop being a hater and a cry baby ...

Hundreds of pages of doubts only in this very forum. Stop being ignorant.

Are you kidding me?

The issue at hand is not only future events but the legitimacy of THIS event and you are not going to respond until AFTER the event?

full on **** on the customer's face. way to go

CCP is in a tough place because of the symbolism of the event. But we the players unfortunately at this point have to be patient. CCP, for their side - must realize that the longer this takes the more important they "get it right". Anything that comes across as CCP favoritism toward SOMER will be met with outrage and a loss of business.

To some of us, there was a breach of business ethics, it seems cut and dry and we would like to see that clearly admitted. Yet we also must understand the need proceed carefully when crafting policy. If you are looking for an admission of guilt, you may not get one as literal as you hope. That being said, a nuanced reader can see that CCP, at the very highest levels, 'gets it'.

David's mail to the CSM comes close to basically saying "yeah we messed this one up". Unfortunately, it was followed up by a bunch of comments from other devs that merely came across as excuses for why they picked SOMERblink. And ultimately they were excuses which highlighted the problem further, rather than admit or address it.

But this is why they need to take their time and why they need to avoid sending mixed messages. It is enough, in my mind, that we are no longer hearing empty explanations, and are being told "we're working on it". I have had the pleasure of meeting David Reid on a number of occasions actually, sharing stories of Ultima Online and the like. I have always been impressed by him and if he's involved in this - I am willing to wait for what he has to say.

And now, the attention on this issue has brought to light a whole new issue that apparently CCP either just missed or knowingly turned a blind eye to hoping the player base would miss it: the RMT side of SOMERblink.

Once again - this is a tough spot for CCP. We are talking about a near iconic establishment in our game world. Should its accounts be seized? Should all its isk be confiscated? It's easy to go down that slippery slope of saying "it doesn't do EVE any good to shut them down", and that may be true. But realize there are other lotteries out there - and within the game competition should be fair. When one of them RMT's and gets endorsements from the game creators - then the competition is no longer fair.

And it goes beyond the game. SOMER and therefore MarkeeDragon have basically been given, through CCP's ignorance or allowance of their activity, an unfair advantage over other GTC sellers/referrers. Is there a connection between the referral agent and the seller here? This is just one of many questions that need to be answered. How much ISK? How much cash? Did every smart individual at CCP who extolled the virtues of SOMERblink REALLY miss this, or was it allowed to happen intentionally? Once again - these are delicate questions and the answers take time.

I for one am willing to let CCP stew in this one. Not just so they "get it right", but also to let the magnitude of this seep in, so that they do not come down with an inadequate response. They must realize far better than we do that Star Citizen as well as other games are becoming a huge threat to EVE. They cannot afford these missteps any longer. The market is only going to get more competitive.

I mean look at Star Citizen alone. While their fundraising has brought in what only amounts to a third of CCP's revenues per year, it is for a game that does not even exist yet! And at its foundation is Chris Roberts and the backdrop of "Wing Commander" a game that has tremendous emotional leverage on many of us. Indeed it led many of us to playing EVE in the first place, as EVE became the "Wing Commander Online" we had so desperately hoped for. It enjoys a cult-like following comparable to EVE's, but once again - the game isn't even in alpha yet! And CCP has to compete against new games like that with 10 year old code, with a subscription based game in the era of 'free to play'. Tough job.

But yet - they've continued to hold our attention thus far. Why?

Because EVE is odd.

That's right. EVE is an oddity in the current environment of free to play and pay to win. Yet CCP must realize that that is its strength! It is because of that oddness that people are drawn to it. To walk the road of pay to win, to allow RMT'ers to turn isk making into a business, and to meddle in the economy with the injection of items of value is to deviate from that niche.

Every time CCP has tried to become less of an oddity - they've regretted it as far as I can tell.

CCP's market for EVE is not that big. It's not even as big as the MMO market in general given a number of factors that cause some MMO'ers to select out of the pool from which CCP can draw. They cannot afford to alienate customers over this - any of them.

So CCP profits in 2012 amounted to roughly 25,000 subs. That is just 5% of the total. Now I have no idea if this is typical for the business, but it seems rather nerve wracking to know that if 5% of your customers vanish, you are no longer making any money. In other words - that even if you retain 95% of your customers, you are in trouble (not accounting for new subscriptions of course). Please realize this is just a fun numbers game. It doesn't take investments back into the corp, such as R&D and marketing into account, but I still find it interesting.

So in the end this is a whole lot of words the conclusion of which is just that this is a big deal for CCP. I've been as persistent a poster as any, but primarily because I don't care to be fed empty excuses. I will however be patient if I know I am going to get a solid response. Once again - it's a big deal. Let them treat it as such, and await their response. Be patient folks.

well, as the gentleman above us pointed out in the previous post, we still have an option to make sure they 'get it'... we're just being patient for the time being.

I'm aware. It took thousands of people unsubscribing en masse before they understood that we weren't going to be **** on. And even then, they fired the community support team because of upper management's bullshit, and tried to play it off as if it was the players' fault!

To be fair, CCP's response to issues like this is generally to try to play it down, or to let it die off on its own. History has shown us that is how they operate, and it is up to the players not to let it happen. Monoclegate is the best example of this line of thinking: the only reason CCP got involved was because players wouldn't shut up. In fact, the first post on the issue started like this:



"Buying time" until they could get the bullshit going and get us to shut up. What followed was the banning of several high-profile members of the "resistance", people being told they shouldn't post, etc. In the end, CCP Pann and the PR team was fired en masse because the players had spoken. CCP Pann was thrown under the bus, and Hilmar tried to pin the blame for the firings on the players.

I'd like to see things change, but unfortunately I don't think that is going to happen this time. I am not saying this is as big as Monoclegate, or T20, but it's definitely an issue of trust in CCP. They started to get it back, and then it was ripped away. That's the problems with secrecy.

And every word worth reading. This. All of it. ^

CCP,

You will be hurting yourself and doing yourself an extreme disservice if you are seen :

- supporting
- vouching
- associating
- endorsing
- continue to 'white knight"
- "cozying up" with

Somer during the Vegas event.

- Is Somer a subsidiary business of CCP? ( Yes, it's time for the "Conspiracy Theory" questions )
- How many working days do you really need to formulate a response to this issue? ( You don't seem to have made it a prority to do so ).

By not showing any urgency to resolve this issue before the Vegas event, well, I don't think that's a good idea.

Is CCP really going to follow the motto, "Greed Is Good"? ( Is Gordan Gecko CCP's new CFO? )

Come on guys, please fix this issue before Vegas. For the sake of what little integrity you have left, please fix this issue.

Somer is a player run gambling site, which I believe is a scam, and IMO is involved in RMT. CCP should stop associating with them and investigate / audit their activities.
As such, CCP, has to come to terms that they have to loose having Somer as a means of financial revenue, for the sake of saving its reputation.

CCP, please don't choose money over integrity.

Please, I'm tired of the designer jeans and monocles.