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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#5621 - 2013-10-15 15:38:35 UTC
Hell ***** wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I almost wish they'd shelve the proposed Marauder changes until the next quarterly update after Rubicon (CCP indicated they're moving to annual expansions and quarterly updates). I think it would be beneficial to see these alongside Pirate battleships and any proposed rebalancing there.


This is actually the best idea to come out of this thread, unless they already are rebalancing pirate bs's and just not told us yet.


It is all about a downward spiral in effectiveness in high end ships, closing the gap between the low end and high end. Do you really think these guys wrecking the Marauder are doing it in a vacuum, compared to the pirate BS's? They already have their nerfs lined up for this ships as well.

By trashing the Marauder, then can then use that as a baseline on how much they can wreck the Mach, Vindi, and Nightmare. The Rattlesnake is garbage comparatively already, (sells for half the price of the next cheapest pirate BS) so it won't be wrecked as much.

I have seen so many pilots gloating about the fact that the amour Marauders are now garbage in incursions. Going to interesting seeing their reactions when the pirate BS's are trashed.

Then they come after the Cynabal and Vigilant.
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5622 - 2013-10-15 15:43:02 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Hell ***** wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I almost wish they'd shelve the proposed Marauder changes until the next quarterly update after Rubicon (CCP indicated they're moving to annual expansions and quarterly updates). I think it would be beneficial to see these alongside Pirate battleships and any proposed rebalancing there.


This is actually the best idea to come out of this thread, unless they already are rebalancing pirate bs's and just not told us yet.


It is all about a downward spiral in effectiveness in high end ships, closing the gap between the low end and high end. Do you really think these guys wrecking the Marauder are doing it in a vacuum, compared to the pirate BS's? They already have their nerfs lined up for this ships as well.

By trashing the Marauder, then can then use that as a baseline on how much they can wreck the Mach, Vindi, and Nightmare. The Rattlesnake is garbage comparatively already, (sells for half the price of the next cheapest pirate BS) so it won't be wrecked as much.

I have seen so many pilots gloating about the fact that the amour Marauders are now garbage in incursions. Going to interesting seeing their reactions when the pirate BS's are trashed.

Then they come after the Cynabal and Vigilant.


Vargurs online it is then if current changes go thru.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#5623 - 2013-10-15 16:16:57 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
By trashing the Marauder, then can then use that as a baseline on how much they can wreck the Mach, Vindi, and Nightmare. The Rattlesnake is garbage comparatively already, (sells for half the price of the next cheapest pirate BS) so it won't be wrecked as much.

You're not painting a great scenario here... (not that I disagree)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
#5624 - 2013-10-15 16:17:27 UTC
I'll hold my stance.

Give marauders +50m3 drone bay, leave the bandwitdth at 50mbps.

Increase the tanking HP by 15%. +15% base shield HP for Vargur and Golem (or just a raw increase by 1500 base shield HP), +15% base armor for Paladin and Kronos (or just a raw increase by 1500 base armor HP).
or,
Give all marauders +1 slot. +1 low slot for shield marauders and +1 mid slot for armor marauders. This would make the ships either apply more damage, or better apply it. Also, would compensate for the lack of a web bonus for the armor marauders by giving it them the capabilities to add another web.

Give marauders proper T2 resistances (or at least the command ship version), and remove the bonus to resists from Bastion (let's face it, hull tanking is ridiculous without the bonus to the hull repper). All other bonuses, such as range (unstacked), rep bonuses for shield boosters and armor repairers, immunity to EWAR, immobility should be kept.

Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#5625 - 2013-10-15 16:25:20 UTC
Serge SC wrote:
I'll hold my stance.

Give marauders +50m3 drone bay, leave the bandwitdth at 50mbps.

Increase the tanking HP by 15%. +15% base shield HP for Vargur and Golem (or just a raw increase by 1500 base shield HP), +15% base armor for Paladin and Kronos (or just a raw increase by 1500 base armor HP).
or,
Give all marauders +1 slot. +1 low slot for shield marauders and +1 mid slot for armor marauders. This would make the ships either apply more damage, or better apply it. Also, would compensate for the lack of a web bonus for the armor marauders by giving it them the capabilities to add another web.

Give marauders proper T2 resistances (or at least the command ship version), and remove the bonus to resists from Bastion (let's face it, hull tanking is ridiculous without the bonus to the hull repper). All other bonuses, such as range (unstacked), rep bonuses for shield boosters and armor repairers, immunity to EWAR, immobility should be kept.


I agree with the additional slots.
The class is facing a huge nerf in effective damage, and additional slots will mitigate that, to a certain extent.

That being said, the web nerf now means a double-webbed target is now whizzing around 15 times faster than it was.
No amount of mid-slots will make up for that.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#5626 - 2013-10-15 16:27:52 UTC
Hell ***** wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I almost wish they'd shelve the proposed Marauder changes until the next quarterly update after Rubicon (CCP indicated they're moving to annual expansions and quarterly updates). I think it would be beneficial to see these alongside Pirate battleships and any proposed rebalancing there.


This is actually the best idea to come out of this thread, unless they already are rebalancing pirate bs's and just not told us yet.


Given the fact that the marauder changes are still not sorted out and it is about a month from deployment...re-balancing pirate ships and not disclosing for feedback this late wouldn't be very wise. I'd imagine they will do that in the point release.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#5627 - 2013-10-15 16:38:59 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I agree with the additional slots.
The class is facing a huge nerf in effective damage, and additional slots will mitigate that, to a certain extent.

That being said, the web nerf now means a double-webbed target is now whizzing around 15 times faster than it was.
No amount of mid-slots will make up for that.

99% of the suggestions in this thread are better than what CCP has proposed. That in of itself speaks volumes.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5628 - 2013-10-15 16:40:42 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


I agree with the additional slots.
The class is facing a huge nerf in effective damage, and additional slots will mitigate that, to a certain extent.

That being said, the web nerf now means a double-webbed target is now whizzing around 15 times faster than it was.
No amount of mid-slots will make up for that.


They have the exact same DPS and better damage application at range.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#5629 - 2013-10-15 16:50:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


I agree with the additional slots.
The class is facing a huge nerf in effective damage, and additional slots will mitigate that, to a certain extent.

That being said, the web nerf now means a double-webbed target is now whizzing around 15 times faster than it was.
No amount of mid-slots will make up for that.


They have the exact same DPS and better damage application at range.


Ranged damage application has never been something battleships have lacked >.> closer damage application is, the marauders fixed this with tracking bonus and web bonus which have been removed. The worst part is the bastion mode, you go into bastion mode for one full minute....that is PLENTY time for other ships to approach and scram you rendering MJD usless and because you suck at CQ combat your ranged damage application becomes irrelevant.

I like the ideal of having a sniping T2 BS but that should have been an added class, not destroying a perfectly working class to replace it with ****.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#5630 - 2013-10-15 17:03:56 UTC
Octoven wrote:
I like the ideal of having a sniping T2 BS but that should have been an added class, not destroying a perfectly working class to replace it with ****.

But where would the fun be in that? Roll

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5631 - 2013-10-15 17:04:04 UTC
Octoven wrote:


I like the ideal of having a sniping T2 BS but that should have been an added class, not destroying a perfectly working class to replace it with ****.


They have never been a working class outside of missions and even then they suffered badly to E-war.

The new ships are great fun in pvp and I already have several fits ready to go in November. Webs are simply not needed as its a long range boat and when coupled with the new E-war frigs you will be blapping frigs trying to burn to you at 60 to 80km. The ability to tank a 50 man frig gang while dishing out death is hilarious.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#5632 - 2013-10-15 17:08:34 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Octoven wrote:


I like the ideal of having a sniping T2 BS but that should have been an added class, not destroying a perfectly working class to replace it with ****.


They have never been a working class outside of missions and even then they suffered badly to E-war.

The new ships are great fun in pvp and I already have several fits ready to go in November. Webs are simply not needed as its a long range boat and when coupled with the new E-war frigs you will be blapping frigs trying to burn to you at 60 to 80km. The ability to tank a 50 man frig gang while dishing out death is hilarious.


Hell yes, can't wait.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Octoven
Stellar Production
#5633 - 2013-10-15 17:11:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Octoven wrote:


I like the ideal of having a sniping T2 BS but that should have been an added class, not destroying a perfectly working class to replace it with ****.


They have never been a working class outside of missions and even then they suffered badly to E-war.

The new ships are great fun in pvp and I already have several fits ready to go in November. Webs are simply not needed as its a long range boat and when coupled with the new E-war frigs you will be blapping frigs trying to burn to you at 60 to 80km. The ability to tank a 50 man frig gang while dishing out death is hilarious.


Easy enough to say when you are playing around with a grand total of 4,000 isk. Hope you enjoy the same level of "awesomeness" when its 2.5 billion on the line and blob fleets.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#5634 - 2013-10-15 17:16:47 UTC
Octoven wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Octoven wrote:


I like the ideal of having a sniping T2 BS but that should have been an added class, not destroying a perfectly working class to replace it with ****.


They have never been a working class outside of missions and even then they suffered badly to E-war.

The new ships are great fun in pvp and I already have several fits ready to go in November. Webs are simply not needed as its a long range boat and when coupled with the new E-war frigs you will be blapping frigs trying to burn to you at 60 to 80km. The ability to tank a 50 man frig gang while dishing out death is hilarious.


Easy enough to say when you are playing around with a grand total of 4,000 isk. Hope you enjoy the same level of "awesomeness" when its 2.5 billion on the line and blob fleets.


Remember the troll you are arguing with.
The guy is a goon FC, whose only small gang warfare is when he runs his high sec suicide Tornado fleets.

Also remember, he does not pay for ships.
goon line members get free ships, when fit to the doctrine, FC's get a whole lot more.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5635 - 2013-10-15 17:19:11 UTC
Octoven wrote:


Easy enough to say when you are playing around with a grand total of 4,000 isk. Hope you enjoy the same level of "awesomeness" when its 2.5 billion on the line and blob fleets.


These arn't made for big fleet fights, they are made for small scale combat and yes, I will be enjoying my billion isk hulls because, unlike you, I don't care about risking some internet spaceship pixels to have fun.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5636 - 2013-10-15 17:20:37 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Remember the troll you are arguing with.
The guy is a goon FC, whose only small gang warfare is when he runs his high sec suicide Tornado fleets.

Also remember, he does not pay for ships.
goon line members get free ships, when fit to the doctrine, FC's get a whole lot more.



I'm not an FC, we don't run nado gank fleets and I pay for my own ships.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#5637 - 2013-10-15 17:25:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Octoven
baltec1 wrote:
Octoven wrote:


Easy enough to say when you are playing around with a grand total of 4,000 isk. Hope you enjoy the same level of "awesomeness" when its 2.5 billion on the line and blob fleets.


These arn't made for big fleet fights, they are made for small scale combat and yes, I will be enjoying my billion isk hulls because, unlike you, I don't care about risking some internet spaceship pixels to have fun.


Yeah, but see...I could go out and buy a lamborghini and have loads of fun speeding...and of course totaling the vehicle is even more of an adrenaline rush; however, there is a big difference between stupidity and fun. Then again you strike me as the kinda of person that would go mining in an asteroid belt with a titan just for the hell of it cuz its fun. Doesn't make it any less stupid.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5638 - 2013-10-15 17:35:06 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Octoven wrote:


Yeah, but see...I could go out and buy a lamborghini and have loads of fun speeding...and of course totaling the vehicle is even more of an adrenaline rush; however, there is a big difference between stupidity and fun. Then again you strike me as the kinda of person that would go mining in an asteroid belt with a titan just for the hell of it cuz its fun. Doesn't make it any less stupid.


Again, the isk isn't an issue. 1 bil a day is easily done several ways.

If I could earn enough to buy a lambo every day then yea, I would probably get one and take it to a track.
NexusWatcher
Perkone
Caldari State
#5639 - 2013-10-15 17:35:26 UTC  |  Edited by: NexusWatcher
baltec1 wrote:
NexusWatcher wrote:
Serge SC wrote:
Chimpface Holocaust wrote:
Neut/Nos is technically Ewar so it should be covered by the Ewar immunity of the bastion module


Unfortunately it doesn't. My Paladin got neuted to hell and back by a Kronos (Henry Montclair's) while on Bastion. Lost it due to lack of cap to jump away, rep or shoot.



This.

Tested Kronos and Golem on lvl 5 missions and the energy towers sucked me dry no time flat. Bit pointless for the bastion at that point. This also leads to it being even more useless in PvP. Bastion up, get nueted, no more tank, die.

Neuts need to be reworked to be under EWar as opposed to it being categorized under engineering, but at the same time, wouldn't remote cap transfer work as well in theory? If not, then what's the damn point? I'll do some testing and post back.


There needs to be a way to shut these things down for smaller gangs rememberBlink



So true, but having it one way but not having it the same the other way clashes in that aspect.

Side note, you can solo these bad boys in lvl 5s just fine, even with neut towers as long as you have cap injectors fitted. Just stay on your toes. I was reparing over half my armor with 1 AAR and T2 armor nano rigs. DPS its still decent. Tried with neutrons and a web for giggles (on a Kronos) and it still ate everything up...now to figure out how to get in on NPCs that orbit at 75k without a propulsion system is a different thing. I'm not playing the Pythagorean theorem game.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#5640 - 2013-10-15 17:37:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Octoven wrote:


Easy enough to say when you are playing around with a grand total of 4,000 isk. Hope you enjoy the same level of "awesomeness" when its 2.5 billion on the line and blob fleets.


These arn't made for big fleet fights, they are made for small scale combat and yes, I will be enjoying my billion isk hulls because, unlike you, I don't care about risking some internet spaceship pixels to have fun.

Ha!

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=