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[Rubicon] [Updated] Interdictor Rebalance

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Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#61 - 2013-10-15 15:27:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Andendare
Why are we seeing an Eris with split weapon bonuses? I thought the new Roden would be able to fit either/or, not be compelled to fit both. With only 4 turrets and 4 launchers, one is forced to use split weapons. At least with 5 turrets you could fit a cloak and 2 sphere launchers and have a single weapon system. Now with that set up, we'll be forced to fit an oddball launcher or turret.

Please fix the hardpoint mounts to not force Eris pilots to use split weapons. You guys phased it out of Minmatar T1, made a GREAT way to choose which weapon system you wanted for other split weapon ships (namely Minmatar Fleet Issues), and fixed the Ares' Roden bonuses for either/or. Now, you have a throwback, old-style split weapons system on the Eris.

It really should be a ship (and indeed the whole Roden line) that lets you choose which weapons system you want to use instead of only 4 of each weapon hardpoint. It's not even about damage output. Balance that around having all of one weapon on the ship. It's about optimal range/max flight time, instant weapon damage, etc. This is a step backward, Fozzie.

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Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2013-10-15 15:31:20 UTC
Nartel Vortok wrote:
Anna Djan wrote:
I was really looking forward to the changes from a non 0.0 dessy pilot.

Quite disappointed.

From the stats I can not see a reason why i'd pick these over standard dessies or AF's (non 0.0 perspective remember).


Why would you use a dictor out of nullsec? The entire point of it is to bubble, not to be some bad gimmick lowsec pvp ship.

Interdictors are actually some of the best ships to blitz the SoE epic arc. Due to their high warp speed making all the traveling faster (which is getting an overall buff) and their ability to mulch NPC frigates.

This is a very tiny niche role but it is a hi sec one.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#63 - 2013-10-15 15:31:23 UTC
Call me crazy, but if Interdictors are the only ships that can fit launcher, why give all four hulls the same bonus to the launchers?

Just set the rate of fire to whatever value is appropriate, and give the hulls a real bonus to the class.
Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-10-15 15:31:56 UTC
Given that bonuses that boost only 1 damage type are only about a 1/3rd* as effective as
bonuses that boost all damage types
*1/4 would be the raw maths , but there are second weakest resist cases to consider.


Rough effective turret/launcher comparison.

Eris 6 + 6 + drone = 13
Sabre 8.75 + 1 = 9.75
Heretic 8.75 + 1 = 9.75
Flycatcher 7 + 1 = 8


Given that the fly only has 1 slot for damage upgrade compared to multiple on other hulls it looks hopeless outclassed tbh.
An extra launcher slot would be in order
or a better damage bonus. maybe 5% rof.

Also Flycatcher needs a name change.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2013-10-15 15:35:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Call me crazy, but if Interdictors are the only ships that can fit launcher, why give all four hulls the same bonus to the launchers?

Just set the rate of fire to whatever value is appropriate, and give the hulls a real bonus to the class.


I agree. The 15% reduction in microwarpdrive signature radius penalty per level from the Talwar comes to mind here. Then they might have a chance of getting out of a fight alive. They have a much larger base sig than their T1 brethren so they would still bloom much larger than an interceptor (or a Talwar) while not being as fast or mobile.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#66 - 2013-10-15 15:40:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
HERETIC - The Heretic gets its missile bonuses applied to lights as well as rockets, and gains an extra launcher for people who want to fit it with damage in mind...

Would have sounded awesome and Amarr like if it was on its lonesome, but why does all the two other revised Interdictors get to have more damage without even wanting to fit for damage and on top of better raw damage they also get application of said damage ..

It is fine to let the Flycatcher be the ultimate missile spammer with application+damage+range and the two others split range and application .. but why, oh why the raw damage discrepancy?

Considering that the Heretic has worse application I'd say it ought to have more raw damage than the others .. as in same 10%/lvl with the seven launchers.

PS: They will never get to use any combat ability they may have in any measurable sense after the new Interceptors go live, forever destined to drop bubbles in suicide runs. One way to head that off at the pass would be to distinguish between anchored and dropped bubbles and allow the latter to override nullifier bonuses .. ie. Interdictors as straight up hard counters to Interceptors.
Tetsedah Izuto
Deadspace Exploration.
#67 - 2013-10-15 15:41:12 UTC
Split weapon systems on the Eris making it remain useless and unused? -1 do not support.
lllya Kuryaki
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#68 - 2013-10-15 15:42:04 UTC
NOOOOOO !!! You doint it WRONG CCP, give a SigRadius Bonus to poor Dictors thats always die in a big dallas lelo multipass Boom in the first 2 seconds of a engage coz the ship is just big like a cruicer with mwd ON !!!

Dictors needs sigradius love !.
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#69 - 2013-10-15 15:44:45 UTC  |  Edited by: XvXTeacherVxV
CCP Fozzie wrote:


ERIS - Eris is the next in the new Roden designs. Big bonuses to both missiles and hybrid turrets allow the highest damage of all the dictors if one chooses. However for most normal uses the big Eris changes are the huge amount of mass it lost (leading to much much improved speed and agility) and the extra fittings. The 10mn AB plated fleet fits will be much improved after Rubicon.

Gallente Destroyer Bonuses:
10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level
5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion radius per level (was 10% bonus to small hybrid tracking per level)

Interdictors Bonuses:
10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret, Rocket, and Light Missile damage per level (was 5% bonus to thermal rocket and light missile damage)
10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level

Role bonus:
Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers

Slot layout: 8H, 2M, 4L; 4(-1) turrets, 4 launchers
Fittings: 64(+2) PWG, 210(+16) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(-1) / 700 / 750(-1)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 700(+231.25) / 350s(+37.5) / 2(+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 305(-3) / 3.52(+0.145) / 1250000(-213000) / 6.1s(-1.11)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 500 / 7
Sensor strength: 13(+2) Magnetometric
Signature radius: 85(-1)



Very underwhelming. Those hybrids weapons on there will have a lot of trouble tracking frigs I think. I would be a lot more enthusiastic if you got rid of the split weapon system on this ship and made the Eris more like the catalyst's big scary brother:


Gallente Destroyer Bonuses:
10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level
10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret tracking per level.

Interdictors Bonuses:
5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level

Role bonus:
Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers

Slot layout: 8H, 2M, 4L; 7(+2) turrets


Now that's a ship I'd fly.

Also, get rid of every drone bay that's only 5 m3. Having a bay that size is like getting a 3 cent raise. What's the point?
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#70 - 2013-10-15 15:44:47 UTC
Try again on the Eris, Fozzie. The "new generation" split weapon systems (as seen on the Minmatar Fleet Issue ships) are amazing and done 100% correctly. The Eris' new split weapon system is exactly the same "old generation" design that was deemed as bad and worthless and then targeted for removal.
Denuo Secus
#71 - 2013-10-15 15:51:47 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Try again on the Eris, Fozzie. The "new generation" split weapon systems (as seen on the Minmatar Fleet Issue ships) are amazing and done 100% correctly. The Eris' new split weapon system is exactly the same "old generation" design that was deemed as bad and worthless and then targeted for removal.


This
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#72 - 2013-10-15 15:52:36 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Try again on the Eris, Fozzie. The "new generation" split weapon systems (as seen on the Minmatar Fleet Issue ships) are amazing and done 100% correctly. The Eris' new split weapon system is exactly the same "old generation" design that was deemed as bad and worthless and then targeted for removal.
Exactly this. Roden should be the armor alternative to the Minmatar Fleet's shield split weapon bonus.

So, if a pilot wanted a shield ship with either/or-style split weapons, he can choose a Minmatar Fleet Issue. Or, if he prefers armor either/or-style split weapons, Roden is available for this pilot. A total throwback 4 turret, 4 launcher for 8 high slots is a split weapons system if I ever saw one. Put it out of its misery once and for all.

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Sokor Loro
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2013-10-15 15:53:03 UTC
The dps increases are nice, but they desperately need a boost to survivability, preferably on the sig side so they can actually do more than drop their two bubbles and immediately die in a large fleet fight.

I've never understood why their survivability is worse than their T1 counterparts.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#74 - 2013-10-15 15:54:31 UTC
Fitting two weapon systems is literally nothing but a downside. Having the option to choose one of two, however, is a neat point of flexibility and a good way of differentiating a ship from others.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#75 - 2013-10-15 15:55:13 UTC
split weapons no Eris... NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

They're all gonna laugh at you!

Honestly, dictors should have the bubble immunity, not interceptors.

Flycatcher; plx swap a mid for a low. kthx.

Sabre; why reduce agility? It's fine to have one race that is better at mobility than all the others, just so long as it's not head-and-shoulders above them. The Sabre is now the slowest to align of all 4 dictors. It is still the fastest. But it seems perhaps you over-nerfed its agility.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Luscius Uta
#76 - 2013-10-15 15:57:23 UTC
As I already mentioned in the thread about Interceptors, giving missile bonuses to Gallente boats is rather silly. I would prefer some kind of a drone bonus in its place along with a 25/50 m^3 drone bandwidth/bay.

Other dictors look fine at first glance, but in its current form, Eris is a still gonna be something most players wouldn't touch with a sh***y pole.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Capt Retard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2013-10-15 16:00:38 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
David Kir wrote:
And there we go, the Minmatar ships has the worst agility of the lot.
Yup, makes sense.

Well, it has the best speed and with a nano it's the most agile and speediest dictor.
Standard lowslot is nano and gyro, and it will still perform amazingly. The Sabre is not magically **** just because the other dictors are not.



Well DUH. fit an agility mod and its agile! And then fit one on 'any other dictor' and its less so. Its a nerf!

Minmatar are meant to be small and agile and fragile in place of slow and tanky. This puts them at the opposite end of the whole minatar ethos.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#78 - 2013-10-15 16:01:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
These ships were originally designed to work on the 'alternate' weapon system from their T1 counterpart.

Minmatar - Artilllery to AC for the Sabre
Caldari - Hybrids to Missiles/Rockets for the Flycatcher.
Amarr - Lasers to Missiles/Rockets for the Herectic.
Gallente - I really don't know what the **** they were doing with this ship.

Since 'the beginning' we have introduced new T1 destroyers that work off of the alternate weapon system. The alternate weapon systems per race for that matter has changed! You could have redone these ships from the ground up with new weapon systems, bonuses, slot layouts, etc. It's not as if any ship other then the Sabre or the occasional Flycatcher saw the light of day.

The changes proposed are the bare minimum to make the class function and are a rather lazy 'get it done fast' attempt at rebalance. It's rather obvious what the ships were designed to do. Go back to the drawing board and make it happen.
Zilero
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2013-10-15 16:02:24 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Interdictors ahoy!
Otherwise we've focused on getting the three under-performers up closer to the Sabre's power level while maintaining their own distinctive styles.



So basically what you have done is:

Nerf sabre slightly for large fleets.

Improve everything else slightly for large fleets.

Where is the buff to the other dictors for small gangs and/or solo gate camp?

Why did you REMOVE a gun slot from the Eris instead of adding one?


Seriously, this update is ******* terrible.
Aram Kachaturian
Aram Pleasure Hub Holding
#80 - 2013-10-15 16:10:15 UTC
I'm ok with those decent changes.

This game needs new ridiculously expensive clothes in the Nexus Store tho, it's one hour work for CCP and eternal swag for us.

Golden cane, golden hat por favor

Servant of the Secret League, Wielder of the Monocle Clubhouse Flame.