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[Rubicon] [Updated] Interdictor Rebalance

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Author
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#101 - 2013-10-15 17:36:15 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.

Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.


Fair enough. Here's a simplified list of things I personally want to see

- Roll the bubble launcher bonus into the module itself, and give interdictors a better bonus there.
- Eris should not be FORCED to split weapons. A choice between the two is good. 4/4 does not offer a choice.
- Bigger EHP buff to be higher than T1 destroyers for greater survivability inside the bubble.
- Less highslots and more med/lowslots IF you don't buff EHP.

Katrina Oniseki

Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#102 - 2013-10-15 17:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Urkhan Law
Hannott Thanos wrote:

Well DUH right back at you, the Gallente and Amarr are both armor tank, so no way you fit nano on them, the Caldari has ONE lowslot, and you fit either DC or BCU. Minmatar is shield tanked with 2 lows for gyro and nano.

I really hate this agility / mass trend.
Base speed of MInmatar ships is really not worth much now (Stabber lineup not included).
All this ships need a propulsion mod right? Mwd? ONLY with the mwd what are the speeds of this ships?
Why is the ship forced to use an extra module to regain their racial speed advantage?

And despite not flying this ships, why the hell is split weapon systems returning? Wasn't that over?
Oi U
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
HYDRA RELOADED
#103 - 2013-10-15 17:41:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bubble immune dictors

No-one would survive. Who would clean up all the mess?
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#104 - 2013-10-15 17:43:39 UTC
Does anyone else think 6/6 for Eris would work best? Full rack of hybrids? Gank Eris, anyone?

Or is that too stronk?

Katrina Oniseki

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#105 - 2013-10-15 17:47:51 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Does anyone else think 6/6 for Eris would work best? Full rack of hybrids? Gank Eris, anyone?

Or is that too stronk?


It's not about what ratio of hardpoints. 4/4 would be fine if it just had bigger bonuses - currently it's down a bonus compared to other dictors. It needs full tracking, range and damage bonuses to all its weapons if it wants to be competitive. Good damage potential, bad at fitting damage mods. If it doesn't work, just keep adding drones until it does. The scythe/typhoon fleet issue thing isn't actually split weapons, you're never using both unless you're terrible.
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#106 - 2013-10-15 17:48:02 UTC
If you're insisting on the silly split weapon bonuses on the Eris at least bump the hardpoints up to 5 launchers/ 5turrets so we can choose to lean meaningfully towards one or the other.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
Parasitic Legion.
#107 - 2013-10-15 17:48:10 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
I see Roden Shipyards' design team are still inhaling paint fumes.

Seriously, scrap the split damage nonsense and give Roden ships a theme other than 'kinda crappy and unfocused'

This is what happens when you mix nuclear warheads and antimatter.
Roden Shipyards needs to reevaluate there concepts regarding weapons and either become a full missile production line or become the opposite of Duvolle Labs and focus on long range hybrids.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2013-10-15 17:50:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.

Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.


I agree. That role should be reserved for the much more fragile interceptors.

I hope you consider doing something about the survivability of interdictors in their main role of dropping bubbles in the middle of hostile fleets. I am all for ships going all explody in a fight but when an entire class is universally referred to as "flying coffins" something is wrong.

Besides more bubbles means more explody and that's good right?
xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#109 - 2013-10-15 17:53:15 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.

Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.


What about a halfway measure... create the Small Micro Jump Drive?

Dictors would have a limited ability to jump out of bubbles to reposition, but can't use it alongside every interdiction probe cycle.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#110 - 2013-10-15 17:53:35 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Does anyone else think 6/6 for Eris would work best? Full rack of hybrids? Gank Eris, anyone?

Or is that too stronk?


It's not about what ratio of hardpoints.


In this case it kind of is, because you're left in the rare case of too many highs to fill. It should probably be 5/5 turrets/launchers and swap a high for a mid/low.

Edit: Horrible weird split weapon bonuses aside.
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University
Ivy League
#111 - 2013-10-15 17:56:35 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
I see Roden Shipyards' design team are still inhaling paint fumes.

Seriously, scrap the split damage nonsense and give Roden ships a theme other than 'kinda crappy and unfocused'


For only 40 USD (did that price go down recently?) you can be the proud owner of a paint sniffer- I mean, Roden Shipyard t-shirt!!

(Really, did that price go down? I thought all the 0.0 Eve was like 90 bucks and up and left you with 0.0 in your wallet, hence the name of the collection.)

DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/

EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy

Dazz Riiiiiiight
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#112 - 2013-10-15 18:02:00 UTC
Capt ****** wrote:
And yet another ...

Buff everything, nerf Minmatar.

Holy crap - its like the end of days for minmatar.

Missile boats ahoy - with no range.

Autocannon nerformama - TEs down the pan.

Worst Caps by a staggering margin.

Command ship loveliness perforated with shotgun.

Lowest DPS marauder FTL (for the loss).

Dump on minmatars speed and agility advantages - they cant compensate with worst weapon systems. The is no 'flavour' in the racial minmatar its porridge (with lots of salt).



juicy juicy tears
Captn Hammer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2013-10-15 18:02:22 UTC
Despite training all Destroyer Vs before Odyssey, the split weapons on the Gallente Dictor was what kept me away from committing to the Eris. Please don't propetuate that, using some thin continuity with Roden Shipyards as justification. Give us a few more drones instead of the missle/launchers, or, like a true successor to the Catalyst, more turrets.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#114 - 2013-10-15 18:04:01 UTC
I do think Roden Shipyards should be missile only you already have duvolle labs for blasters

Roden - missiles only
Duvolle Labs - blasters
Creo Dron - drones

makes more sense to me i think you should look at minnie fleet and maybe make one of their T2 manufacturers do the missile/projectile split

Thukker - ASB falloff AC
Boundless Creation - missile or projectiles options like the fleet versions
Core Complexion - e-war ships missiles only mix well with TP and web bonuses

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Grath Telkin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2013-10-15 18:06:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.

Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.



Replace Bubble bonus with MWD sig reduction bonus (very few people train dictor to 5, this would give that incentive)

Change Eris to 6/6 turrent/ launcher


Everything else looks good and complaints are largely a collection of what overpowered thing people wanted on their particular favorite ship

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#116 - 2013-10-15 18:11:40 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.

Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.


why do you think this?

atm they pretty much insta die on the field the moment you uncloak/warp in; giving them bubble imunity will give them a chance to gtfo before they die in a fire, and even so they will die allot;

all the dps buff is nice, but if you browse the killboards a bit you will find that most of the ppl don't even bother to fit guns on their dictors: 2x launchers, cloak, 1 whore gun, that's it;

like i have said before, dictor biggest problem atm is dieing too fast: the moment you arrive on field you are primary; your on bubble will scramble you, and hostiles will use that to kill you, they don't even need to have you tackled, you are tackling yourself...

also bubble immunity make much more sense on dictors than inties: they will be able at least to do some drive-bys, and they will still die allot: to bubble they need to be like <10-15 km from hostile fleet, they can get pointed easy by support ships and after you get pointed is game over.
atm flying your dictor in, to bubble a hostile fleet is a suicide mission; bubble immunity, at least, will give them a small chance to gtfo and do a second run...
Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#117 - 2013-10-15 18:15:04 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.

Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.

...* Goon parlance. Nice.

So you tell me what a dictor is for. I honestly don't know. I fit all salvagers high and all stabs low when ninja looting in tama b/c it has more CPU than a destroyer... but other than that, they fundamentally kill themselves. An Onyx or Broadsword gets a movement penalty when it's bubble gen is active, but they are built like brick s*** houses. They tank up like few other cruisers so they are survivable while in that bubble. If things go south, you (usually) have time to disengage your bubble gen because you can tank while the cycle finishes. Dictors? Dictors have to commit 100%.

So when I'm in one of the most poorly tanked T2 ships in game, camping a gate in nullsec through which a nullified T3 or any other number of other deadly ships can pop through, my first reaction is: "hmmm... I think I'll offline my MWD and immobilize myself myself as much as possible. That will totally work."

wtfbbqop my a**.

Flying. Coffin.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#118 - 2013-10-15 18:15:08 UTC
what's the point of an explosion radius bonus on frigate sized weapons anyway??
rockets already have lower explosion radius than guns sig res

T1/ Faction rockets - 20m
T2 Rage - 34m
T2 Rage with GMP lv5 - 25.5m

guns - 40m

T1/ Faction Light missiles - 40m
T2 Fury - 69m
T2 Fury with GMP lv5 - 51.75m

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#119 - 2013-10-15 18:16:53 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
I see Roden Shipyards' design team are still inhaling paint fumes.

Seriously, scrap the split damage nonsense and give Roden ships a theme other than 'kinda crappy and unfocused'

This is what happens when you mix nuclear warheads and antimatter.
Roden Shipyards needs to reevaluate there concepts regarding weapons and either become a full missile production line or become the opposite of Duvolle Labs and focus on long range hybrids.

I'm down with Roden becoming a Railgun specialist manufacturer, though how well that would fit the Eris I'm not sure.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Randolph Sykes
Russian Thunder Squad
WE FORM V0LTA
#120 - 2013-10-15 18:17:39 UTC
Totured Veracity wrote:
Make flycatcher and heretic more fleet/big gang oriented (resist bonuses + missiles). Giving heretic resist bonus and not giving it to flycatcher makes little sense as for me.
Make sabre and eris more solo/small gang oriented (more damage dealing and more maneuverability compared to heretic and fc).
Make each dictor 8 high slots and 7 gun slots.
In terms of basic agility/mwd speed: sabre > eris > heretic > flycatcher (in the end fc might appear to be more agile because of shield tank).
In terms of damage dealing: eris > sabre > fc/heretic.

And that terrible split weapon system on eris needs to be removed and changed to full hybrid bonus.

A thousand times this! T2 are meant to fill a niche, to have a specific role, to perform a specific task and be good at it. The proposed changes show a bunch of ships that perform a specific task and are BAD at it. We need a pair of combat dictors that aren't too mobile but pack a punch. And a pair of fleet dictors that aren't supposed to fit guns at all - just two bubble launchers, and be tanky and mobile enough to drop a bubble and have a chance to retreat.