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Utility High Slot/s on Mining Barges/Exhumers
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Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#1 - 2013-10-14 06:29:27 UTC
First up they would probably have to modify the existing Ice Harvesters/Strip miners to have a "Mining Point" Attribute, similar to the Turret Points and Launcher Points that already exist, to prevent putting additional Ice Harvesters/Strip Miners in the Utility slots.

I'm thinking 1 utility slot per Mining Barge and 2 for Exhumers.

Now for the tricky Balancing Point, How much CPU/PG do we add to Balance this? So that they can actually be used? (without over powering them too much)

I thinking Items that are likely going to want to be fitted are Salvagers/Tractor Beams/Nuets/Drone Link Augs/Heck maybe even remote reps

I'm thinking that the items to consider putting in them are things that you are likely to see on Frigs/Desties/T1 Cruisers, So balance based on Small Nuets/Small remote Reps/Prototype Cloak for example. Obviously you'll want to balance it so that they'll have to sacrifice max yield, so fit at least 1 fitting Module in order to have enough CPU/PG to fit something in the Utility Slots.

Ideas/Thoughts/Discussion

(only did a quick search on this - the last thread I could find on it was in 2007, with mentions in other threads since uptill 2011, so time for a re-visit)
Yolo
Unknown Nation
#2 - 2013-10-14 07:21:12 UTC
shield/cap transfer spider tanking mining operation.

awesome.

- since 2003, bitches
Jordan Jansen
#3 - 2013-10-14 09:15:51 UTC
Yolo wrote:
shield/cap transfer spider tanking mining operation.

awesome.


Haha, I was thinking the exact same thing, could be interesting! Give mining ships a fighting chance, albeit a small one.
Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#4 - 2013-10-14 09:23:36 UTC
while I love the idea

there would be serious balance issues, currently, the miners are perfectly balanced so that you can fit for max tank OR max resource harvesting,

not both,

if you slap 2 MLUs in low slot, you got almost no tank, insufficient PG/CPU to be able to fit any shield tank in the mid slots.. if you skip the MLU's and go tank you sacrifice harvesting

by adding slots, for utility, as well as adding cpu/pg to be able to use those utility slots, people would ignore the utility slots for the most part and use the extra PG/CPU to fit for tank AND harvest
Ix Method
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-10-14 09:53:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
EDIT: Nvm, hauling is too boring.

Travelling at the speed of love.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#6 - 2013-10-14 19:16:30 UTC
Not totally against your idea but i would be firmly against anything that made low, null, wh survival easier. The point of the ore in those zones being worth more is it is difficult to mine safely, it is part of the risk-benefit balance of the game.

I would be okay with things that helped your drones mine better.

okay with tractors and salvage mods so we could finally loot all those rats we have to kill as miners anyways.

given that the only two things I could support are relatively minor upgrades i dont think that the programmer time to make the change is worth it so...

While not against your idea, i cannot support it either.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#7 - 2013-10-14 19:22:35 UTC

How long until mining barges cloak with this change...

I'm not certain this is something mining barges need.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2013-10-14 19:24:56 UTC
OP forgot to explain "why this would be needed."

How did you Veterans start?
Kate stark
#9 - 2013-10-14 19:32:31 UTC
considering strip miners go in to utility slots by virtue of not needing launcher or turret hardpoints; yes please. full rack of 8 utility high slots please.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#10 - 2013-10-14 20:26:00 UTC
The only way this would work is if strip miners were changed to use a turret slot and that no cpu or pg is added.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#11 - 2013-10-14 21:22:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
These are cruiser sized ships. Why should they not have cruiser fittings & slot layout?
Then we can see some real choices of fits. Currently fits are nerfed into the ground because there are basically no options.
MLU's could be changed along with to require larger PG, to still create some choice.
You could also limit MLU's/Strip miners. Warfare Links can be limited without needing a specific slot. So this obviously isn't that hard. So you don't need to add turret slots to mining barges to make this work.
And then introduce a 'Mining Co-processor' to allow an additional MLU in a low slot. Which would then eat up a mid slot, PG, & CPU for slightly more harvest. So you really would have choices between tank & harvest at that point.
I.E.
Sample barge (No real balance here, just to illustrate idea of real choices)
5 H
4 M
4 L
Can only fit 3 Strip Miners
Can only fit 2 MLU
4 Turret Slots.

So, you immediately have a choice between firepower & harvest in the slot layouts. Obviously almost everyone would take Harvest, but your bait barges might take 4 unbonused Turrets.
2 MLU would be fairly obvious. But you then can eat up 2 of your mid slots for 2 more MLU. Meaning you end up with only a 2 mid slot tank. Or you can take only 2 MLU and have a 4 mid slot/2 low slot tank.
You can also 4 slot armour tank and use your shield slots for E-War/Tackle on a bait barge.
Make the PG/CPU balance right and you then also have to work out where it is going to go, and may have to compromise on size of modules in order to fit everything you want, or meta tank vs t2, etc.

And the addition of enough PG/CPU to actually fit a real cruiser level tank via modules means the base tank on the ships doesn't have to be any more than a cruiser either. Since you have the choice, so you can remove the baked in bonuses above a normal cruiser from the hull
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#12 - 2013-10-14 21:29:48 UTC
+1

Have to give strip miners a separate slot then. So much potential for "emergent gameplay" here

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#13 - 2013-10-15 00:59:43 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
considering strip miners go in to utility slots by virtue of not needing launcher or turret hardpoints; yes please. full rack of 8 utility high slots please.


Maybe you missed the part in the OP about creating a Mining Hardpoint, similar to Turret Hardpoints and Missile Hardpoints, and thus not being able to fit more Strip Miners due to having limited Mining Hardpoints.
Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#14 - 2013-10-15 01:32:05 UTC
Im a miner, however, we have a serious game balance issue with this

I am not opposed to having extra high slots for utility options in addition to my 3 strip miners, however, there can be zero additional PG/CPU added, for balance purposes

fine, throw on 2 extra high slots for trac beam / salvager , but adding more cpu / pg would put them way out of line as would offer option of more tank AND resource gathering..... when I should be a choice of more tank OR resource gathering,

you will have to fight for cpu/pg to fit said existing items in the game with out creating altogether new items,

barge only trak beams/ salvagers? cut / paste the code for existing ones and then change various lines of code in it to make them cost less cpu/pg for barges? eh possible?

criativa
Zugleich Techniken
#15 - 2013-10-15 02:03:46 UTC
+1

Mining needs a major revamp, and so far they gave us no idea whatsoever about what directions are being considered. Ring mining has been mentioned but never explained.

I think a lot about what kind of changes will be implemented in Industrial Command Ships. The role changes in barges and exhumers were a great start, but forgotten since then. We could have more fitting options, ship types, gravimetric site types, etc.

People may call me crazy, but I would love to see mining ships with jump drives. That would make mining in low/null a lot more fun, for real.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#16 - 2013-10-15 07:22:52 UTC
The levels that I originally had in mind, were most likely in the 5 to 15 CPU and 5 to 10 PG range

To give you a ball park information on hand a:
T1 Salvager and a T1 Small Tractor beam require 40 CPU and 8 PG
T2 Salvager and a T2 Small Tractor beam require 50 CPU and 8 PG

Like I said in the OP, in order to fit even these basic Modules would require sacrificing something else, by fitting a fitting module(Co-Pro/PDS/RC/Rigs etc)

Considering that normally the limiting factor on getting max Yield is based on CPU and max tank more often requires PG These changes would hardly even allow an Extra Small Shield Extender, let alone a medium one.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#17 - 2013-10-18 04:39:08 UTC
bump
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#18 - 2013-10-20 06:56:40 UTC
bump
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#19 - 2013-10-22 05:46:59 UTC
Bump
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#20 - 2013-10-24 01:41:40 UTC
Bump
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