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Announcement regarding rewards and prizes to fansites and third-party contributors

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Jimmy Farrere
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#581 - 2013-10-13 15:27:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jimmy Farrere
Rob Crowley wrote:
Correct, legally it's nothing at all like that. The difference is that you actually own the chips in a casino while you do not own ISK, PLEX or any other in-game assets. That incidentally is the reason why you can't turn any of it back into cash.

Well, actually you're wrong on that one. Casinos retain ownership of their chips and the only reason they hold value is because the house promises to honour their end of the deal. I agree that it's very hard to turn them back into cash though. Maybe if you could use all that credit to purchase entries into a competition with a prize worth thousands of dollars you could do it?

Rob Crowley wrote:
Jimmy Farrere wrote:
What about the real-life trips to Iceland being given as prizes on a site that you can top up your balance with real-life money?
I'm not a lawyer, but if the prizes are RL stuff shouldn't be important. What would make it RL gambling is if you pay for your bets with RL stuff. If that is somehow indirectly the case with Somer as you claim I don't know, seems like a rather complicated legal construct to untangle, and frankly I don't really care cause this is a totally independant issue from CCP giving them stuff which is the topic of this thread.

Not that difficult to untangle..

Buy Plex ($$$)-> convert to isk (game money)-> convert to blink credit (casino chips)-> gamble

I don't think the fact that you have to take 1 extra step before wagering is going to get past many gambling commisions.


Rob Crowley wrote:
If you want to close down Somer for violation of RL gambling laws then feel free to pursue this in a separate thread. This thread is about CCP giving stuff to a CCP-picked for-profit in-game organization and the arguments made wouldn't be any different no matter if Somer is conducting RL gambling or not and for that matter the arguments wouldn't be different if it wasn't Somer but another for-profit in-game organization which had been picked.

Nice of you to tell me what I can and can't talk about in this thread.

The reason it's important is that SOMER Blink is the entity that CCP has decided is most worthy of their gifts. Had they looked into this in any way they would have realised that SOMER are not only breaching the EULA but also very possibly a few real-life laws.
Rammix
TheMurk
#582 - 2013-10-13 15:33:42 UTC
Shai 'Hulud wrote:
Rammix wrote:
I won't look foolish because we discuss IWS. And we discuss not eve vegas, we discuss those gifts which were given for contribution to community. Don't speculate mixing different topics.

Your reading comprehensions skills are ...

Title of the thread: "Announcement regarding rewards and prizes to fansites and third-party contributors"

Tell me where the words "Ishukone Works Scorpion" are in that title?

This topic is not just about the IWS's given to SOMER ... it's about all the recent, random gifts (including the IWS given to BIG). And when I discussed the other prizes I talked about it as "total amount gifted to SOMER."

This will be the last time I reply to you, as I fully expect you will reply with some completely irrelevant quote proving you RIGHT Roll

Whatever. Go see the OP on the 1st page. All this topic came out of the situation with somer, and that situation made ccp create this topic to announce they're going to rethink their approach.

I don't know why you can't "stop refreshing your aggression timer". You're not breaching my armor.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#583 - 2013-10-13 16:06:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruskarn Andedare
Rammix wrote:
Shai 'Hulud wrote:
Rammix wrote:
I won't look foolish because we discuss IWS. And we discuss not eve vegas, we discuss those gifts which were given for contribution to community. Don't speculate mixing different topics.

Your reading comprehensions skills are ...

Title of the thread: "Announcement regarding rewards and prizes to fansites and third-party contributors"

Tell me where the words "Ishukone Works Scorpion" are in that title?

This topic is not just about the IWS's given to SOMER ... it's about all the recent, random gifts (including the IWS given to BIG). And when I discussed the other prizes I talked about it as "total amount gifted to SOMER."

This will be the last time I reply to you, as I fully expect you will reply with some completely irrelevant quote proving you RIGHT Roll

Whatever. Go see the OP on the 1st page. All this topic came out of the situation with somer, and that situation made ccp create this topic to announce they're going to rethink their approach.

I don't know why you can't "stop refreshing your aggression timer". You're not breaching my armor.


You actually think the 5 unique ships, worth many times more than the IWSs, that were gifted to Somer are not part of this discussion?

OP - sentence 2:
CCP Guard wrote:
There was also the matter of a recent special lottery event at SOMER Blink that CCP supported by contributing rare ships as prizes.


OK?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#584 - 2013-10-13 16:26:00 UTC
Jimmy Farrere wrote:

Buy Plex ($$$)-> convert to isk (game money)-> convert to blink credit (casino chips)-> gamble



One difference.

You can convert casino chips back into real money.

You can't do that with blink credit. (and you can't do it with ISK, either).

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#585 - 2013-10-13 17:13:29 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
(and you can't do it with ISK, either).

You can if you're Somer and you bundle isk with GTC sales. People don't buy GTCs through Somer because the GTCs are different, it's because he sells packs of GTC+isk.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#586 - 2013-10-13 17:19:28 UTC
Kate stark wrote:

except plex is given to any player in exchange for a sum of real life currency.
plex isn't given out "just because" and only limited to people ccp want to give it to, unlike the scorpions.

stop comparing apples to oranges.


You should inform yourself better about what's given "just because" and what's not. There's more than Somer in this game and the prizes given through the years are more than PLEXes.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
StuckAtTheLock
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#587 - 2013-10-13 17:19:56 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Jimmy Farrere wrote:

Buy Plex ($$$)-> convert to isk (game money)-> convert to blink credit (casino chips)-> gamble



One difference.

You can convert casino chips back into real money.

You can't do that with blink credit. (and you can't do it with ISK, either).



Please go back about 5 pages and read again.
Kalindra Chan
#588 - 2013-10-13 17:20:47 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Jimmy Farrere wrote:

Buy Plex ($$$)-> convert to isk (game money)-> convert to blink credit (casino chips)-> gamble



One difference.

You can convert casino chips back into real money.

You can't do that with blink credit. (and you can't do it with ISK, either).



You can actually and most people do, although it is legalized by CCP and part of the game for a long time.
It is called buying a GTC, convert it into a PLEX and sell it.

So i am paying your subscription for 30 days and you give me isk for that.

I can live with that though, because it doesnt matter who pays CCP the monthly subscription for the active account.
I have to admit, i am buying plexes too and sell them, because i am earning much more money in real life in one hour than i make isk per hour in game. When i would break that mark i would stop selling plexes and buy them instead.

The plex thing is still not good, because it takes away so much from that game what it makes it worth playing, but well so it is.

But i have to agree with one thing here, those aspects as important as they may be for this discussion here, are getting more and more off topic.

Sorry for that!

I'm a trap!
Kate stark
#589 - 2013-10-13 17:38:22 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Kate stark wrote:

except plex is given to any player in exchange for a sum of real life currency.
plex isn't given out "just because" and only limited to people ccp want to give it to, unlike the scorpions.

stop comparing apples to oranges.


You should inform yourself better about what's given "just because" and what's not. There's more than Somer in this game and the prizes given through the years are more than PLEXes.


it doesn't matter who did and didn't get prizes. the entire process of handing out billions of isk of in-game assets with no defined criteria is bad regardless of who did and didn't get things.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#590 - 2013-10-13 17:51:04 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Kate stark wrote:

except plex is given to any player in exchange for a sum of real life currency.
plex isn't given out "just because" and only limited to people ccp want to give it to, unlike the scorpions.

stop comparing apples to oranges.


You should inform yourself better about what's given "just because" and what's not. There's more than Somer in this game and the prizes given through the years are more than PLEXes.


it doesn't matter who did and didn't get prizes. the entire process of handing out billions of isk of in-game assets with no defined criteria is bad regardless of who did and didn't get things.


Sure but that does not change that when I write stuff, it's for a reason. And if you make exceptions, you have to be ready to know more than I do or know what they give first hand, like I do.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Kate stark
#591 - 2013-10-13 17:53:56 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Kate stark wrote:

except plex is given to any player in exchange for a sum of real life currency.
plex isn't given out "just because" and only limited to people ccp want to give it to, unlike the scorpions.

stop comparing apples to oranges.


You should inform yourself better about what's given "just because" and what's not. There's more than Somer in this game and the prizes given through the years are more than PLEXes.


it doesn't matter who did and didn't get prizes. the entire process of handing out billions of isk of in-game assets with no defined criteria is bad regardless of who did and didn't get things.


Sure but that does not change that when I write stuff, it's for a reason. And if you make exceptions, you have to be ready to know more than I do or know what they give first hand, like I do.


i didn't make any exceptions.

i just pointed out scorpions are not plex, and that a bad idea was bad.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#592 - 2013-10-13 18:02:58 UTC
Kalindra Chan wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Jimmy Farrere wrote:

Buy Plex ($$$)-> convert to isk (game money)-> convert to blink credit (casino chips)-> gamble



One difference.

You can convert casino chips back into real money.

You can't do that with blink credit. (and you can't do it with ISK, either).



You can actually and most people do, although it is legalized by CCP and part of the game for a long time.
It is called buying a GTC, convert it into a PLEX and sell it.

So i am paying your subscription for 30 days and you give me isk for that.

I can live with that though, because it doesnt matter who pays CCP the monthly subscription for the active account.
I have to admit, i am buying plexes too and sell them, because i am earning much more money in real life in one hour than i make isk per hour in game. When i would break that mark i would stop selling plexes and buy them instead.

The plex thing is still not good, because it takes away so much from that game what it makes it worth playing, but well so it is.

But i have to agree with one thing here, those aspects as important as they may be for this discussion here, are getting more and more off topic.

Sorry for that!



I have a billion ISK. Tell me how I can convert that into real money please?

Oh, and I've already plexed my accounts for the next year.

You see my point?

There's no transfer into real money. Not having to pay for accounts isn't the same as conversion into real money.



Bear in mind I'm not talking about the commission someone can get for GTC sales. That's a totally different matter.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Jimmy Farrere
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#593 - 2013-10-13 18:09:15 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:



I have a billion ISK. Tell me how I can convert that into real money please?

Oh, and I've already plexed my accounts for the next year.

You see my point?

There's no transfer into real money. Not having to pay for accounts isn't the same as conversion into real money.



Bear in mind I'm not talking about the commission someone can get for GTC sales. That's a totally different matter.


You can't, and that's why no-one is accusing you of being involved in RMT. If you are SOMER Blink however you bundle the isk up with a GTC and sell it.
Rammix
TheMurk
#594 - 2013-10-13 18:11:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:

You actually think the 5 unique ships, worth many times more than the IWSs, that were gifted to Somer are not part of this discussion?

Don't bend my words and thoughts. Those 5 ships ARE important, but THIS topic was NOT about them. People may mention whatever they want, but in any topic the OP makes the theme and what is out of the OP's line - is an offtopic.

edit
Oh, whatever. Tired of this meaningless dispute. Gifts to somer are bad, public advertisement of somer by ccp is bad. That's all I really had to say.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#595 - 2013-10-13 18:22:03 UTC
Jimmy Farrere wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:



I have a billion ISK. Tell me how I can convert that into real money please?

Oh, and I've already plexed my accounts for the next year.

You see my point?

There's no transfer into real money. Not having to pay for accounts isn't the same as conversion into real money.



Bear in mind I'm not talking about the commission someone can get for GTC sales. That's a totally different matter.


You can't, and that's why no-one is accusing you of being involved in RMT. If you are SOMER Blink however you bundle the isk up with a GTC and sell it.



Not quite.

The sale is made by Markee Dragon. They pass a little money to Somer as a commission for that.
Markee Dragon also gives the buyer a code that they can redeem with Blink for Blink Credit. (You can't cash out directly. you have to win something.)


I'm not justifying it one way or another. Just clarifying.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
StuckAtTheLock
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#596 - 2013-10-13 18:56:32 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:


Not quite.

The sale is made by Markee Dragon. They pass a little money to Somer as a commission for that.
Markee Dragon also gives the buyer a code that they can redeem with Blink for Blink Credit. (You can't cash out directly. you have to win something.)


I'm not justifying it one way or another. Just clarifying.



For the 100th time, it doesn't matter how many steps are in the process- you still get isk out of it, it is still RMT.

If RMT sites offered 'RMTSite.com credit' that you could convert to isk through bidding on billion isk packages, would that make it ok? No. There really isn't any grey line here, somer is converting his extra isk to cash by giving it away if you buy GTC from him.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#597 - 2013-10-13 19:11:13 UTC
Kate stark wrote:

i didn't make any exceptions.

i just pointed out scorpions are not plex, and that a bad idea was bad.


And I just pointed out how PLEX are a non ISK faucet like scorpions are, and did not say it was a good idea.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#598 - 2013-10-13 20:24:49 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:

You actually think the 5 unique ships, worth many times more than the IWSs, that were gifted to Somer are not part of this discussion?

Don't bend my words and thoughts. Those 5 ships ARE important, but THIS topic was NOT about them. People may mention whatever they want, but in any topic the OP makes the theme and what is out of the OP's line - is an offtopic.

edit
Oh, whatever. Tired of this meaningless dispute. Gifts to somer are bad, public advertisement of somer by ccp is bad. That's all I really had to say.


Hey, chill, wasn't an attack - just pointing out the OP had put them in the topic
Kate stark
#599 - 2013-10-13 20:30:32 UTC
monday tomorrow. wonder if CCP will have anything new to say to us.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#600 - 2013-10-13 20:54:10 UTC
I was wondering,

If CCP want to :

- continue to associate with a gambling site
- endorse gambling
- continue to 'white knight" a gambling site
- continue to support a gambling site
- vouch for a gambling site

then shouldn't Eve then be / become an adults only game, ( for those over 18 / 21 )?

Is there some sort of real life law / legal requirement if CCP continue to support Somer, ( or any other Eve related gambling site )?

To clarify, I absolutely do not support Somer, infact I believe it's a scam and that it's involved in RMT.
I would like to see CCP to stop associating / "white knighting" / supporting / vouching for what is a parasitic site.

CCP, please be logical and try to maintain what little intregrity you have left. Please, do not choose money over integrity. Please disassociate yourself from Somer.