These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Announcement regarding rewards and prizes to fansites and third-party contributors

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Shai 'Hulud
#541 - 2013-10-12 20:12:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Shai 'Hulud
There is a point of speculation that I do not recall seeing here thus far...

Many have asked "why was SOMER chosen for this gift." CCP's response thus far has been:
CCP Guard wrote:
It had to do with timing, our impression of their overall track record and capability, their niche, and habit of sponsoring events...to name a few.

I don't think I'm the only person who suspects there was something more pernicious behind this decision. More specifically, I think CCP has seen a sharp rise in GTC sales through SOMER's affiliate link. With the combination of high traffic, gambling (you're more likely to decide "I need more isk" while on SOMER's site than say themittani.com) and bonus site credit offered, there is little doubt who is the current leader in affiliate GTC sales. I suspect they would top this list even when compared to all other affiliate sales combined.

Given this, do we really need to ask "why SOMER?"

The most useful slaves are those that believe themselves to be free
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#542 - 2013-10-12 20:28:53 UTC
IN THE LIGHT OF RECENT EVENTS:


Let the players choose which blog, fansite, site or in game persona is the best regarding impact on the community, and so the Ishukone scorpions would go to the people that make those things.

Thank you.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Kate stark
#543 - 2013-10-12 20:38:36 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
IN THE LIGHT OF RECENT EVENTS:


Let the players choose which blog, fansite, site or in game persona is the best regarding impact on the community, and so the Ishukone scorpions would go to the people that make those things.

Thank you.


*looks at the true stories competition*

yup, that can't go wrong.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#544 - 2013-10-12 20:40:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
At least CCP will have clear account regarding playerbase faith in the company.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Rammix
TheMurk
#545 - 2013-10-12 20:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Shai 'Hulud wrote:
You have some reading to do.

No, you have.

This
CCP Guard wrote:

Note that we haven't said that the ISW will never be given out again in any sort of giveaway. Just that we're pausing rewards of this nature until we are sure they make sense or have a framework ensuring they make sense :)


and more importantly this
CCP Guard wrote:
In this dev blog prior to Fanfest 2012, we announced that the ISW was not exclusive and would evntually be made available to everyone eventually:

"This leads on to another question, does this mean we will be seeing ship skins for sale in the NeX store or by some other method? That is currently not the plan and is not in development so the short answer is no. The Ishukone Scorpion was already created as the first prototype and Game Design plan to release it to everyone at some stage."


edit:
p.s. quotations from this topic

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Montmazar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#546 - 2013-10-12 21:20:10 UTC
Shai 'Hulud wrote:
There is a point of speculation that I do not recall seeing here thus far...

Many have asked "why was SOMER chosen for this gift." CCP's response thus far has been:
CCP Guard wrote:
It had to do with timing, our impression of their overall track record and capability, their niche, and habit of sponsoring events...to name a few.

I don't think I'm the only person who suspects there was something more pernicious behind this decision. More specifically, I think CCP has seen a sharp rise in GTC sales through SOMER's affiliate link. With the combination of high traffic, gambling (you're more likely to decide "I need more isk" while on SOMER's site than say themittani.com) and bonus site credit offered, there is little doubt who is the current leader in affiliate GTC sales. I suspect they would top this list even when compared to all other affiliate sales combined.

Given this, do we really need to ask "why SOMER?"


We should keep asking until CCP drops the pretense that Somer is a better Eve service than Dotlan, EFT, EveMon, Pyfa and Chriba's services. The longer they pretend that gee whiz, those Somer guys sure are inspiring, then the longer we the customers know we are getting lied to.
Kirren D'marr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#547 - 2013-10-12 21:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirren D'marr
Rammix wrote:
Shai 'Hulud wrote:
You have some reading to do.

No, you have.

This
CCP Guard wrote:

Note that we haven't said that the ISW will never be given out again in any sort of giveaway. Just that we're pausing rewards of this nature until we are sure they make sense or have a framework ensuring they make sense :)


and more importantly this
CCP Guard wrote:
In this dev blog prior to Fanfest 2012, we announced that the ISW was not exclusive and would evntually be made available to everyone eventually:

"This leads on to another question, does this mean we will be seeing ship skins for sale in the NeX store or by some other method? That is currently not the plan and is not in development so the short answer is no. The Ishukone Scorpion was already created as the first prototype and Game Design plan to release it to everyone at some stage."


edit:
p.s. quotations from this topic


The five unique ships given to SOMER to use as prizes for the EVE Vegas lottery were not IWSs; it was specifically stated that those five ships were created for that event (after the Gold Magnate issue came up), and they would never be given out again (as Shai 'Hulud quoted). If you had bothered to read the quote or the link, you would know that, and that these were the ships Shai 'Hulud was referring to in his post, and you would not look quite so foolish right now.

Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.     _ - Kina Ayami_
Niraia
Starcakes
Cynosural Field Theory.
#548 - 2013-10-12 22:22:53 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
We selected to reward SOMER and his staff because the time was right to do stuff with them, Vegas sponsorship being an example.


When I asked Somer how the Vegas sponsorship happened, he told me that CCP Navigator and CCP Bro contacted him on Skype to see if he'd be interested, that it wasn't on his radar at all.

Meanwhile, we (EVE Online Hold'em) had been ignored by the Vegas organiser for months after he agreed to us helping out, presumably because of this sponsorship deal.

The community team selected Somer to sponsor Vegas, so it doesn't seem like an example at all.

♥
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#549 - 2013-10-12 22:32:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Argus Sorn
Kirren D'marr wrote:


The five unique ships given to SOMER to use as prizes for the EVE Vegas lottery were not IWSs; it was specifically stated that those five ships were created for that event (after the Gold Magnate issue came up), and they would never be given out again (as Shai 'Hulud quoted). If you had bothered to read the quote or the link, you would know that, and that these were the ships Shai 'Hulud was referring to in his post, and you would not look quite so foolish right now.



For an "event" that will occur a full two weeks after the ships were auctioned off. There was and is absolutely no real link between that auction and EVE Vegas. I have attempted to find out if the reference to EVE Vegas was even endorsed by the EVE Vegas folks but I have not obtained a response. Did they get cash from SOMERblink? If so, it is RMT cash. Did they get isk? How does isk help run an event in Vegas?

CCP basically contributed ships to SOMERblink to auction off and thus aide in their RMT scheme. Literally they just handed SOMERblink isk and cash. The use of the EVE Vegas name was a complete sham, and this has nothing to do with EVE Vegas at all aside from the use of the name. Otherwise why not run this auction concurrently with EVE Vegas?

The discussion as to whether rewards for recognition of should be in game or out of game items is important, and an issue for discussion - but there is a much bigger issue here than a few people being given expensive ships.

This is an obvious RMT equivalent being endorsed as "trustworthy" by CCP staff and prizes that amount to large amounts of isk and real cash in ships, and trips to Iceland being given to the same organization to just raffle off for isk and cash as usual.
Anton Menges Saddat
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#550 - 2013-10-12 22:36:07 UTC
Argus Sorn wrote:



For an "event" that will occur a full two weeks after the ships were auctioned off. There was and is absolutely no link between that auction and EVE Vegas. I have attempted to find out if the reference to EVE Vegas was even endorsed by the EVE Vegas folks but I have not obtained a response.


this is very disturbing to me What?
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#551 - 2013-10-12 22:46:58 UTC
Anton Menges Saddat wrote:
Argus Sorn wrote:



For an "event" that will occur a full two weeks after the ships were auctioned off. There was and is absolutely no link between that auction and EVE Vegas. I have attempted to find out if the reference to EVE Vegas was even endorsed by the EVE Vegas folks but I have not obtained a response.


this is very disturbing to me What?



Please note I edited it to say "no REAL link". Certainly the parties involved (CCP, SOMER, EVE Vegas) could have decided to use the name together, but in the end it's just a name and a certainly not a very strong connection - nor one that would seem to warrant the level of contribution from CCP to SOMER.

Why didn't CCP just give EVE Vegas some cash? Or let them raffle the prizes?
Montmazar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#552 - 2013-10-12 23:00:00 UTC
Niraia wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
We selected to reward SOMER and his staff because the time was right to do stuff with them, Vegas sponsorship being an example.


When I asked Somer how the Vegas sponsorship happened, he told me that CCP Navigator and CCP Bro contacted him on Skype to see if he'd be interested, that it wasn't on his radar at all.

Meanwhile, we (EVE Online Hold'em) had been ignored by the Vegas organiser for months after he agreed to us helping out, presumably because of this sponsorship deal.

The community team selected Somer to sponsor Vegas, so it doesn't seem like an example at all.


This is big news, and more evidence of a true business relationship between Somer and CCP, rather than Somer being just another "fansite" that CCP appreciates.
Anton Menges Saddat
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#553 - 2013-10-12 23:00:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Anton Menges Saddat
Argus Sorn wrote:


Why didn't CCP just give EVE Vegas some cash? Or let them raffle the prizes?

i hate to say it, but it looks like the reason was because this was really intended to be an isk injection for somer employees. they surely knew the value of the items at the time of gifting, and not only that, but it should be glaringly obvious that the ships are only useful for 3 things: a.) ship spinning in hangar, b.) becoming an ALOD story on TMC, or c.) selling to collectors for massive amounts of isk... guess which option is going to appeal to people working for a casino Roll seeing somer's requests for employees to do the transactions under a veil of secrecy (before the ships had even appeared in their redeem ques), it is clear that the intent was always for them to quietly sell the ships under the radar for the maximum amount of isk and that it should be done in secrecy because they already knew the kind of response in store if they were caught. i am having a hard time seeing any valid reason for CCP to give them these ships in this manner aside from the monetary. if it wasn't about the isk, and the ships are worth 30trit (lol), then why did CCP not just give them something that wasn't worth 20bil on the market at the time? why did somer tell employees to sell slowly, using alts, so that people wouldn't catch on? and what is the nature of this 'special relationship' between CCP and somer exactly? the wording that was along the lines of 'this is an extraordinary thing and hasn't been done before' seem to me to be evidence of wrong doing and cognizance that said actions were indeed unethical.
Alt Two
Caldari Capital Construction Inc.
#554 - 2013-10-12 23:09:03 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
I'd like a little more information on the SOMER lottery issue specifically as that was the really immense giveaway here and it's not really well addressed. Specifically, why an in-game business was given such immense prizes as "a fansite" that wound up making them almost certainly literally trillions of isk. It's not really addressed at all in your post: no indication of why SOMER, no indication of what process went on here and why the CSM was never consulted, no indication of what other "fansites" have gotten these sort of things.

It's not just that SOMER got the lottery gifts. It's that they were absolutely stupendously massive. There's also the seperate problem of Navigator officially declaring them Not A Scam.

The IWS issue would not have been nearly as big an issue without that: it's that both happened, and that the lottery gift to SOMER was already absurdly out of line. The IWS issue exacerbated the lottery issue, it wasn't the main problem.


I can probably shed a bit of light on that although Navigator touched on that in his announcement following what was going to be the Gold Magnate event.

Why SOMER? Well, they are really popular and they have supported a ton of events so we wanted to explore what we could do with them. Their influence in the community is significant for the same reason that they are space rich - because they're good at what they do.

In the statement we go into who else have gotten the ISWs and also what sort of giveways we usually extend to fansites.

As we said, we agree with you that we went too fast and that's why we need to re-think this whole thing. We need to keep the CSM more involved, their input is invaluable.

So the fact that they are already rich is a good excuse for CCP to make them even richer?
Oh well, at least you are true to your word Coolhttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12654979/eve/guard_tripling_isk.png
Miss Ladybird
Doomheim
#555 - 2013-10-12 23:10:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Ladybird
I have faithfully and completely read all posts relating to this topic.

The EVE player base clearly cares about this latest CCP game meddling a lot. This is a train wreck. There is right now hundreds of comments all saying the same thing.

PLAYERS ARE ANGRY:

1) CCP has given SOMERblink a wealth injection (spawned from nothing) of hundreds of billions in unique ships.

2) CCP has an ongoing and sustained campaign to vouch for, and advertise SOMERblink's in game gambling services (which are totally unaudited and unregulated by the way), increasing its revenue again by what can only be expected to be large figures. This is a pure competitive advantage for SOMERblink over its in game competitors.

3) Has been given status as being 'above the EULA' by CCP with its ongoing RMT business.

4) Has been given a special relationship with CCP (CCP skypes with SOMER)

5) CCP just wont give up the 'SOMERblink is a community hub, does good for the eve community and is altruistic' campaign. Most players hate SOMERblink.

THE TRUE TRAGEDY

CCP doesnt even care. Hundreds upon hundreds of players have now passionately expressed their anger at this, and some are even spending time investigated all the facts that relate to this case and presenting them to the community (a real community service I might add).

There is virtually no CCP commentary on this, the only comments I have read continue to sing SOMER's praises, refuse to admit anything, and fail to show any seriousness or investigation.

Put bluntly, while the players believe the above five points, CCP clearly seems to oppose across the board.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#556 - 2013-10-12 23:13:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Rammix wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
2 years ago I made a post asking for CCP to quit the hypocrisy, throw the mask and make RMT "canon".

To legalize RMT in any form except which is being done by the developer - AWFUL idea.
Any form of legal RMT will provoke much more botting, macrosing etc activity. People should keep their RL business out of game worlds. If there are some games that allow RMT for players - those games are sh*t, I'm absolutely sure. When people mix their RL income with online sandbox-style game - you can't keep healthy virtual world.


It's lovely to see how there are always some people with those pocket, black and white truths.

Let's see how easy is to prove you wrong:

1) EvE on paper is the "no RMT" game with some of the shadiest past about tolerance towards botters and has been plagued by botting and macroing since ever.

2) EvE is completely into RMT. PLEX is now a staple of EvE and also a big pillar in its economy. Does this make EvE "sh*t" as you say? Also, how unpopular it was, when CCP introduced purely 3rd party made video cards for PLEX (= RMT)? It was so unpopular that they sold out in a Blink Twisted

3) Games made to deal with RMT as a feature, HAVE to strongly deal and circumscribe botters, macroes and generally cheaters otherwise they screw up the very economic model they work upon.


Rammix wrote:

When people mix their RL income with online sandbox-style game - you can't keep healthy virtual world


if you remove the blah blah and the high horse, you find out that EvE tried to introduce "golden ammo". Not a Korean grinder but your truly, noble EvE. GREED IS GOOD, wasn't it?

As I said, hypocrital players got their hypocrical game.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#557 - 2013-10-13 00:28:13 UTC
Miss Ladybird wrote:
I have faithfully and completely read all posts relating to this topic.

The EVE player base clearly cares about this latest CCP game meddling a lot. This is a train wreck. There is right now hundreds of comments all saying the same thing.

PLAYERS ARE ANGRY:

1) CCP has given SOMERblink a wealth injection (spawned from nothing) of hundreds of billions in unique ships.

2) CCP has an ongoing and sustained campaign to vouch for, and advertise SOMERblink's in game gambling services (which are totally unaudited and unregulated by the way), increasing its revenue again by what can only be expected to be large figures. This is a pure competitive advantage for SOMERblink over its in game competitors.

3) Has been given status as being 'above the EULA' by CCP with its ongoing RMT business.

4) Has been given a special relationship with CCP (CCP skypes with SOMER)

5) CCP just wont give up the 'SOMERblink is a community hub, does good for the eve community and is altruistic' campaign. Most players hate SOMERblink.

THE TRUE TRAGEDY

CCP doesnt even care. Hundreds upon hundreds of players have now passionately expressed their anger at this, and some are even spending time investigated all the facts that relate to this case and presenting them to the community (a real community service I might add).

There is virtually no CCP commentary on this, the only comments I have read continue to sing SOMER's praises, refuse to admit anything, and fail to show any seriousness or investigation.

Put bluntly, while the players believe the above five points, CCP clearly seems to oppose across the board.



CCP, why do you continue to be "white knighting" Somer?
Is Somer involved in RMT?
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#558 - 2013-10-13 07:12:32 UTC
Miss Ladybird wrote:
5) CCP just wont give up the 'SOMERblink is a community hub, does good for the eve community and is altruistic' campaign. Most players hate SOMERblink.

To be honest, I doubt most players particularly care about SOMER one way or another, and stating "Most players hate SOMERblink" undermines what is otherwise a good post. This isn't about SOMER directly, this is about CCP arbitrarily picking the winners and losers in what is supposed to be a player-driven sandbox.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#559 - 2013-10-13 07:25:29 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:

To be honest, I doubt most players particularly care about SOMER one way or another

I think (at least I hope) that the vast majority of Eve players are able to look at a lottery that sells twelve 100m tickets for a 1b ship and just say "lol no"

I don't hate Somer blink any more than I hate the average jita isk doubler, but that doesn't mean I give them money , or that I'm ok with CCP showering them with gifts at random
Mra Rednu
Oyonata Gate Defence Force.
#560 - 2013-10-13 08:00:44 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
l0rd carlos wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
also, generally, the people in the poker tournament put some extra effort in (you know, turning up to the poker tournament, and winning it) vs somer doing nothing that isn't day-to-day business for them.


You make it sound like as if creating and maintaining a well know eve online fansite + infrastructure and handling with employees is effortless.


This is a good point actually. While we totally understand that everyone has different opinions on different projects, there's no denying that it's not an everyday task to build something that a lot of our players like and use regularly. That goes for a lot of our fansites and other contributors. I'm constantly amazed at the sheer number of high level stuff we see coming from our community members.


But it's not a fansite !