EVE General Discussion

the ones about having lots of alts as "staff" just to get more scorpions, and my post about the "irrelevant link roulette" where ccp close the thread and redirect us to unrelated threads for us to continue to give feedback in.

since we know they're here, think they'll bother letting us have an update?

also, regardless of how mocking my posts were. it's still a legitimate point that more staff = more rewards, which means are all 30 blink staff actually needed and deserving of rewards. and what's to stop current community services to say "oh and all of these guys do cool stuff for us, give them free isk too!"

deleting posts that still convey the obvious need for guidelines is counterproductive to this thread.

No the worse part is CCP gave them SOE ships, trips to Iceland, and other goodies so they could RMT more.

CCP sactioned, supported and funded their RMT. And we can't trust CCP to investigate their RMT because they've created a massive conflict of interest...

I'm all for supporting out of game websites. I use Battleclinic a lot and think the best present CCP could give them is an api server that actually works properly. You know one where ALL the killmails get reported in a nice easy to use fashion.

Giving out shiny scorps to Somer staff is a nice gesture (for the staff) but doesn't really help anyone. A working api server on the other hand would be a boon to all.

A quick recap for you.

This is not really about somer or even secrecy. Both these are still important though.

It is about transparency, the wtf value of stuffz given out, the lack of all eve players ability to participate, questions about the fairness of this and CCP's inability to explain who gets what and why, and CCP's out-and-out endorsing of any entity (or player) to name but a few of the issues that arose.

It is about trust. What else have CCP given out that no one knows about? Do you trust CCP to be honest about what they have given out after all this? I know I dont trust what CCP Guard said earlier about secret give aways ; 'what have you given away secretly ccp guard?', "Secretly...nothing. ", yet more weasel words and he could be thinking that it is not secret as *someone* knew; tell us what has been given out, when and why and dont try to "jedi mind trick" us by saying you answered this when you did not as the answer we want is a list containing who/when/why and nothing else will do.

I want to hear from IA about this; how, why and when their mandate to protect the game from this sort of thing changed.

I will say a little about the Somer problems.

Rmt is important as many see what somer do as rmt, somer being given stuffz and endorsed because they sponsor things is a rather spurious argument, somer making a profit is fine but making a profit without actually playing the game is a lot less fine.

The values of the ships, and prizes, is fairly critical for me. I have made around two trillion in assets in about nine years, for CCP to give somer 600 billion in Scorps, easily 2 trillion+ in five unique ships for nothing is like a kick in the balls to me.

(changed to 3 unique ships and 2 all expenses paid trips, still with a potential worth of, what, 1.4 trillion?)

Can you understand this? Nine years gameplay versus a few server clicks to generate some space pixels. If you cannot see why this is wrong then we have no common ground. Dont get me started on how the actual wealth it made somer was possibly 35 trillion (which becomes close to a potential eight hundred thousand US dollars of rmt, oh, and the endorsement and advertising from CCP made them how much in real life cash?).



Every answer from CCP is like a jedi mind trick. Getting the information we want from you is like pulling teeth. Will give you an example to illustrate this, here are three easy questions for you to (not?) answer...

Big list of all the give aways please, by this I mean ships or things created by CCP that were not given to the entire playerbase. You have said nothing was given away in secret, so because it is not a secret there is nothing stopping you from telling us. Pop it all in this thread in one convenient post for people to see, as it is not a secret. If the list is too massive then a link to where you have published it will do. Can we see that which is not secret?

Could you could also tell us how many GTC's have been sold by Somer (or their related gtc selling site). What is their $ value profit per GTC sold and how many have they sold; how real life profitable are they?

I have two trillion I could convert to ISK so how do I get to become an affiliate to rmt my isk as gtc's for $48,000?

Three easy questions to answer: what has been given away, how much has somer/their-rmt-site made and how do I get on the isk to $ conversion gravy train. Let's see how CCP do on these easy questions.

As for the RMT, just because it doesn't seem clear to everyone.

First, you need to step back and think globally - it's not about what you as a customer of blink are doing, you are not 'buying isk for cash' (well you are but only in small amounts/percents). It is about what SOMER is doing and they are most definitely converting in game items and currency to ISK. People seem to be lost in the idea that the person who bids using GTC gained currency may not win the auction, but they don't have to.

First, there is a GTC sale. In a way SOMERblink serves as the broker for this sale (although for all we know the people who run SOMER are also the GTC sellers out of game) and gets a percentage. Let's assume for arguments sake he gets $1 for the transaction.

In return he gives you 200M isk. Ok, it's not real isk, but on the website it is listed as real isk. SOMER treats it like real isk (although I assume they are smart enough to not let you outright refund it). It's SOMER isk. In fact this is better than them giving you 200M isk, because they don't even have to give you real isk. You have no 'account' at SOMER remember, just a record of how many credits you have with them where 1 credit = 1 isk. So they can just create 200M SOMERisk from nowhere and give it to you.

So now you have 200M make believe SOMER isk that cost you, at least to SOMERblink, $1.

Now let's say you bid on an item. And we'll assume you are not the only bidder. Let's use a Rorqual. I will use that because when I've seen them on blink the 'bids' go for 200m isk. So they are basically selling one 'bid' for a dollar - at least when it comes to the Rorqual.

It is interesting to note at this point that what SOMERblink is doing is not really a lottery, nor is it an auction. What they are actually doing is selling an item, at an increased cost, to the EVE community for 200M isk per share. What you are buying is a share, or a chance to own, a rorqual (or not, as we will see below). There is no game of chance in this transaction. There is no risk assumed by SOMERblink at all. They are selling you and the other 'bidders/shareholders" the item and then helping you randomly determine who gets to keep it. There are certainly some semantics involved, but the point is there is a distinct difference basically amount to this: SOMERblink assumes no risk, there is no game of chance from their perspective. They sell a group of people an item and then the item is randomly given to one of the group. So all of you who bid on the rorqual are basically buying it for 3.2 billion isk and then randomly giving it to one of you.

But back to our auction. Assume you manage, with your SOMERisk to buy half the bids at 200m each, which you have paid $1 for per 200M. Now let's say the other bids sell to people who have used "real isk" (in reality they are using SOMERisk they bought with real isk, but that's not terribly important). Now the item "sells". At this point it is totally irrelevant who the item goes to. It sold. SOMER no longer owns it, one of the bidders does. They could just as easily share it.

There were 16 bids, so SOMER has now received 8 dollars plus 1.6 billion isk for the rorqual.

SOMER has sold that rorqual for 8 dollars and gotten 1.6 billion isk as well. They have RMT'ed the rorqual.

They can then take the 1.6 bil and use it to buy other items that they can do the same with. If SOMER wants to they could eventually convert ALL of their isk into cash, but because they maintain a nice profit margin they are able to increase their isk holdings all while converting some of it, slowly, into cash.

Another interesting side of this is that there need not be any rorqual. It can be a completely virtual item, because they now have the isk to go out and buy one and give it to you should you want it, but you could also just as well take the buyout in isk. So SOMER need not actually have items to auction, they just need to know they can buy the item. They then buy it, and give it to you (after you and others have already paid for it). So they are basically auctioning off the right to broker an item. Like Neo's spoon, the item doesn't even have to exist.

And what if you take the buyout of 2.9 billion isk? Well then CCP has just sold you 1.3 billion isk for a eight dollars. If all of the bids are bought using SOMERisk gained through GTC purchasing, then they have sold you 1.3 billion isk for 16 dollars. From the buyer perspective it's not a great deal, but for SOMER it's 16 dollars per 1.3 billion isk. I'll leave the multiplicative math to someone else, but I would imagine it results in a not insignificant amount of cash. And either way, the amount doesn't matter: it's RMT'ing.

But look a little further. Say no SOMERisk is involved and all of the bids are purchased with real isk. The EVE community has just bought 2.9 billion isk for 3.2 billion isk. Good job folks.

So SOMERblink definitely participates in what amounts to RMT'ing. What is astonishing though is not this fact, but the fact that a bunch of community devs who thoroughly investigated them were not able to see this. They do not run a "gambling" site, despite the claims of the same devs. AND, the same devs gave these guys thousands of dollars in real world items and in game items to sell via SOMERblink under the guise of them being a "gambling site" when they are not. Items which eventually will basically be sold off for cash. In other words, our community devs have provided SOMERblink, an in game corporation they have deemed "trustworthy" with free items, worth thousands of dollars, for SOMERblink to sell off for cash.

And their defense remains the amount of isk SOMERblink throws around in game. Clearly SOMER's campaign has worked, their sponsorships have not only led to them having customers, but the approval of CCP devs.

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Well said. Could you could also tell us how many GTC's have been sold by Somer (or their related gtc selling site). What is their $ value profit per GTC sold and how many have they sold; how real life profitable are they? THIS IS THE SMOKING GUN!!!!!!!!!

I also have trillions of isk made over 8 years of playing this game. Can I create a currency (Black Credits) out of game and sell GTC and give it away 200 mil at a clip and I promise I wont even use in game stuff . I will sell ( raffle is what they call it) prostitution. So you heard it here DNSBlack will give you free black credits to buy tickets on a women or man of your choice. Just buy GTC from my web site and play for free or send me 200 mil for the ticket in game and I will convert it to black credits so you can play. The selling (raffle)will begin when 500 GTC are sold: But you dont know that. Don't worry prostitution is legal in my country and state and I am not breaking any Icelandic laws. Do you see how absurd that is and now you add in the mix kids are playing your game. CCP should not be in bed with this organization and they should not allow there eve to be pimped out. This is just a bad business model. I hope someone who is addicted to gambling drives himself into debt so bad buying your isk CCP that he threatens to commit suicide cause he lost all his isk on somer blink. Cause from what I heard you take people threatening to do that very seriously or has that changed. CCP you are on the wrong side of this fight period. Pull everything and distance your self from this as fast as you can.

CCP Guard, thank you for paying attention and following this issue. If you have been reading this thread so far, you must have quite an opinion and a good, overall understanding of the concerns of gamers.

What you give them aside, gambling websites "themselves" are a major problem with incredible isk advantage, RMT suspicions, almost zero in-game effort, etc. They owe their existence to a few legal allowances, exploit them like hell, and vacuum the community like a black hole. They do not even have to play the game in order to do this!!

They must be shut down ASAP and all ties to the actual gameworld must be cut off. It is not an issue of whether we like them or not. We sometimes play, sometimes win and sometimes lose. This is irrelevant. What is relevant is that they "always" win. "Always" win is NOT EVE!!!!

Shut them down!

On a different note, does anyone know if EVE Vegas themselves sanctioned the use of their name in regards to the SOMER auctions for the SOE ships, etc.?

Clearly those prizes, which amount to possibly thousands of dollars in real cash value due to the trips to Iceland, which were given to SOMERblink by CCP devs and could ultimately be converted into cash through SOMER's RMT scheme, actually have NOTHING to do with EVE Vegas (especially since the event is still a week away and the auctions/lotteries already occurred) other than the fact that SOMER and CCP said they do.

So I am curious if they at least at EVE Vegas's blessing to conduct this, despite there being no apparent relationship between the auctions and the event other than in name?

Just went through the entire thread reading CCP Guard's replies. None of the feedback on the situation that CCP Guard has given justifies SOMER's treatment by CCP.

CCP Navigator's endorsement of SOMER's trustworthiness alone goes beyond a mere business relationship. What I get out of the wording and the tone of it is the relationship between CCP and SOMER is closer than a typical business agreement. CCP did put its reputation on the line when Navigator, in terms of absolutes, vouched for SOMER.




Seriously, CCP accounted for every isk they ever paid out, all whatever quadrillion? Riiiight. Only one way that could happen, is if it's a CCP commissioned site ran by CCP employees under the guise of a completely different company name. Or CCP has a vetting process that includes detailed auditing of every blink and every toon that ever blinked. Out of the two, I know which one I believe is more likely.

Now, CCP Guard, you might be telling yourself that this is complete rumor mongering. And sure, it may be. But there's a point to be made here which is if CCP is intent on being this cozy with a RL business operating in game and CCP doesn't want us, the players aka your customers, concluding that the sandbox is broken because of inappropriate relationships and disproportionate favoring then there needs to be more transparency and rules of conduct in game for said businesses.

What was that you were saying before about not trying to Jedi mind-trick us?

Simply answering my direct questions INDIVIDUALLY with SPECIFIC answers instead of vague generalizations would satisfy me. Otherwise your responses thus far seem to be intentionally vague and evasive word crafting, and as such I am requesting that you be more specific regarding certain aspects of your response.

Also lets be very clear, I'm asking these questions so I and others can make informed decisions. I have not stated any position regarding lottery sites, or SOMER, but, putting your assumptions aside, if you provide answers to my very simple questions without trying to spin or be evasive you may assist me and others in forming an opinion one way or another. It would also help restore some of the the respect and trust I and others are presently losing for you specifically, and CCP in general.

I suppose I could play this game with you and make assumptions about your position, and say you just plain don't like the questions because the answers are embarrassing and that's perfectly natural, so it's to be expected that you are just going to continue to evade them, stating they've already been answered.

PLEASE prove me wrong, by just answering the following questions individually, without being evasive.


The above statement that is intended to provide answers contains several vague generalizations and does not address the questions asked. As such, please clarify your post quoted above:

1. SB has an "overall track record" of doing what exactly? This is not disclosed in your response.


2. When you refer to capability, what "capability" exactly are you referring to? There is no way to determine this from your response.


3. What "niche" exactly are you referring to? There is no way to determine this from your response.


4. Regardless of whether or not they are registered as one, does CCP consider SB to be a "fansite"? Yes or No?


5. Is CCP's official stance that SB is a trusted entity, and that players using its services can have a reasonable expectation they won't be scammed? Yes, or No are the possible answers here as well.

These are not difficult questions. If you simply do not understand the language being used, I'd be happy to clarify. If you simply don't want to answer them, or need to stall for more time so your legal & marketing departments can advise you, just say so, and I'll communicate that to my peers.


Understood, however the above does not answer the question directly as it was a very simple yes or no question. As such I am asking again above including further clarification on my part.