EVE General Discussion

Blink credits can be used to win lotteries, no? So if you pay for every ticket you effectively by the item (hence why it is a penny auction). If you do this using blink credits that Somer gave you in exchange for cash, then you have effectively bought the item.

But you need not be the only bidder. If the eight people who bid on an item all use blink credits that were given to them for buying a GTC, then SOMER has now effectively sold the item for cash.

This isn't difficult. The line isn't fine except for people who want to ignore it like CCP Guard and the rest of the SOMERblink sponsored community dev team. LOL.

You are not thinking of this globally. It doesn't matter if YOU win the ship.

You aren't the RMT'er. You are just being used by the RMT'er to convert isk to cash.

The RMT'er is the guy who converts isk/ships/etc into cash.

If any of the auctions are won with bids using "blink credits" that were given out for cash (GTC sale) then SOMER has effectively turned isk into cash. Due this enough in small amounts, it becomes a large amount.

The only effective way to make cash through RMT'ing is by doing it in small amounts. The 3 bucks or so SOMER gets for every 150 or so mil (I am estimating that they will take 50 million or so back via their take in the auction) is about 12 bucks for 600 mil which is close enough to a plex to be pretty damn efficient. I admit these are only estimates, and I might be way off.

But even if they manage half that it's pretty awesome.

Either way, it's clear that SOMERblink is violating the EULA, and CCP is encouraging it.

On top of that the community devs have said that this is all okay, and that they think SOMER is great because of the amount of isk they have thrown around.

So SOMER is breaking the rules, the rules are not being enforced, and CCP devs have admitted to loving SOMER because of the isk they spend.

This is influence peddling and bribery. This is a conflict of interest. This is a violation of business ethics.

WHAT IS SO DAMN HARD ABOUT THIS CCP?

So what is the way forward? There are several aspects of this mess that some find disturbing. Which one(s) really constitute a problem for the game?

Any time someone talks about a need for transparency, they are referring to some behavior they perceive to be inappropriate. In which case transparency is not very likely to have solved anything. So for me personally, the issue here is not transparency. I acknowledge CCP has the right to keep secrets from me.

As far as alleged EULA violations by Somer Blink, the EULA is CCP's creation. IF CCP is happy with Somer Blink's business model and it is found to violate the current EULA, CCP can either turn a blind eye or change the EULA. The perception of a double standard for what constitutes RMT is a little unsettling, and if I were in the business of selling GTCs or if I had been banned for RMT activity it might be a problem for me. Since those things don't apply, then again for me personally, this is not the real problem.

When it comes to gambling and national and international laws, I think CCP and Somer Blink and their lawyers are capable of handling things without the help of me or other EVE players. Those of us who like to gamble should gamble, and those of us who think it is bad should probably avoid it. As a "casual gambler" I personally have no problem with the existence of gambling in or outside the game, but I understand it can be a problem for some and I don't think it should be required of any player in order to take advantage of any CCP-sponsored promotion.

CCP is in business to make a profit, and we all benefit when they have the money they need to support and develop the game. Sales of time codes is a revenue source, and promoting time code sales is a legitimate part of their business. It is natural for CCP to want to foster relationships with partners who help them sell GTCs. Whatever else can be said of Somer Blink, I think it's pretty clear that they do help sell GTCs.

So what is the problem?

For me the problem is simply the mixing of out-of-game relationships with in-game rewards. Outside the game I basically think CCP should be free to do whatever they want without transparency or player approval. Inside the game, I think the opinions of the players should be respected, and rigid guidelines should be followed by CCP to preserve fairness and equal opportunity. Specifically no player or organization should receive any injection of in-game wealth from CCP. No player should be forced to deal with a third party in order to receive benefits provided by CCP. Since game time is arguably an in-game commodity, all free accounts and plex rewards should be granted in accordance with published guidelines, and records of such benefits should be available to all players. CCP should be free to create rare items, both valuable and symbolic, but the manner of their distribution should be fair. I'd like to see the CSM involved in making the determination of exactly what is fair.

Other than that, sure there are things I agree and disagree with, and some that I shake my head at, but that aren't really my concern. We aren't all going to agree on what's appropriate, but maybe we can come to terms we can live with.

Ok I just had this explained in detail how it is RMTing on my coms by people who are a lot smarter then me. In very simple terms it boils down to this.

1. Somer is selling in game items for real money.

2. This is done thru GTC sales. CCP sells them to somer at 10.00 dollars he gets 5.00 dollars = 15 dollars( these are not real numbers. I would love to have the real numbers so I can show you exactly how much he is selling the stuff in game for. But for now we will go with this . You get 200 mil blink credits for buying GTC at his site. Notice I said blink credits not isk.

3. 200 mil blink credits is worth 5.OO. (Just so you can see the reference PLEX worth 600 mil cost 15.00). Somer is using his created out of game somer blink credits to auction off in game items and his out of game free credits are worth 5.00 real dollars for 200 mil or what ever his cut is

4. EVE widget comes up for bid. 48 slots at 200 mil a slot. If all slots are taken by GTC free somer blink credits promotion players then somer sold the in game widget (warning eula breach) for 240.00 dollars. If only half of the slots are free GTC blink credits he sold the item for 120.00 dollars and so on. Getting ready for this IT DOSN'T MATTER WHO WINS. YOU GAINING THE ITEM IS NOT RMTING AND SOMER DOSNT CARE. SOMER SELLING THE ITEM IS AND HE IS MAKING REAL MONEY OF IN GAME ITEMS ( EULA PLEASE SOME ONE PLEASE READ IT). The scary part is most of you don't take the item and turn it back into somer credits and keep playing his raffle game. I guess my father was right the house never loses.

5. RMTing is selling in game items. I don't want to quote the EULA again

Iam trying my best to type this out and Argus has typed it over and over again. CCP you have been scammed by a eve CORP. In one regard Iam proud of somer they pulled off the ultimate scam. This is bigger then the sleeper social club scam and makes eve bank look small. You my friends have won eve take your victory lap please while my friends at CCP in the community department try to save there job for helping you break the EULA and make CCP look really bad.

I would love for you to come on coms and hear it explained verbaly or could some one from EVE radio have argus on to explain it. Once you hear how it is done you will go OMG really.

They are not giving me anything and all they are doing is selling in game stuff. There profit is always there they havn't given me anything. They sold a widget made in game Why is so hard for you to see.


Ok I will sell you a GTC for 15.00 dollar. I get 5 CCP get 10. In return I will give you 1 bill willy wonka tickets to enter a drawing for my arazu. You will be one of 10 entries at 1 billion tickets each. I as a RMTer don't care abou the arazu I care about how much I sold it for if all entries are GTC willy wonka tickets I made 50 dollars cash and bought the araszu for 200 mil in game. How did they get the 200 mill you ask lets see how many I can name Botting, getting on coms and asking does any one want to sell me a arazu for 25 dollars I will pay you thru pay pal, they other dumb ass losing there isk in game on my gambling site I use with shill cause I have no over site and CCP is drunk on my love shall I go on <------> RMTers don't care about the ship they care about the 50 Dollars they want money not space ships or isk.

Why did you buy my a GTC from me you ask. Cause I was going to give you willy wonka tickets and a chance at some cool ingame stuff I don't giving a fly **** about cause iam making bank selling in game stuff so you will by my GTC and try to win it. Granted the fact they are a in game corp is even more of a issue for the sand box. But I use my in game isk I don't care about GTC purchases and I play for fun. Well somer is not designed for the house to lose I promise you that but even if somer lost all its isk it will still sell GTC and continue to sell stuff

so, 27 pages and we've still had no word of what action is or isn't going to be taken on CCP's part?

Glad you agree with what I posted. Lost your meds?

I am sorry but Somer Blink and employees make tons of ISK from their 'service'... which mean they TAKE from Eve players not give. I realize Guard you were probably picked to respond to this fiasco since you are usually well liked, but the more you try to make them seem noble and needing of rewards, the paler your reputation gets.

I fail to see why building a profitable business that relies on an out of game infrastructure should be treated as something special that deserves additional rewards on top of the profits it already generates for its owners, anymore than an unusual or extremely large business using ingame infrstructure deserves such rewards. An eve business is just that - a business - whether it operates in-game or out of game, and giving any eve business additional advantages over its competitors just for being successful (i.e. for being liked and used regularly) distorts the sandbox in a very significant way. The claim that because SOMER's business has an out of game website at its core it should therefore be treated according to a different set of rules than those that apply to all ingame businesses simply isn't going to wash.

Judging by the post numbers, 5 posts have been removed from this thread in the last few hours.
I would love to know which ones...