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Announcement regarding rewards and prizes to fansites and third-party contributors

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Mitch's Forum Alt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#441 - 2013-10-11 22:28:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mitch's Forum Alt
Shad Duken wrote:
Din Chao wrote:
Shad Duken wrote:
As for the "RMT" issue, I believe CCP has looked into it - or I hope so anyway - because they seem 100% positive that there has been no RMTing from SOMER.

You hear that guys? Shad Duken "believes" and "hopes" CCP has looked into it because they "seem" like they think there isn't anything shady going on with SOMER. So shut up, ok?


Thanks for proving my point about using reason.

Rather than making a valid and reasoned response, you vilify me for having an opinion. GF m8.

i believe he was highlighting that you're operating on emotion rather than logic. 'believe' 'hope' 'seem' have no place in this discussion. we are seeking clear and concise answers, not vague reasoning and evasive wording
Din Chao
#442 - 2013-10-11 22:30:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Din Chao
Shad Duken wrote:
Din Chao wrote:
Shad Duken wrote:
As for the "RMT" issue, I believe CCP has looked into it - or I hope so anyway - because they seem 100% positive that there has been no RMTing from SOMER.

You hear that guys? Shad Duken "believes" and "hopes" CCP has looked into it because they "seem" like they think there isn't anything shady going on with SOMER. So shut up, ok?


Thanks for proving my point about using reason.

Rather than making a valid and reasoned response, you vilify me for having an opinion. GF m8.

I didn't vilify you for having an opinion. I mocked your declaration of blind faith that you somehow think is a "reasoned response."

And I'm sorry if you think "having an opinion" excludes this opinion from ridicule.
Shad Duken
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#443 - 2013-10-11 22:32:19 UTC
Kirren D'marr wrote:
Shad Duken wrote:
As several other people have said, SOMER were chosen primarily because they are, without any shadow of a doubt, THE most successful lottery site in EVE history. They may not be the longest running, but they've definitely made the most of what they've created. CCP have obviously looked at that success and said "Hey, they're the clear market leader, so let's use them to give out some stuff" because they have the capability of doing it and it getting to the largest playerbase.


It was more like, "Hey, they're the clear market leader, so let's cement that position by giving them a distinct advantage over their competition and drive even more people to their site. Oh, and an official endorsement of their reliability would help too!"



You missed the point where BIG Lottery got given the ship months before to promote their site.

Although I don't have facts and figures, I *can* categorically say that none of my friends in-game heard about BIG getting one of these ships (or any other promotions they've ever run) but everyone in my corp heard about SOMER's. Does that necessartily mean that BIG is inherently inferior to SOMER? NO. All it means is that more people have heard of and use SOMER than BIG.

As I postulated before, perhaps that added visibility was the reason SOMER was chosen this time around.
Mitch's Forum Alt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#444 - 2013-10-11 22:36:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mitch's Forum Alt
Shad Duken wrote:
Kirren D'marr wrote:
Shad Duken wrote:
As several other people have said, SOMER were chosen primarily because they are, without any shadow of a doubt, THE most successful lottery site in EVE history. They may not be the longest running, but they've definitely made the most of what they've created. CCP have obviously looked at that success and said "Hey, they're the clear market leader, so let's use them to give out some stuff" because they have the capability of doing it and it getting to the largest playerbase.


It was more like, "Hey, they're the clear market leader, so let's cement that position by giving them a distinct advantage over their competition and drive even more people to their site. Oh, and an official endorsement of their reliability would help too!"



You missed the point where BIG Lottery got given the ship months before to promote their site.

Although I don't have facts and figures, I *can* categorically say that none of my friends in-game heard about BIG getting one of these ships (or any other promotions they've ever run) but everyone in my corp heard about SOMER's. Does that necessartily mean that BIG is inherently inferior to SOMER? NO. All it means is that more people have heard of and use SOMER than BIG.

As I postulated before, perhaps that added visibility was the reason SOMER was chosen this time around.

so, they recieved free 15bil (more like 20bil as that was the price during their insider trading period) ships for personal use (read: selling for profit) because they're the most visible. is that what you're saying?
Shad Duken
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#445 - 2013-10-11 22:37:26 UTC
Din Chao wrote:
Shad Duken wrote:
Din Chao wrote:
Shad Duken wrote:
As for the "RMT" issue, I believe CCP has looked into it - or I hope so anyway - because they seem 100% positive that there has been no RMTing from SOMER.

You hear that guys? Shad Duken "believes" and "hopes" CCP has looked into it because they "seem" like they think there isn't anything shady going on with SOMER. So shut up, ok?


Thanks for proving my point about using reason.

Rather than making a valid and reasoned response, you vilify me for having an opinion. GF m8.

I didn't vilify you for having an opinion. I mocked your declaration of blind faith that you somehow think is a "reasoned response."

And I'm sorry if you think "having an opinion" excludes this opinion from ridicule.


Whereas you believe that SOMER (but oddly not BIG, it seems) are RMTing with no proof other than your belief.
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#446 - 2013-10-11 22:38:25 UTC
Shad Duken wrote:
So what I'm seeing here is CCP answering what EVERYONE said was the "key problem" of the secrecy SOMER asked their employees to use when selling the ships. Now they've answered that in a conclusive fashion, everyone has now decided that the secrecy actually wasn't the problem (because CCP answered and the drama over it is over) it's now about the value of the ships.

Make your fricking minds up.
Take off those reality distortion goggles please. You're free to read the earlier threadnaughts about the non-secret give-aways. Also many people have said that secrecy was a problem, but not the main problem of this other give-away. NB: CCP has not answered the secrecy issue in a conclusive fashion because they have not yet explained how not making these give-aways public is justified.

Quote:
As several other people have said, SOMER were chosen primarily because they are, without any shadow of a doubt, THE most successful lottery site in EVE history. They may not be the longest running, but they've definitely made the most of what they've created. CCP have obviously looked at that success and said "Hey, they're the clear market leader, so let's use them to give out some stuff" because they have the capability of doing it and it getting to the largest playerbase.
As several other people have said, that's a terrible reason to hand out dev support to anyone.

Quote:
As Guard said, if your problem is that it's a "for-profit" site then nothing anyone says or does will satisfy your prejudice against them.
You're exactly right, if by "against them" you actually mean "against them receiving CCP support".

Quote:
If your problem is that 30 of the ships were given out, then who out of the 30 SOMER employees does CCP not give a ship to?
All 30 of them obviously.
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#447 - 2013-10-11 22:43:00 UTC
raven666wings wrote:
StuckAtTheLock wrote:

This is absolutely RMT. You can split hairs however you like but you can't deny that somer's model is to give up 200m isk to gain real cash.

The worst part is not that ccp sanctioned this action publicly- but they encouraged it and labelled it as the most deserving(helpful) community service project. Disgusting.


Well, look at it on the bright side. At least you have puppets like the CSM members and CCP Guard being sent to this thread by the chief marketing officer and company stakeholders to try and pour some water in the fire, just to close themselves in hearts and back out again when the real matters start being discussed Twisted


Well this is not the case. I have been spewing venomon on my coms and in trebors ear from days. DNSBlack is pissed Argus is pissed. CSM can only act on what CCP presents them. Trebor is repping us well believe me and seeing Ripard blog today says they are starting to get it. Don't blame the CSM for a CCP screw up. I have yet to read a post by a CSM member that has pissed me off if you have one that sides with CCP please show me. Ripards been given a pass so please don't link his initial step out of the sandbox

But by all means keep up the posting; I have enjoyed reading my fellow sandbox players dissenting opinions. The sad part is I truly care about these CCP employees as friends so all of this is very painful for me.
Kirren D'marr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#448 - 2013-10-11 22:46:50 UTC
Shad Duken wrote:
Kirren D'marr wrote:
Shad Duken wrote:
As several other people have said, SOMER were chosen primarily because they are, without any shadow of a doubt, THE most successful lottery site in EVE history. They may not be the longest running, but they've definitely made the most of what they've created. CCP have obviously looked at that success and said "Hey, they're the clear market leader, so let's use them to give out some stuff" because they have the capability of doing it and it getting to the largest playerbase.


It was more like, "Hey, they're the clear market leader, so let's cement that position by giving them a distinct advantage over their competition and drive even more people to their site. Oh, and an official endorsement of their reliability would help too!"



You missed the point where BIG Lottery got given the ship months before to promote their site.

Although I don't have facts and figures, I *can* categorically say that none of my friends in-game heard about BIG getting one of these ships (or any other promotions they've ever run) but everyone in my corp heard about SOMER's. Does that necessartily mean that BIG is inherently inferior to SOMER? NO. All it means is that more people have heard of and use SOMER than BIG.

As I postulated before, perhaps that added visibility was the reason SOMER was chosen this time around.


Actually, I was referring more to the unique ships given to use as lottery prizes, but nice try though.

Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.     _ - Kina Ayami_
Shad Duken
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#449 - 2013-10-11 22:58:16 UTC
Mitch's Forum Alt wrote:
Shad Duken wrote:
Kirren D'marr wrote:
Shad Duken wrote:
As several other people have said, SOMER were chosen primarily because they are, without any shadow of a doubt, THE most successful lottery site in EVE history. They may not be the longest running, but they've definitely made the most of what they've created. CCP have obviously looked at that success and said "Hey, they're the clear market leader, so let's use them to give out some stuff" because they have the capability of doing it and it getting to the largest playerbase.


It was more like, "Hey, they're the clear market leader, so let's cement that position by giving them a distinct advantage over their competition and drive even more people to their site. Oh, and an official endorsement of their reliability would help too!"



You missed the point where BIG Lottery got given the ship months before to promote their site.

Although I don't have facts and figures, I *can* categorically say that none of my friends in-game heard about BIG getting one of these ships (or any other promotions they've ever run) but everyone in my corp heard about SOMER's. Does that necessartily mean that BIG is inherently inferior to SOMER? NO. All it means is that more people have heard of and use SOMER than BIG.

As I postulated before, perhaps that added visibility was the reason SOMER was chosen this time around.

so, they recieved free 15bil (more like 20bil as that was the price during their insider trading period) ships for personal use (read: selling for profit) because they're the most visible. is that what you're saying?



Interesting question. I can only guess because none of us know 100% for sure (including the CSM unfortunately) that if you cut out all the layers of 'they've done this or that' then the answer to this may well be YES.

If you look further than the base-line answer at the reason they're so visible (prior to CCP Navigator's "Official Seal of Approval" - which is my only concern over this whole thing) then it's pretty easy to see why CCP is rewarding them.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#450 - 2013-10-11 23:00:17 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Bottom line is - the shots at CCP are called by people whose ultimate goal is to come up with the ultimate ways to rip you off. Hence the lack of transparency. They cannot tell you directly that they wanna rip you off, because if they did, the chances of accomplishing it would be diminuted Blink
Shad Duken
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#451 - 2013-10-11 23:05:08 UTC
Kirren D'marr wrote:

Actually, I was referring more to the unique ships given to use as lottery prizes, but nice try though.


As in the G-Vex/Gold Magnate issue that has been dealt with by their removal from the promotion? Yes, that was a massive mess created by CCP not thinking things through, but they dealt with it promptly and conclusively (at least as far as the prizes themselves matter)
Kirren D'marr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#452 - 2013-10-11 23:10:14 UTC
Shad Duken wrote:
Kirren D'marr wrote:

Actually, I was referring more to the unique ships given to use as lottery prizes, but nice try though.


As in the G-Vex/Gold Magnate issue that has been dealt with by their removal from the promotion? Yes, that was a massive mess created by CCP not thinking things through, but they dealt with it promptly and conclusively (at least as far as the prizes themselves matter)


No, it hasn't been dealt with. The prizes were not the issue; it was the huge uptick in traffic to SOMER Blink's website by people trying to get those prizes. SOMER made a killing off of that lottery, for no other reason than they were favored by CCP. And this was done to the detriment of any other EVE gambling site that is in competition with SOMER.

CCP tipped the scales of the in-game competion, and that balance has not been restored by their PR platitudes.

Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.     _ - Kina Ayami_
FuzzyButt
The Lazy Crabs
#453 - 2013-10-11 23:14:36 UTC
But i tought Somer was like Robin Hood? =)
Shad Duken
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#454 - 2013-10-11 23:16:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Shad Duken
Kirren D'marr wrote:

No, it hasn't been dealt with. The prizes were not the issue; it was the huge uptick in traffic to SOMER Blink's website by people trying to get those prizes. SOMER made a killing off of that lottery, for no other reason than they were favored by CCP. And this was done to the detriment of any other EVE gambling site that is in competition with SOMER.

CCP tipped the scales of the in-game competion, and that balance has not been restored by their PR platitudes.


Like they did with BIG 6 months ago without all this drama. Any explanation for that?

Edit: Just realised you were likely talking about the uptick in traffic due to the originally proposed prizes.

Yes, like I said that was a mistake by CCP. One that was impossible to change despite withdrawing the problem ships.

Anyone who has never made a mistake that can't be changed because it was too late, please raise your hands.... what, nobody? Well, who'd have thunk it?
Miss Ladybird
Doomheim
#455 - 2013-10-11 23:29:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Ladybird
I want to know why Somer isnt banned for RMT. He is converting isk value into real world currency value.

If CCP can confirm that his operation is legit, maybe more of us can get a slice of the cake?

How about, I make a website with the following rules:

1) I will sell you a 'Ladybird' bundle, that includes 1 plex and 1 ladybird token.

2) I receive real cash for this sale, and make real profit in my pocket.

3) You may use your ladybird token to buy ships from my Jita hanger, one token is worth 200m equivelent.






All good CCP?



Also, has anyone read the first response to the OP? It literally hits the nail right on the head and asks all the pertinent questions. It was totally ignored. TOTALLY.


the other thing is, the reason CCP probably isnt in trouble with the Gambling authorities is probably because this conduct in eve hasnt been reported formally yet.
StabThigh
Amarrshmellow
#456 - 2013-10-11 23:30:14 UTC
Shad Duken wrote:

Covering the "it's all RMTing because they make money off each referral" - so does every other site that refers you to a GTC site. CCP has clearly decided that this is acceptable for one reason or another (I'd guess because the site owners are having to pay RL cash for the sites?).


You missed the point. The point is not only that they make cash of each referrel, its that they offer isk for you to give them that cash.
Shad Duken
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#457 - 2013-10-11 23:34:09 UTC
StabThigh wrote:
Shad Duken wrote:

Covering the "it's all RMTing because they make money off each referral" - so does every other site that refers you to a GTC site. CCP has clearly decided that this is acceptable for one reason or another (I'd guess because the site owners are having to pay RL cash for the sites?).


You missed the point. The point is not only that they make cash of each referrel, its that they offer isk for you to give them that cash.


It's a fine line, but actually they offer you BLINK CREDIT - which is not an in-game item.
Mitch's Forum Alt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#458 - 2013-10-11 23:37:41 UTC
Shad Duken wrote:
StabThigh wrote:
Shad Duken wrote:

Covering the "it's all RMTing because they make money off each referral" - so does every other site that refers you to a GTC site. CCP has clearly decided that this is acceptable for one reason or another (I'd guess because the site owners are having to pay RL cash for the sites?).


You missed the point. The point is not only that they make cash of each referrel, its that they offer isk for you to give them that cash.


It's a fine line, but actually they offer you BLINK CREDIT - which is not an in-game item.

blink credit = isk
StabThigh
Amarrshmellow
#459 - 2013-10-11 23:43:19 UTC
Since you can cash out blink credit, I believe the proverbial line is crossed.

I mean, if CCP wants to do a vodoo-raindance around that fine line - well, I'd pay to see that.
Shad Duken
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#460 - 2013-10-11 23:48:26 UTC
Mitch's Forum Alt wrote:
Shad Duken wrote:
StabThigh wrote:
Shad Duken wrote:

Covering the "it's all RMTing because they make money off each referral" - so does every other site that refers you to a GTC site. CCP has clearly decided that this is acceptable for one reason or another (I'd guess because the site owners are having to pay RL cash for the sites?).


You missed the point. The point is not only that they make cash of each referrel, its that they offer isk for you to give them that cash.


It's a fine line, but actually they offer you BLINK CREDIT - which is not an in-game item.

blink credit = isk


Blink credit = blink credit.

The fact that it's portrayed in isk value is irrelevant. It's being used for ease of reference. They could equally use Ladybirds as the named currency, but that would confuse everyone.

Isk can be converted into Blink Credits, but Blink credits cannot be converted (directly) to Isk.