Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So I come with some graphs, but before I show them to you I need to do some explaining.

I use three ships in this graph.

The first is an RHML typhoon. It has T2 launchers, 3 BCS, Standard Crash on, along with 5% damage + Application implants.

The Second is a Cruise Typhoon. It has T2 launchers, 3 BCS, standard Crash, Along with 5% damgae + Application implants and TWO RIGORS

The Third is a RLML Cerberus. It has T2 launchers, 3 BCS, standard Crash, along with 5% damgae + Application implants

They are all shooting at non linked, mwd, shield tanked ships flying at full speed. The ships DPS shown, is that with out any assistance of TP's, Webs.

A final note before the graphs. The RHML ships do not sure precision ammo. The reason why I have done this, is because the range on unbonused precision ammo is about 28/30 K. When placed on a battle ship- you cannot wait that long to begin applying damage to something quickly approaching you. The range is too abysmally short to be used properly in any PvP situation, so I have disregarded it. Other than that, the numbers posted are the MAX amount of applied DPS i was able to achieve either using precision, CN, or fury missiles.

The first graph is a very straight forward bar graph, that will show direct numbers.

http://i.imgur.com/FECgN1k.png

Now what I find more interesting is this second graph. This graph shows the 'Effectiveness' of the three missile ships compared. As you can clearly see, RLML and Cruise Completely dominate the field. RHML are not superior to either missile system, shooting at any target. So my question is... why use them?

http://i.imgur.com/VP6gARl.png


After seeing the data, some of you may be wondering why I chose to use the dual rigor setup on the cruise, while not using it on the RHML. My answer is quite simple- If i am going to be throwing my rig slots on both ships for application purposes, why would I want to go with a lower DPS option? Personally if I am going to field a lower DPS weapon system, I want to be able to use the lowered fitting cost, it increase my tank.

In the case of the typhoon or the raven, throwing those rig slots away really bite into your tank. With out the application bonus applied to the RHML's using the as they are, is simply useless. Now- if the 5% innate damage application of the phoon, or the increased range of the raven did infant count towards the RHMLs, that could make a rather interesting game play choice.

What do you think CCP?

Chessur has thrown a RLML cerberus into his analysis and has messed with rigs and whatnot as well.

All my variables are standard, no variations for fits or implants, and only compare the battleship launchers. What you see in the title of the graphs that I posted is what you get. All are being shot at representative sizes and velocities from the Caldari ship tree. I don't really know what else to say, as my initial conclusion from the TMC article remains applicable even with the other variables factored in such as skills and tackle.

Not necessarily. I'd like to see the numbers with 2x T1 Rigors and 1x T1 Flare (since these aren't slated to affect RHMLs anyway).

All the QQ about these being overpowered is ridiculous. These will be fine. They're not comparable to RLML cruisers because battleships are significantly slower than cruisers (cruisers on the other hand when speed fit are only slightly slower than the average frig and usually faster than destroyers). With the kind of DPS these put out, a non-derpy pilot will always be able to escape a battleship if they want to.

Battleships in general also tend to be flown with support anyway with things that help them apply their damage. I mean the only time anyone really calls for a battleship is if they need something that tanks a lot and outputs at least 1k DPS. For solo work, existing cruisers already very easily output 500ish DPS, why would I risk a battleship to do that? The only time I see these being used for PVP IMO is nanophoon gangs, but any decent nanophoon gang has bellicose support anyway so...

As for ravens, I doubt a slow raven dishing out 500ish DPS at HML range is going to be OP for any half decent PvPer.

You hit the nail on the head. No one's going to be dropping from almost 1000 to 500 dps. RHML's still need the missile velocity, explosion radius and explosion velocity to even be considered on most missile-based battleships.

Found something that might be skewing your results a bit, Jayne.

Faction Cruise missiles have terrible application against anything smaller than a battlecruiser. So Precision Cruise missiles would make for a more accurate comparsion with RHMLs vs smaller stuff.

Unfortunately there are only so many variables I can calculate at the same time.

If I really wanted to do it again, I could only display which on the three ammo types for each individual weapon system would apply the most damage given the circumstance.... but that's effort. :P

But you're right, faction cruise will have less damage application than precision, in the same way that fury heavies will do more damage than faction in circumstances where the PME is already 100. You could argue it either way. That's the great thing about having multiple ammo types in your cargo! You can pick and choose depending on what situation you find yourself in.

Your numbers are interesting, but they only show that the Typhoon won't have a use for these RHML with application implants ; and that with a lot of things to apply missile damage, then RHML don't have that much of an advantage, which was rather obvious in fact : you can't apply more than you max damage, and you are not there, damage application thingy will rise your damage.

That's very interesting because that show exactly what Jayne Fillon is saying : RHML will be largely better than Cruise or Torp to shoot at smaller target but cruise and torp will still be good to apply dps to BS and painted/tackled targets.

The shortish range is interesting too because that make missiles work exactly the reverse of turrets which have less trouble hitting smaller targets at longer ranges whereas these RHML will hit them at closer ranges.

What do you NOT understand in the numbers of Chessur ? Just ask, I can answer. Just realize please that you need 25% bonus + implants + crash + 2 rigor rigs for cruise to apply their dps to smaller targets.

In fact, it's hardly a honest comparison unless you actually look carefully at all the circumstances of these numbers. Here, cruise will have almost the same explosion radius as heavy missiles, so no wonders the results, but not actually a fair comparison.

I guess it's max theoretical dps (against an immobile and very large thing).