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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1541 - 2013-10-10 00:34:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:

<-snip->
Your commentary on T3s probably should have stopped at the point where you admitted to not being experienced in them. As a Loki pilot, allow me to enlighten you a bit. Currently, highsec exploration as a whole is pointless in a T3; either the ships are denied entry at the acceleration gate or a smaller and faster ship is overwhelmingly better. Lowsec exploration is a little better for T3s, but not too much; you still see some gates that deny entry and the sites aren't particularly hard, meaning you don't really need that virus bonus. Furthermore, since it's lowsec, speed and agility are of the essence and a frigate always has more of these than any cruiser. The only place in lowsec where a T3 is truly useful are DED 5/10s and 6/10s. Lowsec is generally much more populated and thus much more dangerous than the vast majority of nullsec and so you'll find that a covops cloak is essential or possibly even required. The covops cloak, however, comes at the cost of significant DPS loss (in the case of the Legion it neuters your DPS into near-uselessness).

When you move into nullsec and WH exploration, you can start getting better usefulness out of your T3. The gates stop refusing to let you kill the rats beyond them and the sites are hard enough for that +10 strength to be something other than grossly overkill. If you add a nullifier onto that covops cloak because of bubbles, you suddenly find that you've slashed your T3's exploration ability - in some cases tremendously. Believe me, the parts of a T3 that people find to be broken are not the exploration-related ones. They're complaining about the nullifier, the command links, the tank a T3 can mount, the enormous DPS provided by the "popular" subsystems.

I hate seeing replies like these as the last ones on the previous page because they are so good they sometimes get overlooked. That said I do actually have stuff to contribute regarding T3s.

I've been living in whs for the last 3 or 4 months and have been having an absolute blast. Before this the majority of my income came form high sec exploration. I'd hop in my T3 and do all kinds of high sec shinanigans before Oddesey hit. It hit exploration quite hard in some places and was the catalyst for me moving to WH space. I loved my loki, being able to do 3/10s and 4/10s while also being able to run data sites. Luckily lokis are quite useful in WH space but the cheetah has been far more useful when going to the null pockets we get. They are usually dead quiet and can grab so many data sites.

SO where does the SOE ships come in? For one they will be amazing for high sec as they are pretty much the new high sec T3s. The frigs will handily replace my cheetah in most situations unless I want to go pure data can hunting (will sell it and never buy another one if the SOE ship gets +10 virus) and the Cruiser will be just the thing I need for low sec systems when we get quiet ones behind gate camps.

Then theres the fact I can now hunt down and kill other people with the SOE ship, especially those pesky bombers and covops. I will be that little bit safer, at the cost of some virus str, when doing null/low sites.

Also, although I did manage to survive a bubble gate camp in my cheetah today, I would have felt a lot more safer with the SOE frig and a flight of ECM/Shield rep drones.

Speaking of, I wonder if The SOE cruiser can solo C3s? It will be AMAZING in C2-C1 with salvage drones to clean up and sentries to bring the pain. Might even be better than my Loki.

There is so much that these things will be able to do there just isn't a way to give them 10 virus strength without taking away some of these things I've mentioned (and it's only a small list)

To be clear, a dev I think mentioned that if they do increase the virus on them they will have to reduce the combat on them. Then we'd be back to square one. We need something to shake up exploration. if this ship was in odesey it wouldn't have been nearly as bad.

The reason why I'd try and use the SOE cruiser instead of a T3 to do lowsec or C1-3 instead of my loki is simply because the loki is so damn expensive. properly fit you're looking at around 500mill. The SOE might be closer to 200 fit (I hope)

Can't wait for the Sisi reports on them to start coming out.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
MiMozO
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1542 - 2013-10-10 01:56:13 UTC  |  Edited by: MiMozO
Ohhh, I really liked my idea of utilizing defenders. CCP could create different types of those and let sisters ships launch them at attacking ships. Missiles would provide some damage and disabling, like EM missiles would jam for a short duration on a good hit, kinetic would mess with sensor strength or tracking, heat with reactor, explosive with propulsion. Could be interesting and would bring some use to defenders.
Aggressive defense.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1543 - 2013-10-10 03:48:28 UTC
Sen Starfire wrote:
That is a very good point; thanks for letting me know. What about coming at hacking from an entirely different angle; what if, instead of having a +5 or a +10, it has neither; instead, every four completed nodes, you "regenerate" 5 virus coherency? That might fit a lot more in the lines of the Sister's ideologies, and hopefully quell the argument with the +5/+10 virus strength, as well as provide an entirely new, and hopefully interesting, mechanic.

It is certainly an interesting mechanic, and without any kind of virus strength bonus it has potential. The only trouble I could see with it is a regeneration mechanic it could get to the point where one could not lose. All you would need to do is keep hitting empty nodes until you are maxed out on coherence (not sure if there is a max) and then do any other nodes you need to kill the datacore.

Unfortunately being so late into the expansion process it is likely to late for them to code such a feature.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1544 - 2013-10-10 04:02:49 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Sen Starfire wrote:
That is a very good point; thanks for letting me know. What about coming at hacking from an entirely different angle; what if, instead of having a +5 or a +10, it has neither; instead, every four completed nodes, you "regenerate" 5 virus coherency? That might fit a lot more in the lines of the Sister's ideologies, and hopefully quell the argument with the +5/+10 virus strength, as well as provide an entirely new, and hopefully interesting, mechanic.

It is certainly an interesting mechanic, and without any kind of virus strength bonus it has potential. The only trouble I could see with it is a regeneration mechanic it could get to the point where one could not lose. All you would need to do is keep hitting empty nodes until you are maxed out on coherence (not sure if there is a max) and then do any other nodes you need to kill the datacore.

Unfortunately being so late into the expansion process it is likely to late for them to code such a feature.


I admit I like notion of gaining coherency every so often as a bonus. Another potential bonus I've had in mind although it would require significantly more iteration be done on the hacking game is that a ship grant a total of 4 or even 5 utility slots in the minigame instead of the usual 3. This would be more useful if we could take utility items between minigames, as it was once stated we may eventually be able to.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1545 - 2013-10-10 04:05:49 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Sen Starfire wrote:
That is a very good point; thanks for letting me know. What about coming at hacking from an entirely different angle; what if, instead of having a +5 or a +10, it has neither; instead, every four completed nodes, you "regenerate" 5 virus coherency? That might fit a lot more in the lines of the Sister's ideologies, and hopefully quell the argument with the +5/+10 virus strength, as well as provide an entirely new, and hopefully interesting, mechanic.

It is certainly an interesting mechanic, and without any kind of virus strength bonus it has potential. The only trouble I could see with it is a regeneration mechanic it could get to the point where one could not lose. All you would need to do is keep hitting empty nodes until you are maxed out on coherence (not sure if there is a max) and then do any other nodes you need to kill the datacore.

Unfortunately being so late into the expansion process it is likely to late for them to code such a feature.


I admit I like notion of gaining coherency every so often as a bonus. Another potential bonus I've had in mind although it would require significantly more iteration be done on the hacking game is that a ship grant a total of 4 or even 5 utility slots in the minigame instead of the usual 3. This would be more useful if we could take utility items between minigames, as it was once stated we may eventually be able to.

I believe they (might) be working on the ability to keep any unused utility items you find and also sell them on the market.

Expanded utility slots would be a great addition for Covert Ops/Explotarion Frigates IMO

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1546 - 2013-10-10 05:08:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Tl;dr of the last 6 pages of this thread:
People who call themselves "explorers" but who cba to train exploration skills to V complain about good ships that can do everything except substituting for aforementioned training. Ability to run some of lowsec DEDs while also being fully ready to pick up mini-profession sites anywhere without refitting (these ships are bonused for armor for a reason, aren't they?) and carry more stuff is ignored just because they don't care.

While "T3 does the job better" is a good argument, currently specialized T3s do almost anything better than their T1/2 "role counterparts", nothing to see here.

I'm glad that this thread had moved on to more interesting stuff to discuss.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#1547 - 2013-10-10 06:25:19 UTC
Frankly, I'm more interested in these ships for their combat potential in Anoikis. The Astero as posted will be a nice light covops tackle, and the Stratios will be a great heavy tackle/DPS platform that's cheaper than a Tech3 cruiser.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave
MiMozO
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1548 - 2013-10-10 06:48:13 UTC  |  Edited by: MiMozO
Quote:
I believe they (might) be working on the ability to keep any unused utility items you find and also sell them on the market.

Expanded utility slots would be a great addition for Covert Ops/Exploration Frigates IMO

I think the difference in hacking between covert ops and Sisters, should be made not with virus strength bonus but rather a special ability of the last bunch. Like those additional utility slots, or gaining additional coherency for some events in mini game.

As for the combat side of the ship, my fantasies about aggressive defense went kinda wild, and it's all ended up with something strange, but interesting.

What if for a cruiser, for example we would have following bonuses and traits:
Role bonus:
_ +5(+10) virus strength (just to stop this holy war - pick the number you like more)
_ +50% to scan probe strength (can be less, but I just don't see the Sisters ship, which loosing in scanning ability to something)
_ ability to use defender missiles as a defending weapon (let's say Sisters ship can fire those missiles at any ships which have a lock on that Sisters ship. Those missiles do a bit of a damage, and can proc some short duration electronic disables sometimes, like short jam, capacitor recharge penalty, tracking/optimal range penalty/speed penalty etc.)
_ can NOT fit Warp Scrambles or Warp Disruptors / OR can not use those modules on ships which have no lock (This will take away the "initiator" status from the ship. It can defend it self and screw it's attackers in various ways, but it can not be used to hunt somebody down. Pure self-defense)
Gallente cruiser skill bonus:
_ +10% to drone hitpoints, +10% to NON combat drone effectiveness and +10%(+15%) to drone damage DEALT to drones per level (this is very interesting one. 10% of non combat drone effectiveness will give it even more ability to protect it self with disables, and 10% on damage dealt to drones means it can not pack that much of a punch in PvP, BUT is can deal good enough versus Sleepers and Rogue drones=merit for exploring, PLUS it can protect it self against drone boats, DPS of which can not be altered much with range penalties, or jams)
Amarr cruiser skill bonus:
_ +4% to armor resistances per level (the ship do need a bit of a tank)

To make it somewhat useful in PvP, it can even have some T1 support cruiser bonuses for remote shield/armor pump modules. It would make a medium level support you don't want to mess with directly. Yeah that a lot of different bonuses, but they said it should be versatile. P
MiMozO
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1549 - 2013-10-10 06:50:32 UTC
Quote:
Frankly, I'm more interested in these ships for their combat potential in Anoikis. The Astero as posted will be a nice light covops tackle, and the Stratios will be a great heavy tackle/DPS platform that's cheaper than a Tech3 cruiser.

The problem is, those ships were designed to be versatile exploration ships, with self defense capabilities. Or, at least we were told so...
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1550 - 2013-10-10 07:13:52 UTC
MiMozO wrote:
Quote:
Frankly, I'm more interested in these ships for their combat potential in Anoikis. The Astero as posted will be a nice light covops tackle, and the Stratios will be a great heavy tackle/DPS platform that's cheaper than a Tech3 cruiser.

The problem is, those ships were designed to be versatile exploration ships, with self defense capabilities. Or, at least we were told so...


It can potentially be argued that any kind of combat in W-space is effectively "self-defense", as you're defending your home from invaders.

On a more practical note, it's amazing the kind of armor tank you can field on a tackle ship when you don't have to bother yourself with silly things like worrying about DPS output.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1551 - 2013-10-10 07:39:40 UTC
Honestly the extra utiliity slot idea is so far the best one I have heard in this entire thread and one I can fully support especially if you can sell them later or if they are transferable from site to site. will make the minigame super easy though.

MiMozO wrote:
Quote:
I believe they (might) be working on the ability to keep any unused utility items you find and also sell them on the market.

Expanded utility slots would be a great addition for Covert Ops/Exploration Frigates IMO

I think the difference in hacking between covert ops and Sisters, should be made not with virus strength bonus but rather a special ability of the last bunch. Like those additional utility slots, or gaining additional coherency for some events in mini game.

As for the combat side of the ship, my fantasies about aggressive defense went kinda wild, and it's all ended up with something strange, but interesting.

What if for a cruiser, for example we would have following bonuses and traits:
Role bonus:
_ +5(+10) virus strength (just to stop this holy war - pick the number you like more)
_ +50% to scan probe strength (can be less, but I just don't see the Sisters ship, which loosing in scanning ability to something)
_ ability to use defender missiles as a defending weapon (let's say Sisters ship can fire those missiles at any ships which have a lock on that Sisters ship. Those missiles do a bit of a damage, and can proc some short duration electronic disables sometimes, like short jam, capacitor recharge penalty, tracking/optimal range penalty/speed penalty etc.)
_ can not fit Warp Scrambles or Warp Disruptors / OR can not use those modules on ships which have no lock (This will take away the "initiator" status from the ship. It can defend it self and screw it's attackers in various ways, but it can not be used to hunt somebody down. Pure self-defense)
Gallente cruiser skill bonus:
_ +10% to drone hitpoints, +10% to NON combat drone effectiveness and +10%(+15%) to drone damage DEALT to drones per level (this is very interesting one. 10% of non combat drone effectiveness will give it even more ability to protect it self with disables, and 10% on damage dealt to drones means it can not pack that much of a punch in PvP, BUT is can deal good enough versus Sleepers and Rogue drones=merit for exploring, PLUS it can protect it self against drone boats, DPS of which can not be altered much with range penalties, or jams)
Amarr cruiser skill bonus:
_ +4% to armor resistances per level (the ship do need a bit of a tank)

To make it somewhat useful in PvP, it can even have some T1 support cruiser bonuses for remote shield/armor pump modules. It would make a medium level support you don't want to mess with directly. Yeah that a lot of different bonuses, but they said it should be versatile. P

my only concern here is this would amount to artificially putting unique limitations on the ship and that is relatively rare as it stifles emergent game play and player generated content.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
MiMozO
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1552 - 2013-10-10 07:52:57 UTC
Quote:
It can potentially be argued that any kind of combat in W-space is effectively "self-defense", as you're defending your home from invaders.

With that way of thinking, you can put anything into that category. In nulls you are hunted by anyone, defend yourself by annihilating them before they defend themselves. )

Quote:
my only concern here is this would amount to artificially putting unique limitations on the ship and that is relatively rare as it stifles emergent game play and player generated content.

Well yes, those are artificial limitations, but a lot of ships have it at some extent. Not every ship can use disrupt probes for example.
These ships are special, why not to give them some special abilities and limitation. Besides, it limits ships only it terms of some common ways of tackling and attacking people. If you know how to use combat UTILITY and electronic warfare drones you can actually punish your attackers quite enough. )
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1553 - 2013-10-10 08:07:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
MiMozO wrote:
Quote:
It can potentially be argued that any kind of combat in W-space is effectively "self-defense", as you're defending your home from invaders.

With that way of thinking, you can put anything into that category. In nulls you are hunted by anyone, defend yourself by annihilating them before they defend themselves. )

Quote:
my only concern here is this would amount to artificially putting unique limitations on the ship and that is relatively rare as it stifles emergent game play and player generated content.

Well yes, those are artificial limitations, but a lot of ships have it at some extent. Not every ship can use disrupt probes for example.
These ships are special, why not to give them some special abilities and limitation. Besides, it limits ships only it terms of some common ways of tackling and attacking people. If you know how to use combat UTILITY and electronic warfare drones you can actually punish your attackers quite enough. )
my point is its unnecessary. I am all for a complicated game but doing so just because you want something to be special and cant do it through existing features, abilities or bonuses means its a lack of creativity on your side. Adding new and unique limitations to the game will only lead to bloat and a lot has been done the last few years do specifically reduce that bloat.

see if you can add interesting game play without resorting to unique mechanocs that have to be added. that is the sign of a good design. its also partly why the minigame wasnt received so positively.

that said if a unique mechanic adds enough to a game then sure but just for a single ship? dont think so.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
MiMozO
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1554 - 2013-10-10 08:35:41 UTC

Quote:
see if you can add interesting game play without resorting to unique mechanocs that have to be added. that is the sign of a good design. its also partly why the minigame wasnt received so positively.

While I do agree with you on many points, you should not forget that there are limitations on the game engine and game mechanics themselves. If we'll follow the rule of not adding anything new, we'll end up with game using limited possibilities in really weird ways to achieve something. I'm not implying that my mechanics is perfect. It has it's rough places, but you can't deny it look interesting, and very different from what we have. Should I stumble upon idea, how to create that "untouchable" flavor of the ship with existing methods I would suggest that one.
And I want to stress, that I don't speak about brand new stuff. Defender missiles do exist in the game, but those are not very useful right now. This mechanic could give them new life.

Quote:
that said if a unique mechanic adds enough to a game then sure but just for a single ship? dont think so.

Why should those ships be the only? It's a base idea, and can be applied with different flavors in future.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1555 - 2013-10-10 09:10:02 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
First of all Bouh, if you think 5 unbonused (for damage, anyway) light drones and no guns can crack the tank on one of those faction spawns whilst dodging fire from the rest of the rats in a 3/10, be my guest and try it. You'll die, by the way.

Man, I already said I was honoured to incarnate your inability to discuss anything with arguments, but eventhough I share some of the ideas of Omnatious, he's not me in any possible way.

I'm mean, if I were to reason like you, I would have to accuse you of being an alt of the other mad spammer completely unable to accept any different opinion of its own, but the sad truth is that when anyone have an idea, even if its the worst idea ever, some people will find it great. Sorry to break your fantasy world were I'm the only vilain existing.

Back to the topick, there was many arguments from a lot of people backing up my thought, but there wasn't any IMO, whereas the only arguments to favour the +10 virus bonus are "I want to fly this ship instead of covops" and false assertion of inability of a ship without +10 virus bonus to do nullsec sites.

On the other hand, Astero power with a flight of drones is really great already, moreover with these +20% hp/lvl which render them nigh unkillable. And if you think a flight of non damage bonused drones is harmless to frigates, you clearly haven't deal with one for a long time. These things eat frigates. There's a reason why a frigate will often deal with them before dealing with the actual target.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1556 - 2013-10-10 10:15:51 UTC
MiMozO wrote:

Quote:
see if you can add interesting game play without resorting to unique mechanocs that have to be added. that is the sign of a good design. its also partly why the minigame wasnt received so positively.

While I do agree with you on many points, you should not forget that there are limitations on the game engine and game mechanics themselves. If we'll follow the rule of not adding anything new, we'll end up with game using limited possibilities in really weird ways to achieve something. I'm not implying that my mechanics is perfect. It has it's rough places, but you can't deny it look interesting, and very different from what we have. Should I stumble upon idea, how to create that "untouchable" flavor of the ship with existing methods I would suggest that one.
And I want to stress, that I don't speak about brand new stuff. Defender missiles do exist in the game, but those are not very useful right now. This mechanic could give them new life.

Quote:
that said if a unique mechanic adds enough to a game then sure but just for a single ship? dont think so.

Why should those ships be the only? It's a base idea, and can be applied with different flavors in future.

the problem is you are introducing multiple new game mechanics that would take months of coding just to make one ship a special snowflake. the gain to work ratio is not viable and the concentration of new mechanics players will need to learn just because of one ship is also not fair. you will need to justify applying these mechanics to other ships to make it viable.

your best is to take one single new mechanic and reason how that one mechanic can be applied to multiple ships while staying balanced. if you want to be taken seriously focusing on single or small changes will be better than random expansive flights of fancy where every suggestion is bigger and more special than the previous.

that isnt to say that your sugestions are bad in any way but you have to expect some degree of doubt as to the viability of being able to implement even a single one of your sugestions. maybe look at the suggestion forum if you are serious about the defender missle thing.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1557 - 2013-10-10 11:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
First of all Bouh, if you think 5 unbonused (for damage, anyway) light drones and no guns can crack the tank on one of those faction spawns whilst dodging fire from the rest of the rats in a 3/10, be my guest and try it. You'll die, by the way.

Man, I already said I was honoured to incarnate your inability to discuss anything with arguments, but eventhough I share some of the ideas of Omnatious, he's not me in any possible way.

I'm mean, if I were to reason like you, I would have to accuse you of being an alt of the other mad spammer completely unable to accept any different opinion of its own, but the sad truth is that when anyone have an idea, even if its the worst idea ever, some people will find it great. Sorry to break your fantasy world were I'm the only vilain existing.

Back to the topick, there was many arguments from a lot of people backing up my thought, but there wasn't any IMO, whereas the only arguments to favour the +10 virus bonus are "I want to fly this ship instead of covops" and false assertion of inability of a ship without +10 virus bonus to do nullsec sites.

On the other hand, Astero power with a flight of drones is really great already, moreover with these +20% hp/lvl which render them nigh unkillable. And if you think a flight of non damage bonused drones is harmless to frigates, you clearly haven't deal with one for a long time. These things eat frigates. There's a reason why a frigate will often deal with them before dealing with the actual target.

Kaarous I regret that it really seems that trying to discuss anything is wasting breath (figuratively) ,when he has his wolf pack of alts, arguing amongst himself to make it seem that everyone agrees with him , and anyone outside his self generated wolf pack who disagrees and persists gets torn to shreds or if they fail in that,accused of being a mad spammer .
It took me a while before i realised that it was not just a couple of additional identities, but a swarm, I couldn't imagine how anyone could have a need to go to such lengths, or how it could possibly be allowed to come about.but hey ho there we go takes all sorts to ruin a world.
I have advised CCP that the forum is currently irredeemably broken, and no longer fit for purpose.
They of course will take whatever action they chose whenever they choose,and have the perfect right to do so.

Karrous this personal reply is for you, do not let them Get you stressed,even trying only gives him oxygen to play his forum PVP games
wolfpack of alts stay out of it, this post is NOT for you

Hopefully the forum will be returned to functionality, and be of use again.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Ambassador Spock
Doomheim
#1558 - 2013-10-10 11:59:38 UTC
I've been following this thread since day one and can I just say that when 90% of the past 20 pages are the same 3-4 people re-hashing the same idea over and over (and 50% of those are one guy...), maybe it is time for everyone to step back, shut up, and wait for CCP Rise to come back and give us some more info...

I love the ships as they stand now, but I don't think we can really have anymore reasonable discussion until CCP Rise comes back.

 --  - Ambassador Spock

"Vulcans never bluff."
Scorpionstrike
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1559 - 2013-10-10 12:04:55 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey wanted to check in again.

We've been talking about these ships quite a lot the last day or two and still aren't settled on making any changes. I think we're in a relatively good spot, which is great. We do have some minor concerns about the power level that comes with a resist bonus and a full drone bandwidth allocation. That said, with no projection or application bonuses and larger sig there's still no way the Stratios can compete with the Ishtar at a fleet level so it's just a matter of figuring out if it's too much at a smaller scale, which is debatable to say the least.

We are also talking about the virus strength issue and there's good arguments on both sides. I think any change here will wait until we decide about the rest of the ship and be made in relation to those changes (for instance if it lost any damage output it would seem very sensible to increase the virus strength).

For now, I want to let this sit a bit longer while we think things over and see how the sisi feedback plays out.

Thanks for the discussion!


I do not see why it would lose damage output if it's bonus for drones is hitpoints, not sure about the damage with the lasers though but having them would be very fun to use, i would be happy with being able to kill a battleship rat in null sec and to be able to do the combat sites with the ship and i see the damage contribution in pvp as support rather then solo and i would be fine with that as i would scout with it myself, the issue of the+5 or +10 virus i would be happy with either way i am sure the dev team will be fair in that regards, i just hope this ship comes out as ive been waiting for this for ages.
Tex Bloodhunter
SciFiCentral Explorations Inc.
#1560 - 2013-10-10 12:06:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tex Bloodhunter
Astero
- Currently only has 2 high power slots, 2 turret hard points
- Can only fit two guns, no cloak - alternatively cloak + probe launcher
- There is no cloaky combat fit possible at the moment - needs 4 high slots: cloak, probe launcher, 2 guns
- Does not have a probe launcher CPU bonus - can't fit expanded probe launcher
- Does not have a laser weapon bonus - no one will fit lasers to this ship
- Armor Resists on a cloaky frig (where defence = not being seen) seems unfitting

Also please mention if this ship can use black ops bridges and light covert cynos