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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1501 - 2013-10-09 20:06:19 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Sen Starfire wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Ok nothing wrong with the idea of both of those, god knows the minigame needs some love, I don't think Ccp ever intended it to be static and unimproved forever.
Just to clarify the way the game works is that strength killes the node, coherency defends against their attack after a failed attack if they still live. So if for example the node has a 30 defence and 40 attack (to keep it simple) you attack it with 30 strength (10 from ship plus 20 from analyzer the node dies, you move on to hunt the core.
If however you have 25 (5 from ship and 20 from analyser) You reduce it to 5 strength but you get hit with 40.
So it's not just 5 it is live or die.
Binary live or die it is that simple. Like nothing else in the game regarding a bonus.
Just best to keep the ship side bonuses out of the equation and suggest it as an improvement to the minigame,
Probably too late probably been pounced on by now the pack are probably tearing at their freshly blooded bunny rabbit.


My thoughts exactly; unlike adding strength, it would repair the coherency, much like the repair programs do currently when you uncover them on nodes. Just wanting to clarify how that idea might work, though it is far from perfect. Another possible idea would be some sort of way to have both ships work together, in the vein of the hacking support idea. It would be good to see a unique theme amongst such ships designed by the Sisterhood, aside from just aesthetics.

Working to broaden the lore, to make the game more immersive is a great goal,minigame definately needs a revisit, the whole binary strength thing is really distorting things, either or win lose, coherency while not irrelevant is of much much lesser importance than virus strength, and thats the one thing you cannot increase with rigs and modules.
Going to full T2 is a massive help but no progression in virus strength with skills either.

CCP dropped the ball i think there,and now they are in the boat where if they try to correct it,they will get swamped by a vocal group who scream won't someone think of the covert ops, the covert ops will die!!! (Again)
Far better to bite the bullet, rationalise ships into capable of hacking/not capable giving them ALL the same and then sort out the minigame and skills and only having the hysteria and screaming once. Rather than again and again whenever anything is even slightly changed or added to the game..
( I think this may possibly be disagreed with but frankly........)

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1502 - 2013-10-09 20:15:11 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Anize Oramara wrote:
OK lets look at the numbers shall we? Numbers afterall, dont lie :)

I use a cheetah for nullsec exploration. I used to only have lv4 hacking with t1 module and a single analizer rig. I'd say I was missing around 1 or two out of every 30 MAINFRAMES (these are the nullsec cans). I've never missed a com tower (low sec can) or the highsec one, not even once. But that's neither here nor there. I don't make a living off of nullsec exploration, just do it as a hobby when our WH ends up somewhere nice and quiet.

Cheetah
Minmi: 5% to projectile ROF and 10% OPTIMAL) (Dont have guns fitted)
No second bonus

Astero (SOE Frig)
Gallente: 20% bonus to drone hitpoints PER LEVEL ON A FULL FLIGHT OF DONES
Amarr: 4% bonus to Armor Resists

Huh well we can see who wins here. That ship is legit pvp and pve combat ready. Bet you it can do 2/10s without breaking a sweat.

Cheetah
Role bonus: +10 virus
Covert ops skill: 20% reduced CPU need for Cloaking Devices per level
Covert ops skill: 10% increase to scan strength of probes per level
Covert ops skill: 10% reduction to survey probe flight time per level (irrelevant to this discussion)

Astero (SOE Frig)
Role bonus: +5 virus (boo hiss)
Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requirement for cloaks
Role bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength

Ok so that's the 'role' bonus. Now, for having to train an entire extra skill (and having to train it to 4 at LEAST to beat Astero) I get 11.5% extra scan strength AT V! This can be made up by using cheap sister probes and a T2 launcher without having to train the skill to V (covops cloak requires IV) and is as a whole for decently skilled players irrelevant. Also the +5 virus strength that can be made up for if you are using T1s atm by training for T2s AND you get +5 extra that way. Cheetah edges out a slim victory here by virtue of it being it's T2 SPECIALITY.

Oh and I need cov ops 5 or the cloak nukes my cpu, haha :/

Cheetah
Defense (shields/armor/hull): 281 / 387 / 528
Fittings: 15 PWG, 275 CPU
Capacitor (amount) : 187.5
Targeting (range/Res/targets): 37km / 450 / 6
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Mobility (velocity/agility/mass/align): 381 / 3.77 / 1 430 000 / ?
Cargo Capacity: 200
Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L

Astero (SOE Frig)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540 / 600 / 600
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Targeting (range/Res/targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Mobility (velocity/agility/mass/align): 312 / 2.87 / 975 000 / 3.88s
Cargo Capacity: 210
Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L


Right so, again better in nearly every single way that I can see. Cheetah has a bit more speed though it wont save it. Every single other stat the Astero is better at it.

Now, Tell me again how the ONLY advantage it has over the SOE ship should be removed? Or should cov ops ships be resigned to the same pile the Primatae should be in? Haven't heard of that ship? Neither did I until a corp mate 2 days ago bought one for PI. Joke is the new PI indy does it better.

I'm all ears buddy.


Combat scanning is certainly a role the covert ops is specialised in, I feel strongly that the expanded probe launcher should not be able to be fitted to the astero without massive compromises, so severe that it would simply be a very expensive covert ops if it attempted that role.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1503 - 2013-10-09 20:19:37 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
OK lets look at the numbers shall we? Numbers afterall, dont lie :)

I use a cheetah for nullsec exploration. I used to only have lv4 hacking with t1 module and a single analizer rig. I'd say I was missing around 1 or two out of every 30 MAINFRAMES (these are the nullsec cans). I've never missed a com tower (low sec can) or the highsec one, not even once. But that's neither here nor there. I don't make a living off of nullsec exploration, just do it as a hobby when our WH ends up somewhere nice and quiet.

Cheetah
Minmi: 5% to projectile ROF and 10% OPTIMAL) (Dont have guns fitted)
No second bonus

Astero (SOE Frig)
Gallente: 20% bonus to drone hitpoints PER LEVEL ON A FULL FLIGHT OF DONES
Amarr: 4% bonus to Armor Resists

Huh well we can see who wins here. That ship is legit pvp and pve combat ready. Bet you it can do 2/10s without breaking a sweat.

Cheetah
Role bonus: +10 virus
Covert ops skill: 20% reduced CPU need for Cloaking Devices per level
Covert ops skill: 10% increase to scan strength of probes per level
Covert ops skill: 10% reduction to survey probe flight time per level (irrelevant to this discussion)

Astero (SOE Frig)
Role bonus: +5 virus (boo hiss)
Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requirement for cloaks
Role bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength

Ok so that's the 'role' bonus. Now, for having to train an entire extra skill (and having to train it to 4 at LEAST to beat Astero) I get 11.5% extra scan strength AT V! This can be made up by using cheap sister probes and a T2 launcher without having to train the skill to V (covops cloak requires IV) and is as a whole for decently skilled players irrelevant. Also the +5 virus strength that can be made up for if you are using T1s atm by training for T2s AND you get +5 extra that way. Cheetah edges out a slim victory here by virtue of it being it's T2 SPECIALITY.

Oh and I need cov ops 5 or the cloak nukes my cpu, haha :/

Cheetah
Defense (shields/armor/hull): 281 / 387 / 528
Fittings: 15 PWG, 275 CPU
Capacitor (amount) : 187.5
Targeting (range/Res/targets): 37km / 450 / 6
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Mobility (velocity/agility/mass/align): 381 / 3.77 / 1 430 000 / ?
Cargo Capacity: 200
Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L

Astero (SOE Frig)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540 / 600 / 600
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Targeting (range/Res/targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Mobility (velocity/agility/mass/align): 312 / 2.87 / 975 000 / 3.88s
Cargo Capacity: 210
Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L


Right so, again better in nearly every single way that I can see. Cheetah has a bit more speed though it wont save it. Every single other stat the Astero is better at it.

Now, Tell me again how the ONLY advantage it has over the SOE ship should be removed? Or should cov ops ships be resigned to the same pile the Primatae should be in? Haven't heard of that ship? Neither did I until a corp mate 2 days ago bought one for PI. Joke is the new PI indy does it better.

I'm all ears buddy.


Combat scanning is certainly a role the covert ops is specialised in, I feel strongly that the expanded probe launcher should not be able to be fitted to the astero without massive compromises, so severe that it would simply be a very expensive covert ops if it attempted that role.

I also believe that to have the same data and relic abilities as the covert ops It should also require the covert ops skill trained to turn them on to prevent it becoming a low entry point low skill covert ops. that would certainly be unfair.

Without those skills it should not share the same abilities.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Sen Starfire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1504 - 2013-10-09 20:20:15 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

CCP dropped the ball i think there,and now they are in the boat where if they try to correct it,they will get swamped by a vocal group who scream won't someone think of the covert ops, the covert ops will die!!! (Again)
Far better to bite the bullet, rationalise ships into capable of hacking/not capable giving them ALL the same and then sort out the minigame and skills and only having the hysteria and screaming once. Rather than again and again whenever anything is even slightly changed or added to the game..
( I think this may possibly be disagreed with but frankly........)


I most wholeheartedly occur. I was attempting to keep my ideas coherent with the ideas of the fittings of the ships themselves, though a much easier (and probably better) way of enabling a thematic approach would be to broaden the exploration minigame. I most assuredly carefully balance what I can kill in one hit, and what would take two or more. Maybe supporting modules that function as the assisting node programs already in the hacking minigame?
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#1505 - 2013-10-09 20:20:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Combat scanning? You mean that thing a T3 can also do?

The base stats would STILL make the Astero a better combat scanning ship even without the bonus.

So how about the rest? You have no answer to everything else? Giving the Astero +10 virus scan will completely eradicate the only way to make money with cov ops as the Astero does it better in Every. Single. Way.

Hell looking at it as it is now I see no reason to fly a cov ops over an Astero. Though I really wouldn't mind having the Astero as is right now. It's going to be glorious and the +10 would just be plain overkill.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1506 - 2013-10-09 20:30:19 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Anize Oramara wrote:
Combat scanning? You mean that thing a T3 can also do?

The base stats would STILL make the Astero a better combat scanning ship even without the bonus.

So how about the rest? You have no answer to everything else? Giving the Astero +10 virus scan will completely eradicate the only way to make money with cov ops as the Astero does it better in Every. Single. Way.

Hell looking at it as it is now I see no reason to fly a cov ops over an Astero. Though I really wouldn't mind having the Astero as is right now. It's going to be glorious and the +10 would just be plain overkill.

That is understandable, also from an explorers point of view it would be crazy to take an astero over a covert ops at the moment, paying more to take a ship that does it's core role less well would make no sense.I also understand why you would be reluctant to hope that the ship rebalancing the covert ops is due would give it new life, that has not always been the case.
Currently though,The covert ops will still be able to do everything it did before and will benefit greatly from the new warp changes.the ship is losing none of it's capabilities.

This whole virus strength binary kill no kill business of the minigame creates just these issues, if it was something like 5 or 10 percent shield or armor repair or whatever, not a big issue but virus strength do or not do, win or not win, sucks. Out of all proportion.
Problem is these would just become combat ships or hangar queens. Who in their right mind would use a subpar ship instead of the covert ops for exploring, and as for PvE a warping cloak does nothing for PvE.
Personally i think the SOE ships should not be able to fit a combat scanner, they should require at least the same skills as the covert ops,or have the currently proposed limited scanning and hacking skills until the skills are gained,the astero should be at least twice as expensive as the covert ops.

I know the price difference seems small to some but the skills and price are what stops everyone using covert ops currently. Lots more exploration frigates around.
T3's are a really different issue, I am not experienced in them but the general opinion is that they are currently broken anyway.I cannot see them losing the cloak and exploration abilities though either way, but again the price and skill differentiation still applies.
There are only a limited number of choices here
1 covert ops owners win,Totally
2 explorers win, Totally
3 A common ground is found where both win.
If we can find a common ground, it will be of benefit to all.I continue to try and find one.
Please read post 1382 see if you can add to it from the covert ops side.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#1507 - 2013-10-09 21:32:23 UTC
All this just to justify +5 extra virus str when for the low low price of 10d you can train for T2 analyzer and BAM you got 10! extra virus.

This whole thing is really hilarious once you get down to the core of your shenanigans. You just don't want to train 10 days for T2 hacking. 60+ pages of, whatever this is just for that?

No, no I think the saying 'It's not about the destination, but about the journey' applies here.

It's not about the game...

It's about the forum LolLol

Oh man, you totally got me hehe.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1508 - 2013-10-09 21:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Anize Oramara wrote:
All this just to justify +5 extra virus str when for the low low price of 10d you can train for T2 analyzer and BAM you got 10! extra virus.

This whole thing is really hilarious once you get down to the core of your shenanigans. You just don't want to train 10 days for T2 hacking. 60+ pages of, whatever this is just for that?

No, no I think the saying 'It's not about the destination, but about the journey' applies here.

It's not about the game...

It's about the forum LolLol

Oh man, you totally got me hehe.

Dear God,preserve my sanity and protect me from those who will not see.
let me put this in one short sentence. The expensive, pretty nice ships will never ever ever have the ability to be the ship of choice, no matter how fitted, with rigs t2 skills implants, the covert ops will always be the best ship always get it! Fit t2 to both covert ops, fit implants, covert ops ,train every skill on the planet, covert ops.
Why would an explorer use these ships, covert ops does it better.
If you do not wish to find a common ground, good luck, wait for the coin toss.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1509 - 2013-10-09 21:42:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Quote:
Now, Tell me again how the ONLY advantage it has over the SOE ship should be removed? Or should cov ops ships be resigned to the same pile the Primatae should be in? Haven't heard of that ship? Neither did I until a corp mate 2 days ago bought one for PI. Joke is the new PI indy does it better.

I'm all ears buddy.


Because the Cheetah, along with the rest of the cov ops frigates, is desperately in need of a rebalance, and the release of the Sisters ships is clear evidence of that?

Gimping the SoE ships for the sake of T2 frigates that are also gimped in their current state makes no sense. +10 for the SoE ships can lead the way to actually balancing these damn things.

Yes, the +10 virus strength is just about the only thing that a T2 cov ops has over the SoE ships. That's because the T2 cov ops frigs suck. And that's no reason to make the SoE ships worse.

[Edit: Oh, and if you can't spell Primae correctly, don't use it as an example.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1510 - 2013-10-09 21:46:16 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Now, Tell me again how the ONLY advantage it has over the SOE ship should be removed? Or should cov ops ships be resigned to the same pile the Primatae should be in? Haven't heard of that ship? Neither did I until a corp mate 2 days ago bought one for PI. Joke is the new PI indy does it better.

I'm all ears buddy.


Because the Cheetah, along with the rest of the cov ops frigates, is desperately in need of a rebalance, and the release of the Sisters ships is clear evidence of that?

Gimping the SoE ships for the sake of T2 frigates that are also gimped in their current state makes no sense. +10 for the SoE ships can lead the way to actually balancing these damn things.

Yes, the +10 virus strength is just about the only thing that a T2 cov ops has over the SoE ships. That's because the T2 cov ops frigs suck. And that's no reason to make the SoE ships worse.

[Edit: Oh, and if you can't spell Primae correctly, don't use it as an example.


Thank you for the voice of sanity, it was feeling like me against the forces of .....? Never mind lol
Every time i get suckered in, start explaining trying to find a reasonable solution then bam same old same old.
How on earth do they all have the same attack technique?Is there a troll school somewhere?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1511 - 2013-10-09 21:52:29 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Thank you for the voice of sanity, it was feeling like me against the forces of .....? Never mind lol
Every time i get suckered in, start explaining trying to find a reasonable solution then bam same old same old.
How on earth do they all have the same attack tecnique?


Honestly, it's starting to feel like Deja Vu thanks to the fact that Bouh and his alts are here. Page after page of him arguing that the Abaddon, the Raven, and the Typhoon need to be nerfed because the Hyperion sucks. God that got old fast.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1512 - 2013-10-09 21:58:58 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Thank you for the voice of sanity, it was feeling like me against the forces of .....? Never mind lol
Every time i get suckered in, start explaining trying to find a reasonable solution then bam same old same old.
How on earth do they all have the same attack tecnique?


Honestly, it's starting to feel like Deja Vu thanks to the fact that Bouh and his alts are here. Page after page of him arguing that the Abaddon, the Raven, and the Typhoon need to be nerfed because the Hyperion sucks. God that got old fast.

They really should ban these type of posters not just from the forums either, message would get round real fast, how do you get a reasoned discussion about these ships through to Ccp? I feel so sorry for CCP Rise, he has to deal with this insanity all the time, you couldn't pay me enough.

CCP RISE you deserve a medal, a bottle of whiskey and a good night out with the Miss world touring group.

Make a good decision and they'll stay a week, and bring refills.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#1513 - 2013-10-09 22:01:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Thank you for the voice of sanity, it was feeling like me against the forces of .....? Never mind lol
Every time i get suckered in, start explaining trying to find a reasonable solution then bam same old same old.
How on earth do they all have the same attack tecnique?


Honestly, it's starting to feel like Deja Vu thanks to the fact that Bouh and his alts are here. Page after page of him arguing that the Abaddon, the Raven, and the Typhoon need to be nerfed because the Hyperion sucks. God that got old fast.

Kaarous used Redirect!

It had no effect!

Roll

ps. I think CCP has heard that you want +10 virus str, it''s not really a big secret.

But then, maybe if you post it one more time they will change their minds? Worth a try maybe?

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1514 - 2013-10-09 22:06:13 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Thank you for the voice of sanity, it was feeling like me against the forces of .....? Never mind lol
Every time i get suckered in, start explaining trying to find a reasonable solution then bam same old same old.
How on earth do they all have the same attack tecnique?


Honestly, it's starting to feel like Deja Vu thanks to the fact that Bouh and his alts are here. Page after page of him arguing that the Abaddon, the Raven, and the Typhoon need to be nerfed because the Hyperion sucks. God that got old fast.

Kaarous used Redirect!

It had no effect!

Roll

ps. I think CCP has heard that you want +10 virus str, it''s not really a big secret.

But then, maybe if you post it one more time they will change their minds? Worth a try maybe?

Spam,spam,spam,spam,spam,spam,glorious spam,spam,spam...

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1515 - 2013-10-09 22:10:40 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Thank you for the voice of sanity, it was feeling like me against the forces of .....? Never mind lol
Every time i get suckered in, start explaining trying to find a reasonable solution then bam same old same old.
How on earth do they all have the same attack tecnique?


Honestly, it's starting to feel like Deja Vu thanks to the fact that Bouh and his alts are here. Page after page of him arguing that the Abaddon, the Raven, and the Typhoon need to be nerfed because the Hyperion sucks. God that got old fast.

Looks like he gets a good kick out of trolling, now that i have confirmed is a bannable offence,
Here goes wish me luck.Wonder how many alts they have found so far.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1516 - 2013-10-09 22:11:12 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Thank you for the voice of sanity, it was feeling like me against the forces of .....? Never mind lol
Every time i get suckered in, start explaining trying to find a reasonable solution then bam same old same old.
How on earth do they all have the same attack tecnique?


Honestly, it's starting to feel like Deja Vu thanks to the fact that Bouh and his alts are here. Page after page of him arguing that the Abaddon, the Raven, and the Typhoon need to be nerfed because the Hyperion sucks. God that got old fast.

Kaarous used Redirect!

It had no effect!

Roll

ps. I think CCP has heard that you want +10 virus str, it''s not really a big secret.

But then, maybe if you post it one more time they will change their minds? Worth a try maybe?


Because your post is constructive and has substance, right?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Gurlstas Associates
#1517 - 2013-10-09 22:11:45 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Now, Tell me again how the ONLY advantage it has over the SOE ship should be removed? Or should cov ops ships be resigned to the same pile the Primatae should be in? Haven't heard of that ship? Neither did I until a corp mate 2 days ago bought one for PI. Joke is the new PI indy does it better.

I'm all ears buddy.


Because the Cheetah, along with the rest of the cov ops frigates, is desperately in need of a rebalance, and the release of the Sisters ships is clear evidence of that?

Gimping the SoE ships for the sake of T2 frigates that are also gimped in their current state makes no sense. +10 for the SoE ships can lead the way to actually balancing these damn things.

Yes, the +10 virus strength is just about the only thing that a T2 cov ops has over the SoE ships. That's because the T2 cov ops frigs suck. And that's no reason to make the SoE ships worse.

[Edit: Oh, and if you can't spell Primae correctly, don't use it as an example.

The SOE ships are not gimped, the do several roles quite well. Please try to scan a 3/10 and take your covert ops frigate into it and complete it, bet you cant but the SOE frigate can. Diminishing reutrns are a part of eve, paying a large amount for a samll gain is very common.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1518 - 2013-10-09 22:14:38 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Now, Tell me again how the ONLY advantage it has over the SOE ship should be removed? Or should cov ops ships be resigned to the same pile the Primatae should be in? Haven't heard of that ship? Neither did I until a corp mate 2 days ago bought one for PI. Joke is the new PI indy does it better.

I'm all ears buddy.


Because the Cheetah, along with the rest of the cov ops frigates, is desperately in need of a rebalance, and the release of the Sisters ships is clear evidence of that?

Gimping the SoE ships for the sake of T2 frigates that are also gimped in their current state makes no sense. +10 for the SoE ships can lead the way to actually balancing these damn things.

Yes, the +10 virus strength is just about the only thing that a T2 cov ops has over the SoE ships. That's because the T2 cov ops frigs suck. And that's no reason to make the SoE ships worse.

[Edit: Oh, and if you can't spell Primae correctly, don't use it as an example.

The SOE ships are not gimped, the do several roles quite well. Please try to scan a 3/10 and take your covert ops frigate into it and complete it, bet you cant but the SOE frigate can. Diminishing reutrns are a part of eve, paying a large amount for a samll gain is very common.

Please bring all your alts out, why make it any harder for CCP than needed, you obviously feel immune from their actions, bring them all to the party and show off.Let me know how that works out for you? Ah if they ban you you can't can you.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1519 - 2013-10-09 22:18:17 UTC
Quote:
Please try to scan a 3/10 and take your covert ops frigate into it and complete it, bet you cant but the SOE frigate can


First of all Bouh, if you think 5 unbonused (for damage, anyway) light drones and no guns can crack the tank on one of those faction spawns whilst dodging fire from the rest of the rats in a 3/10, be my guest and try it. You'll die, by the way.

Second of all:

Quote:
Diminishing reutrns are a part of eve, paying a large amount for a samll gain is very common.


Within a ship class, yes. Outside of or between ship classes, no. That much is obvious from actually playing the game. Nevermind that T2 cov ops frigates and pirate frigates are not the same ship class.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1520 - 2013-10-09 22:18:33 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Please bring all your alts out, why make it any harder for CCP than needed, you obviously feel immune from their actions, bring them all to the party and show off.Let me know how that works out for you? Ah if they ban you you can't can you.
Is the concept that more than one person disagrees so far fetched to you?