Player Features and Ideas Discussion

With 4 launchers you are looking at 97 DPS with fury light missiles, out to 30km.

In my opinion,
Cargo Scanner II
Relic Analyzer II
Data Analyzer II
10mn Microwarpdrive II/10mn Afterburner II
Medium Capacitor Booster II (Cap Booster 200)

These ships look a lot like Caldari/Minmatar ships, shouldnt they be shield tanked at least? I mean they dont have that bulky hull of the Gall/Amarr.

That is not a possible conclusion to draw at this point as we know nothing about the Deopt.

You're quite correct. There is no way to upgrade these ships to completely obsolete a Covert Ops ship at its specialized role, nor should there be. These are neither CovOps ships nor T3s and they should not be equal to or better than them at what they do.

I don't know if you've been paying attention to any of the Tiericide threads or any of the T2 Rebalancing threads, but a common and core theme amongst them is that a ship should not step on the proverbial toes of any other ship unless it's absolutely necessary and in no cases should one ship ever completely obsolete any other ships, no matter what.

Please don't say "Pilgrim", as the ship hasn't been rebalanced yet and will likely see a redesign given the direction other ships have gone.

As they stand, these SoE ships are dangerously close to obsoleting Covops, Recons, AFs and HACs - and their do-it-all bonuses combined with no SP loss on ship destruction stands to make them capable of obsoleting T3s for exploration as well. The only things holding them back are their lack of a CPU bonus for expanded launchers, the cruiser's lack of a cloak CPU bonus, the lack of a sensor recalibration bonus and the +5 virus strength instead of +10. All very good pre-nerfs that need to remain firmly in place no matter what.

I'll lay it out for you very carefully:

T2 ships are given bonuses that specialize them to be powerful in their role and significantly less useful outside of it.

Covops ships are T2 - They have very powerful probing and analyzing bonuses but they cannot engage in any meaningful combat.

Recon ships are T2 - They have very powerful probing bonuses (some even have covert cloaks) as well as some bonuses to EWAR. Half of them have role bonuses toward cynos. They do not have analyzing bonuses and their combat bonuses are not as strong as a HAC.

AFs and HACs are both T2 - They have combat bonuses. They have tank bonuses. They have role bonuses towards mobility in battle. They pay for this by having no probing bonuses, no analyzing bonuses and no cloaks.

T3s - These are difficult to comment on, but not too difficult. When you bonus your T3 for exploration, you get a powerful bonus to probing and analyzing but your lock range, lock time and resistance to jamming are all worse than if you'd chosen a more combat-focused set of bonuses. When you choose a covops capability for your T3, you do so at the expense of damage output; covops subsystems have abysmal DPS compared to the others. The only thing a T3 has that other ships cannot match, the nullifier, comes at the cost of a lowslot. A covops-nullified T3 has extreme power but also extreme drawbacks.

This is the way it works and the way it should be.

Let's stop trying to return T2 ships to worthlessness after Fozzie, Rise and Ytterbium have been spending so much time to make them useful:

• No +10 strength that you don't even need in order to hack in null.
• No stepping on every other ship's toes just because these are pirate ships.
• No obsoleting cheaper ships just because they're cheaper.

These SoE ships are bonused for everything; they should pay for it by never being as good at any one thing as a corresponding T2 ship. No T2-level bonuses on a T1-level ship.

Period.

I like the fact that you can do several things in the one ship with the cov ops cloak that is great, i think its fair to make the pve side of the ship strong and the pvp side of it more defensive but still able deploy drones and weapons to be able to get involved in pvp if that is what your corp-mates are doing which i think is great as well, this game really does need a lower tier ship as the jump from frigate to tech 2, 3, was a very big jump in terms of training and cost, finally there is now a ship i can get into as i like stealth play a lot :-)

Thanks Rise.

These two ships have basically removed all my frustration wit solo exploration. Now I don't have to plant combat ready ships all over New Eden just to investigate combat anomalies.

Good job

An Ishtar's heavies track and move like mediums, your Ishtar isn't fighting for its role, but if you have one, your Proteus is.

I agree entirely.

Will the cargo hold be able to hold a new Depot-deployable?

Edit: These look fantastic. and with the depots I really don't see the need for the "2/4/4 should be 4/4/4" etc...
They should be expensive though. I mean since they contain secret SoE sleeper tech and such ;)