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Best Non-Pirate L4 boat?
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Reginald Canterbury
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-10-05 13:52:25 UTC
I mean, I see a lot of people who use Ravens for L4s, myself included (at least I did back then), but then it got me thinking: is the Raven really the absolute best L4 boat?

Currently, I am training for an Apocalypse Navy Issue but I'm having second thoughts. I'm not sure if I should just drop the training queue for it and just work on getting a full T2 Raven Navy Issue. Any thoughts?

Oh, and Machariels are out of the question. At least for the meantime.
Bibosikus
Air
#2 - 2013-10-05 14:01:25 UTC
Isk for isk, a sentry Domi is worth considering; with the recent Domi drone buff, Garde II's put more dps out to a better optimal, with better tracking and zero ammo usage, than any other weapons platform.
The drawback is ofc that they're stationary so you can't drift between gates as you apply dps.
If you're running Serp missions, an Ishtar is excellent, now with the same buffs.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-10-05 18:00:53 UTC
Tempest is way OP. Megathron can't be beat. Raven is way über. Also Abaddon.

ib4 "you can run L4s in a Drake," "Tengu ftw" and "I'm too dumb to read an entire OP and you should deffo get a Mach."
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-10-05 19:30:53 UTC
T2 Raven should be more than good enough.
Train for the apoc afterwards as well anyway, extra options are always useful.
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-10-05 21:03:26 UTC
Scorpion navy issue... same DPS as a CNR better tank.
Fia Magrath
The Clown Inquisition
#6 - 2013-10-05 21:07:52 UTC
uhm, the obvious answer is golem.
Maethilar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-10-05 22:06:08 UTC
EvEa Deva wrote:
Scorpion navy issue... same DPS as a CNR better tank.


Can you show the 2 fits? Because in EFT I always get less DPS from SNI than from CNR.

Thanks.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-10-06 12:32:18 UTC
Maethilar wrote:
EvEa Deva wrote:
Scorpion navy issue... same DPS as a CNR better tank.


Can you show the 2 fits? Because in EFT I always get less DPS from SNI than from CNR.

Thanks.


Its not really hard (after the latest Navy BS rebalance)

Scorpion Navy:
6 launchers, with a 25% cycle time reduction: 6/0.75 = 8 It has 8 effective launchers at lvl 5
It has 5 lows to fit BCUs, same as a CNR will fit (no point in fitting more than 4)
It also has 75 drone bandwidth, same as the CNR
and 1 utility high, which can be a turret.


CNR:
8 launchers, no ROF or damage bonus (but rather an explosion radius bonus, for better applied DPS on smaller targets)
5 lows to fit BCUs, same as a SNI will fit (no point in fitting more than 4)
It also has 75 drone bandwidth, Same as the SNI

So, for any fit using the same drones, and same number of BCUs, with max skills, and all launcher slots filled, the SNI and CNR will have the same paper DPS, the CNR will do more applied DPS to small targets though.

However... the SNI can actually do more DPS, by fitting a gun in its 7th high.


That said... I will also +1 the Domi, the navy domi to a lesser extent, and the Vargur. (the Paladin is nice, as long as you go up against EM/Th weak enemies)a
Zoltan Lazar
#9 - 2013-10-06 13:10:09 UTC
MJD Sentry Domi cannot be beat.

Quote:
[Dominix, L4 Sentry Blitz Cheap]

Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines
Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Drone Scope Chip I


Hammerhead II x5
Garde II x5
Ogre II x5
Hobgoblin II x5



250m as fit, can easily be pimped.

Hits 800 DPS at 100km with Gardes.
Jena Jamson
Archangels 13
#10 - 2013-10-06 13:42:21 UTC
Tengus. Agile, high damage, and small sig radius.
Reginald Canterbury
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-10-06 13:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Reginald Canterbury
Jena Jamson wrote:
Tengus. Agile, high damage, and small sig radius.

What about a Legion?
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#12 - 2013-10-06 16:37:38 UTC
Reginald Canterbury wrote:
Jena Jamson wrote:
Tengus. Agile, high damage, and small sig radius.

What about a Legion?



Legion has 1 damage type, from medium weapons only. There must be at least 15 ships that would be better.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-10-06 17:50:14 UTC
I love the Scorpion Navy Issue and its a great ship... It will also do about the same DPS on EFT as the Raven Navy Issue. The thing is EFT doesn't tell the whole story...

The 10% bonus to velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius per level of Caldari Battleship on the Raven Navy Issue makes it do more actual DPS.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-10-06 18:06:29 UTC
Typhoon fleet issue is the end to all these debates every time if you're looking at DPS.

Of course, not cheap and high skills required.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#15 - 2013-10-06 19:13:36 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Typhoon fleet issue is the end to all these debates every time if you're looking at DPS.

Of course, not cheap and high skills required.


TFI is beast.

[Typhoon Fleet Issue, Damsel]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Photonic CPU Enhancer I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field

Drone Link Augmentor I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
True Sansha Heavy Nosferatu

Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x10
Hobgoblin II x5
Garde II x5


Rigged for Gallante space.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#16 - 2013-10-06 20:09:10 UTC
IIshira wrote:
I love the Scorpion Navy Issue and its a great ship... It will also do about the same DPS on EFT as the Raven Navy Issue. The thing is EFT doesn't tell the whole story...

The 10% bonus to velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius per level of Caldari Battleship on the Raven Navy Issue makes it do more actual DPS.


plus with a 75/100 drone bandwidth/bay I can fit 3 sentries and have a flight of light drones. I really like the CNR as it is powerful and flexible. Golem is pretty similar, a little less flexible, although damn that target painter bonus.

domi is incredible for the cost, but I'm not sure it counts as a best of.

paladin is superduper especially against em/therm, and with bastion mode and rebalancing coming soon™ it is getting even better (and imo the bastion mod doesn't really even do much for the paladin).

I have a character that would be perfect in a fleet phoon, but I haven't gotten around to playing with it. on paper it looks awesome.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Isinero
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-10-06 21:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Isinero
I like tengu now (65km with heavy assault, nice damage, incredible tank, small radius and very fast :-D) and you can quickly traint skills for it, because it requires only medium and its easier to get than large weapons ....

But I think that new marauders will be interesting

and then sentry boats, but I dont like to be stationary and still take care about drones so thats why I am not fly it :-D (new marauders will be able to put out same dps (even more) and jump more often)

I also have a legion but ...... TENGU >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LEGION for PvE :-) Its sad but its truth ....

BTW. Its not so hard to train machariel too ... typhoon fleet issue with shields was also pretty interesting
I never tried it and its very very very expensive :-)
But I believe that somethink like that can work too :-)

[Typhoon Fleet Issue, Typhoon Fleet Issue fit]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Shield Boost Amplifier II
Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Core C-Type 100MN Afterburner

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
[Empty High slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I


Ogre II x5


Zainou 'Snapshot' Cruise Missiles CM-605
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Energy Management EM-805
Zainou 'Deadeye' Target Navigation Prediction TN-903
Zainou 'Deadeye' Rapid Launch RL-1005

I Just quickly try to fit it and I believe that there will be better ways but ...

800 active shield tank
1010 missile damage
468 heavy drone damage
490 speed with afterburner
practically cap stable with 80 km range

I would say that this will go through missions like through butter and whats the best you will still have a space for medium and light drones. I would take probably only light drones and heavy drones :-)

and disadvantage of that super expensive fit is that you will be nice target for suicide gangs :-D with pretty low effective HP :-D
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-10-06 22:17:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Its expensive if you have a mentalist fit like that.

[Typhoon Fleet Issue, Budget]

6x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Cruise Missile)
Drone Link Augmentor II

Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Co-Processor II
2x Drone Damage Amplifier II
2x Ballistic Control System II
2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

3x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

5x Garde II
5x Hammerhead II
5x Hobgoblin


Adjust rigs to T2 to taste. Pimp the mods to taste. Alter hardeners if you like, I dont bother because this thing is like the hand of a vengeful god. The above fits no dramas and no implants at not quite perfect skills.

Edit and before the "no prop mod waaaaaaaambluance" pulls up, I use a different boat for travel requiring missions. The missions with a minor gate crawl, the cruise DPS until I pull up and park is quite satisfactory.

And heavies? PvE? No.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2013-10-06 22:25:29 UTC
IIshira wrote:
I love the Scorpion Navy Issue and its a great ship... It will also do about the same DPS on EFT as the Raven Navy Issue. The thing is EFT doesn't tell the whole story...

The 10% bonus to velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius per level of Caldari Battleship on the Raven Navy Issue makes it do more actual DPS.


Rigs and 2xTP's on the SNI changes the picture.. so your comment is also EFT warrior'ing Blink
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-10-06 22:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
It doesnt change it. There were extensive math posts around the time the hulls change, the ONLY cruise hull that rivals the CNR for DPS gotten down is the TFI (and TFI wins) and...maybe a golem, cant remember, it was an outsider in the converstations anyway and now its changing.

Edit: The SNI isnt a million miles awawy, but (imo) the only reason to fly one is if being lazy to abuse tank, or sub-par skills to need its tanking facets to get by. It's nice to be sure, but in the DPS race, it is an "also ran".
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