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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Darth Felin
Monkey Attack Squad
Goonswarm Federation
#181 - 2013-10-02 19:03:39 UTC
4 medium slot are enough for armor tanker even if you will add scanning/hacking modules but 5 lows are not enough for any meaningful tank + damage mods. 6 low will greatly improve this ship.

P.S.
But even in current iteration this ship is overpowered above any reasons, and you called Angel ships "too good". IMHO 5 medium bonused drones + bonused highslots (change cap bonus for damage one please) will be more than enough.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#182 - 2013-10-02 19:04:28 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The best slot layout would have to be 4/5/6.
The +5 virus strength is plenty, for null one would usually be better off with a T3 due to the interdiction nullifier.
The laser bonus I suspect will go mostly unused. But could be wrong.


I disagree. 5/5/5 is good, there is no reason to change things around. Especially since you can just lug your mobile depot around to refit on the fly in a safe spot. Besides be honest, you only think 4/5/6 is better because you use it for you favourite fit or something.

5/5/5 and shield tanked will get you nearly 1k dps and decent tank still while being able to fly around cloaked (needs a cpu implant and some meta modules). by moving a high to a low, it cuts a decent amount of damage off or prohibits you from being able to warp around cloaked.


But the main purpose of those new cruisers is exploration, so they need the additional HighSlot to stay viable. Besides, if you move one HighSlot down to Low, it still doesn't change anything DPS-wise. People will simply start using a good-looking laser ship like a drone boat. In which case you could cut down HighSlots to two and it wouldn't change the drone dps one bit.
Vincent Ageon
Phoenix Administration
#183 - 2013-10-02 19:05:51 UTC
Dehval wrote:
Vincent Ageon wrote:

7)Laser cap reduction, I assume I'm in the same boat as everyone else as I seem to missing what the reduction in cap would actually be needed for and think most would assume its not and just end up using autocannons anyways. Was there something in the module setup that I missed? Why is the extra cap needed? 4% armor bonuses is awesome and true to the Amarr side of things. Armor rep would be more on the Gallante side but that would make "save as much cap" viable. Perhaps instead of a reduced cap bonus the cruiser can use a nuet bonus instead to shut off warp scrams and the like. That makes the reduced cap need for the lasers viable, uses up a high slot so its not so DPS heavy, allows the ship better survivability if it might escape, and gives it an interesting application in versatility to pvp fleets as everyone loves. The bonus would be small, sure and would definitely not match that of a cruiser designed for the role of neutering in pvp but idk. worth some thought.

Can't really give neut bonuses or you would basically have an (almost) all around better version of the Pilgrim. We really don't need ships stepping on each other's toes as is. I more or less agree with everything else.




It wouldnt be a heavy bonus. Maybe a static roll role bonus or the removal of an actual hard point. The idea behind it would be that for a ship designed for the role that a curse or a pilgrim fit already, they would stay the viable choice. But not suggesting folks fit something cap heavy (in regards to the reduced cap bonus for laser) doesn't even make lasers a sensible option when you can just load up the obvious winning choice o turrets.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#184 - 2013-10-02 19:06:08 UTC
Darth Felin wrote:
4 medium slot are enough for armor tanker even if you will add scanning/hacking modules but 5 lows are not enough for any meaningful tank + damage mods. 6 low will greatly improve this ship.

P.S.
But even in current iteration this ship is overpowered above any reasons, and you called Angel ships "too good". IMHO 5 medium bonused drones + bonused highslots (change cap bonus for damage one please) will be more than enough.


The ship is too overpowered for your taste, and you want to fit a stronger tank? Can I have the drugs you are on? P
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#185 - 2013-10-02 19:06:16 UTC
Shut up and take my money

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#186 - 2013-10-02 19:06:26 UTC
+5 Hacking isn't enough to make it shine in it's chosen area. I get what your thinking but honestly, i'd consider raising it if you want to see them used for any extended length of time rather than that occasional collectors piece you take out as your bored.

Empyrean Warriors - Recruiting now.
Luka 583
Sleeper Cell Syndicate
#187 - 2013-10-02 19:08:40 UTC
I am also wondering if we can expect a SoE BS hull?

IMO as an explorer, Lasers are great merely because they require zero ammunition.. just the virtually massless crystals. On long deployments ammo restocking can get tricky.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2013-10-02 19:09:50 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The best slot layout would have to be 4/5/6.
The +5 virus strength is plenty, for null one would usually be better off with a T3 due to the interdiction nullifier.
The laser bonus I suspect will go mostly unused. But could be wrong.


I disagree. 5/5/5 is good, there is no reason to change things around. Especially since you can just lug your mobile depot around to refit on the fly in a safe spot. Besides be honest, you only think 4/5/6 is better because you use it for you favourite fit or something.

5/5/5 and shield tanked will get you nearly 1k dps and decent tank still while being able to fly around cloaked (needs a cpu implant and some meta modules). by moving a high to a low, it cuts a decent amount of damage off or prohibits you from being able to warp around cloaked.


But the main purpose of those new cruisers is exploration, so they need the additional HighSlot to stay viable.

As an exploration ship it needs mids, not highs. as a drone ship it doesn't need highs. As an armor ship it needs lows.

But people can and will use this ship for what ever they want to use it for. it will be a real sweet low sec mission ship because of its ability to fly around cloaked and still have good dps.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#189 - 2013-10-02 19:10:01 UTC
ConranAntoni wrote:
+5 Hacking isn't enough to make it shine in it's chosen area. I get what your thinking but honestly, i'd consider raising it if you want to see them used for any extended length of time rather than that occasional collectors piece you take out as your bored.


+1

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Abdul Secheh
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#190 - 2013-10-02 19:11:07 UTC
plz no drones, plz... there's enough of droneboats atm.
lazers plz
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#191 - 2013-10-02 19:13:58 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Rise
A small change in the original post - The Astero has 20% drone hp per level, not 10% drone hp/tracking. This was actually just a mistake I made when copying the post over by grabbing an older version of the bonuses. Sorry about that.

In general there's a lot of good feedback coming in already of course and I'm already imagining and beginning to discuss version two with the CSM and Fozzie etc. (looking closely at the drone bandwidth/bay, CPU situation and hacking capability of the cruiser especially) but I want to give plenty of time for us to think it through and let you guys discuss in detail before any changes are made.

In the mean time keep the feedback coming and we'll give you updates as they come.

@ccp_rise
Freako X
Doom Inc
#192 - 2013-10-02 19:14:16 UTC
I love them to be honest.

I'd tweak a couple of things:

Frigate: 1 more high slot and possibly allow for launchers? Amarr drone boats tend to have launchers.
Cruiser: swap out cap usage for something else. I'm still fond of a logisitc theme considering the SOE mission for humanitarian activities. Optimal could work too as people could use with default racial preferences. I think the armor resist and sensor str type is enough to call it 'amarr'.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#193 - 2013-10-02 19:15:52 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The best slot layout would have to be 4/5/6.
The +5 virus strength is plenty, for null one would usually be better off with a T3 due to the interdiction nullifier.
The laser bonus I suspect will go mostly unused. But could be wrong.


I disagree. 5/5/5 is good, there is no reason to change things around. Especially since you can just lug your mobile depot around to refit on the fly in a safe spot. Besides be honest, you only think 4/5/6 is better because you use it for you favourite fit or something.

5/5/5 and shield tanked will get you nearly 1k dps and decent tank still while being able to fly around cloaked (needs a cpu implant and some meta modules). by moving a high to a low, it cuts a decent amount of damage off or prohibits you from being able to warp around cloaked.


But the main purpose of those new cruisers is exploration, so they need the additional HighSlot to stay viable.

As an exploration ship it needs mids, not highs. as a drone ship it doesn't need highs. As an armor ship it needs lows.

But people can and will use this ship for what ever they want to use it for. it will be a real sweet low sec mission ship because of its ability to fly around cloaked and still have good dps.


And as a lazor-ship it needs Highs for maximum face-melting power. Pirate

I agree with the second part, though.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2013-10-02 19:16:55 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
A small change in the original post - The Astero has 20% drone hp per level, not 10% drone hp/tracking. This was actually just a mistake I made when copying the post over by grabbing an older version of the bonuses. Sorry about that.

20% drone HP, that's nuts. I like it, it makes up for the no damage bonus.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
sXyphos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2013-10-02 19:29:01 UTC
The ships look very good overall, the only thing i don't like is the laser bonus on the cruiser, perhaps replace it with something else? i generally like versatility in exploration ships, and since it's main dmg comes from drones i don't really need another weapon system bonus.
I suppose a drone control range bonus is wishful thinking, but really give it anything except a specific weapon bonus, 100m cargo/level idk, virus/data str bonus, whatever just don't "force" me to put lasers on it just to not lose a bonus.Our dmg comes primarily from drones, the rest should be irrelevant. Ugh
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#196 - 2013-10-02 19:31:42 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Igor Nappi wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

'*snip*
  • Drone and laser weapon systems with large cargo and drone bays so that you don't have to go home often

    • Stratios

    Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need

    *snip*


    I think you meant drone and projectile (or hybrid for mad EFT deeps) weapons systems. Nobody used lasers on eg. Mallers before the tiericide gave it a damage bonus.



    Only the people with brain use leasers you mean. Stop looking at raw dps numbers and check the real projection of damage.

    I woudl love the current bonus exaclty because so many clueles people would fit AC on them makign them utter pathetic.


    Without any kind of damage bonus will use whatever weapon they like best. The specifics of damage application or weapon effectiveness wont matter.

    for example despite the laser bonus I will end up using hybrids.


    Hybrids are less bad than AC on an unbonused ship. But lasers have higher base damage and higher range than other turrets and with the cap usage bonus they use LESS capacitor than hybrids.

    So far I've seen nobody agree with you and several people disagree with you. Please give up your crusade now, it's obviously not something anybody else cares about.

    AC's are good because of selectable damage type, low fitting requirements, average tracking, average range, no cap usage, and still are a contribution to damage. No weapons are bonused, so clearly the turrets are secondary to the bonused drones and immense bay and bandwidth (cap use bonus doesn't count. Still takes more cap to shoot lasers than hybrids and obviously ACs). This means I'm going to spend as little fitting on the guns as possible (ACs) or get the most damage at my preferred range as possible (blasters for close, ACs for up to 10km due to the previously listed reasons, or rails for anything more). Plain and simple, they're merely secondary to the drones on the ship.


    There. Simple.
    Arthur Aihaken
    CODE.d
    #197 - 2013-10-02 19:33:38 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    In the mean time keep the feedback coming and we'll give you updates as they come.

    Is there a SoE battleship planned?

    I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
    Twisted Chick
    Sebiestor Tribe
    #198 - 2013-10-02 19:35:15 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    A small change in the original post - The Astero has 20% drone hp per level, not 10% drone hp/tracking. This was actually just a mistake I made when copying the post over by grabbing an older version of the bonuses. Sorry about that.

    In general there's a lot of good feedback coming in already of course and I'm already imagining and beginning to discuss version two with the CSM and Fozzie etc. (looking closely at the drone bandwidth/bay, CPU situation and hacking capability of the cruiser especially) but I want to give plenty of time for us to think it through and let you guys discuss in detail before any changes are made.

    In the mean time keep the feedback coming and we'll give you updates as they come.


    Thank You for the update \o/

    Title: She who hunts Pandas

    "Remember you can't spell Slaughter without Laughter!"

              ~Pinkamena Diane Pie~
    epicurus ataraxia
    Illusion of Solitude.
    Illusion of Solitude
    #199 - 2013-10-02 19:38:14 UTC
    Keep all the drone bonuses,drone bay, drop all weapons slots apart from something to draw aggro. Make it drone weapons plus sleeper drone aggro resist.
    Amarr armor bonuses good,

    Think ninja rather than samuri.

    Come from nowhere and you WILL take notice lol

    Great you are taking account of exploring virus levels.


    This will not make it. Just another pew pew ship. Those that want that have more than enough choices.

    This will set it well apart in a class of it's own. A true exploration force.

    There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
    PotatoOverdose
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #200 - 2013-10-02 19:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
    Laser cap usage is one of the most useless bonuses in the game. How many people fly a cloaky laser legion? Zero.
    Because all it has is the cap bonus.

    Replace it with something else please. Damage bonus, tracking bonus, literally ANYTHING would be better than a cap bonus. Put another way, if I fit it with auto cannons/artillery I have just as many effective bonuses as if I fit it with lasers.

    The frigate looks good. Could probably use another high (See: the least used covops is the helios).

    For Exploration, no one will use these as a +10 bonus is significantly better than a +5 bonus. That's just a simple fact. They'll be decent for pvp though.