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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Author
Jezs
This is not the corporation you are looking for
#221 - 2013-10-02 20:23:00 UTC
At least you didn't copy the models directly from sword of the stars.
Syrinx Arktemis
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#222 - 2013-10-02 20:34:06 UTC
Why not add:

Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% reduction in CPU need for cloaking devices per level.

to the cruisers as a 'bonus?' IE if you had the Recon Ships skill, you cloaks would be easier to fit, but it wouldn't be a requirement to fly the ship?
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#223 - 2013-10-02 20:39:12 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Whatever you design someone will try to make it a pew pew ship.


EVE is a PvP game. The tools of peace you give unto us shall be reforged for the tools of war. Science to empower man shall be used to destroy him.

Let's commonly say no to ships dedicated to PvE and consider this thing's ability to dish out some pain. I wouldn't say go for a damage bonus for turrets too, no - just expand fitting options. You're still free to fit cloak/probes/single gun, but your enemy has the option to fit cloak + guns only. Options, options - it's all about the options.

Perhaps, if lasers are being encouraged - give it a bonus to laser cap usage like the cruiser has, to have some benefit out of mounting them?

In any case, a covert ops cloak is an essential module. Having to sacrifice turret slots to install a cloak on a cloaky ship sort of prompts the question: why are you flying a cloaky ship? The only viable answer, I guess, is that you're troll fit and are baiting Dramiels and other combat nonsense with a Dramkiller fit.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#224 - 2013-10-02 20:39:32 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Xequecal wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Laser cap usage is one of the most useless bonuses in the game. How many people fly a cloaky laser legion? Zero.
Because all it has is the cap bonus.

Replace it with something else please. Damage bonus, tracking bonus, literally ANYTHING would be better than a cap bonus. Put another way, if I fit it with auto cannons/artillery I have just as many effective bonuses as if I fit it with lasers.

The frigate looks good. Could probably use another high (See: the least used covops is the helios).

For Exploration, no one will use these as a +10 bonus is significantly better than a +5 bonus. That's just a simple fact. They'll be decent for pvp though.


This is absurd, you get the bonus for free. Half-cap lasers are better than ACS, all else being equal.

But all things are not equal, you have a covops cloak meaning you dictate initial engagement range. In that situation acs are superior with higher dps up close, better tracking, damage type selection, cap independance, and easier fittings.

Like I said, you never see cloaky laser legions for many, many reasons.

Edit: fixed typos from phone
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#225 - 2013-10-02 20:45:36 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Part of the goal was to create a somewhat self sufficient ship in these designs so large bays were somewhat of a given. I'm not sure how that makes this ship terribly OP in that respect. We already have 3 125mbit cruisers so comparisons to BC bandwidth are irrelevant unless you are suggesting that the Ishtar, NVexor and Gilla are OP as is. They all have drone damage bonuses as well. Granted the combination of a covert cloak on top on the other advantages has not been done before, you've already pointed out that fitting somewhat tapers this advantage.
Oh forgot one more thing, this monstrosity has more guns than any other 125mbit cruiser. Seriously mate, if you don't see how all of those singular attributes combine to make a grossly overpowered battleboat, then there isn't really much more I can say.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#226 - 2013-10-02 20:48:17 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
The cruiser missing the Cloak CPU bonus is intentional, the CPU is set with that in mind.


I see where the purpose here was, because you can fit the Covert Ops Cloak for a travel fit, and bring along the Mobile Deployable Depot, to refit for combat once you get out to deep space. If you're going to use it in hotdrop fleets and use the Covert Ops cloak constantly, then you trade off your damage potential, but I'm not sure how useful it will be with the CPU restrictions... I guess that'll take some fitting tests.

I'm just hoping the 550m3 cargo will be enough to carry your combat fitting modules to swap out, the depot (and strontium I expect), and all of your loot from an extended trip. I guess the question is - what is an extended trip? A couple of days? Personally I don't think it will be enough space, and you'll be forced to bring out a Blockade Runner as well to haul everything out:


  • I can fill up a covert ops frigate (150m3) currently after running only one or two Data/Relic sites, if you pick up the items out of the materials containers (very bulky). Normally you have to leave those and only collect salvage, datacores, blueprints, and decryptors.

  • If you're running combat sites or anomalies and salvaging, and picking up Meta4 items, you'll run out of space again very quickly, so you have to pick and choose which items to take.

  • If you also want to bring along a few of the new siphon modules, and then bring back some stolen moon minerals, those are also pretty bulky.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#227 - 2013-10-02 20:48:26 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Laser cap usage is one of the most useless bonuses in the game. How many people fly a cloaky laser legion? Zero.
Because all it has is the cap bonus.

Replace it with something else please. Damage bonus, tracking bonus, literally ANYTHING would be better than a cap bonus. Put another way, if I fit it with auto cannons/artillery I have just as many effective bonuses as if I fit it with lasers.

The frigate looks good. Could probably use another high (See: the least used covops is the helios).

For Exploration, no one will use these as a +10 bonus is significantly better than a +5 bonus. That's just a simple fact. They'll be decent for pvp though.


This is absurd, you get the bonus for free. Half-cap lasers are better than ACS, all else being equal.

But all things are not equal, you have a covops cloak meaning you dictate initial engagement range. In that situation acs are gar superior with higher dps up close, better tracking, damage type selection, cap independance, and easier fittings.

Like I said, you never see cloaky laser legions for many, many reasons.


I think the main reason those ships aren't getting a damage bonus is the fact they're covert. CCP deliberately stated that they don't want them being equal to actual combat-focused ships - and covert cloaks are quite powerful tools on their own, if used right. They let you avoid unwanted fights and, as you pointed out, pick the initial engagement range.

That said, the cap bonus isn't exactly great, I'd love to see a damage (maybe raw damage, not RoF...) one here and finally a viable laser covert boat. Because hey, lasers pew pew.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2013-10-02 20:52:38 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Part of the goal was to create a somewhat self sufficient ship in these designs so large bays were somewhat of a given. I'm not sure how that makes this ship terribly OP in that respect. We already have 3 125mbit cruisers so comparisons to BC bandwidth are irrelevant unless you are suggesting that the Ishtar, NVexor and Gilla are OP as is. They all have drone damage bonuses as well. Granted the combination of a covert cloak on top on the other advantages has not been done before, you've already pointed out that fitting somewhat tapers this advantage.
Oh forgot one more thing, this monstrosity has more guns than any other 125mbit cruiser. Seriously mate, if you don't see how all of those singular attributes combine to make a grossly overpowered battleboat, then there isn't really much more I can say.

It has the same number of turret points as the Ishtar, and the Gilla has equal missiles to turrets of both. The guns similarly are not damage bonused. again, I conceed the covert cloak may be pushing it, but the bays only increase the length of combat viability at best. The combat capacity still remains the same.
The Sinister
Eve Minions
Silentium Consortium
#229 - 2013-10-02 20:52:49 UTC
No ofense CCP:

1. The Frigate really needs a 3rd Hi slot.

2. The cruiser needs that Cloak CPU bonus ( The freaking thing uses 100 CPU)

( the cruiser witout the Cloak CPU bonus will be a nightmare to fit and the Frigate without a 3rd Hi Slot will have pussy DPS)

JUST SAYING!

Dehval
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#230 - 2013-10-02 20:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Dehval
Did some basic EFT warrioring for this ship using basic math. Ship Bonuses be damned.

Blaster Fit Gank Machine

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

10MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Needs a +3% CPU implant to fit.

Ogre II x5

Highlights

Dps with Following*

  1. Void - 1127, 3.4+3.1km
  2. CN Antimatter - 1098, 2.3+6.3km
  3. Null - 1032, 6.3+8.8km
*Subtract 148dps if switching to Berserker II's.

EHP = ~35k give or take. 12k shield HP.

Speed = ~500m/s with AB. I am bad at mobility maths.

Given we weren't given regen stats on the capacitor, eyeballing it says it will be cap stable with everything running (It has more base cap than most Amarr cruisers).

Regardless, I think that is a bit ridiculous for a Cruiser sized hull. Even if the application range is horrible the fact that it is a cloaky means it gets to pick its fights. And this thing can probably beat out most battleships.

If you want to go Armor + EWAR, I don't feel like posting the fits but you can get about 45k EHP, room for a web, TD, and free midslot for whatever. No CPU implant needed. Only about 850 dps top end however.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#231 - 2013-10-02 20:56:31 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Whatever you design someone will try to make it a pew pew ship.


EVE is a PvP game. The tools of peace you give unto us shall be reforged for the tools of war. Science to empower man shall be used to destroy him.

Let's commonly say no to ships dedicated to PvE and consider this thing's ability to dish out some pain. I wouldn't say go for a damage bonus for turrets too, no - just expand fitting options. You're still free to fit cloak/probes/single gun, but your enemy has the option to fit cloak + guns only. Options, options - it's all about the options.

Perhaps, if lasers are being encouraged - give it a bonus to laser cap usage like the cruiser has, to have some benefit out of mounting them?

In any case, a covert ops cloak is an essential module. Having to sacrifice turret slots to install a cloak on a cloaky ship sort of prompts the question: why are you flying a cloaky ship? The only viable answer, I guess, is that you're troll fit and are baiting Dramiels and other combat nonsense with a Dramkiller fit.


With one turret where you could fit battleship class weapons if you choose, you might have to gimp everything else to make it fit, but it would certainly make your target wake up,before the drones arrive,however you have become a glass canon to do this, so you can pew pew but now theres a risk.......

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#232 - 2013-10-02 20:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ConranAntoni
Hm, possible but most likely unpopular suggestion;

Regarding the hacking bonus, why not make it 2% per a level bonus per one of the racials. Lets be honest here, with it being only 5%, most people will ignore it unless their desperate or as mentioned earlier, collection piece. I know this is ignoring the circle jerk over it's current other "attributes" but figured I'd put it out there.

As, y'now, it is an exploration vessel with some teeth.

Empyrean Warriors - Recruiting now.

PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#233 - 2013-10-02 21:00:19 UTC
Dehval wrote:
Did some basic EFT warrioring for this ship using basic math. Ship Bonuses be damned.

Blaster Fit Gank Machine

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

10MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Needs a +3% CPU implant to fit.

Ogre II x5

Highlights

Dps with Following*

  1. Void - 1127, 3.4+3.1km
  2. CN Antimatter - 1098, 2.3+6.3km
  3. Null - 1032, 6.3+8.8km
*Subtract 148dps if switching to Berserker II's.

EHP = ~35k give or take. 12k shield HP.

Speed = ~500m/s with AB. I am bad at mobility maths.

Given we weren't given regen stats on the capacitor, eyeballing it says it will be cap stable with everything running (It has more base cap than most Amarr cruisers).

Regardless, I think that is a bit ridiculous for a Cruiser sized hull. Even if the application range is horrible the fact that it is a cloaky means it gets to pick its fights. And this thing can probably beat out most battleships.



Shocked If it comes out like that, **** my cloaky proteus, Blaster Stratios FTW. BTW, this is why it needs a proper laser bonus if you want it used as a laser boat.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#234 - 2013-10-02 21:07:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
PotatoOverdose wrote:
But all things are not equal, you have a covops cloak meaning you dictate initial engagement range. In that situation acs are superior with higher dps up close, better tracking, damage type selection, cap independance, and easier fittings.

Like I said, you never see cloaky laser legions for many, many reasons.

Laser bonus is there on this thing only for them to be useable at all if you want a ship that uses no ammo (although with how new explo plexes work I doubt people would want that).

If you want to pew with it, use other guns. You are very welcome to do so with a ship that has no important bonuses for specific weapon system.

That said, Stratios looks rather sick. I bet I'll be seeing nightmares after having a glimpse on what SoE battleship will be like. If it will be made ofc...
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#235 - 2013-10-02 21:07:58 UTC
ConranAntoni wrote:
Hm, possible but most likely unpopular suggestion;

Regarding the hacking bonus, why not make it 2% per a level bonus per one of the racials. Lets be honest here, with it being only 5%, most people will ignore it unless their desperate or as mentioned earlier, collection piece. I know this is ignoring the circle jerk over it's current other "attributes" but figured I'd put it out there.

As, y'now, it is an exploration vessel with some teeth.


I like the bonus per level idea but should start at 5% and add 2% per level of covert ops. Otherwise covert ops skill becomes redundant.

My idea is that if you want the high alpha of a stealth bomber in a turret, you should suffer the same risks. Apart from that it is a drone boat and use the single turret choice according to your resources and what slots you are going to give up to make that choice. That turret could recieve amarr bonuses.creating a ship with a rack of turrets and a mass of drones is truly a split weapons system and either overpowered or good at neither job.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#236 - 2013-10-02 21:09:22 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
But all things are not equal, you have a covops cloak meaning you dictate initial engagement range. In that situation acs are superior with higher dps up close, better tracking, damage type selection, cap independance, and easier fittings.

Like I said, you never see cloaky laser legions for many, many reasons.

Edit: fixed typos from phone


You don't see cloaky Legions because they have no damage bonus at all. If the Loki had its covops damage bonus replaced with a tracking bonus nobody would use them either. It's not because ACs are better than lasers. This ship has its full complement of bonuses, the laser one is just a free extra one.

Also, ACs deal less damage than lasers even close up, they track better which might make them apply DPS better depending on the target but if you're shooting a BC or higher the lasers will always do more DPS.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#237 - 2013-10-02 21:12:04 UTC
Dehval wrote:
Did some basic EFT warrioring for this ship using basic math. Ship Bonuses be damned.

Blaster Fit Gank Machine

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

10MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Needs a +3% CPU implant to fit.

Ogre II x5

Highlights

Dps with Following*

  1. Void - 1127, 3.4+3.1km
  2. CN Antimatter - 1098, 2.3+6.3km
  3. Null - 1032, 6.3+8.8km
*Subtract 148dps if switching to Berserker II's.

EHP = ~35k give or take. 12k shield HP.

Speed = ~500m/s with AB. I am bad at mobility maths.

Given we weren't given regen stats on the capacitor, eyeballing it says it will be cap stable with everything running (It has more base cap than most Amarr cruisers).

Regardless, I think that is a bit ridiculous for a Cruiser sized hull. Even if the application range is horrible the fact that it is a cloaky means it gets to pick its fights. And this thing can probably beat out most battleships.

If you want to go Armor + EWAR, I don't feel like posting the fits but you can get about 45k EHP, room for a web, TD, and free midslot for whatever. No CPU implant needed. Only about 850 dps top end however.


Shag me sideways, this thing's rocking some serious claws, fangs and brass balls to boot. Agreed this is why it needs a laser damage bonus.

...and this is a stark reminder as to why you don't put shieldtank-level amounts of midslots on armor boats... THEM LOW SLOTS!

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#238 - 2013-10-02 21:14:20 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Xequecal wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
But all things are not equal, you have a covops cloak meaning you dictate initial engagement range. In that situation acs are superior with higher dps up close, better tracking, damage type selection, cap independance, and easier fittings.

Like I said, you never see cloaky laser legions for many, many reasons.

Edit: fixed typos from phone


You don't see cloaky Legions because they have no damage bonus at all. If the Loki had its covops damage bonus replaced with a tracking bonus nobody would use them either. It's not because ACs are better than lasers. This ship has its full complement of bonuses, the laser one is just a free extra one.

Also, ACs deal less damage than lasers even close up, they track better which might make them apply DPS better depending on the target but if you're shooting a BC or higher the lasers will always do more DPS.

Read dehval's post. If autocannon's won't be used, blasters will. Either way, lasers won't be the first choice. Not when you can get 1000+ dps off of a covops hull with blasters.

Also, the "full complement of bonuses" argument is batshit stupid. That's like saying the Cynabal's "25% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire" is "just a free extra one." A bonus is a bonus, end of line.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#239 - 2013-10-02 21:16:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyancat Audeles
I am sort of disappointed Sad no damage bonuses of any kind!? No one will use lasers.

CCP WE ALL KNOW that capacitor usage reductions on lasers are POINTLESS. It's a JOKE. People will just use blasters or autocannons... at least give a range bonus or something?

Still buying them!
Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#240 - 2013-10-02 21:16:35 UTC
drools.

"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."