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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

First post First post First post
Author
Onictus
Capital Fusion.
Pandemic Horde
#1221 - 2013-10-07 08:46:14 UTC
Every one forgets that the cruiser lacks the range bonus.

That means at best 50 km gardes, and the omnis. Not to mention dlas and ddas to bring them up to full power.

Not likely there aren't the slots.

So realistically you are going to be restricted to a much shorter range unless you want to give up 4 or 5 slots to drone support.

Factoring in coal delays they will be nasty, but far from invisible death machines
Juniper Weatherwax
Industrial Waste Removal Services
#1222 - 2013-10-07 09:16:12 UTC
Ekserevnitis wrote:
1st!!!


It is time I guess, for these useless comments of 'first' and 'this' to be removed from threads, they provide no content and are of no value. It is beyond childish, it is sub moronoc, and it is indeed the example of a mouth with nothing to say and even less to add to the discussion.

Wake Up CCP, Police your threads and remove these unwanted time wasting thread comments.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1223 - 2013-10-07 09:50:52 UTC
Hiiiiii

I'm very sorry you guys had to wait 60 pages for us to comment here. If you didn't know (we tried to be kind of quiet about it) we had a company trip out of the country this weekend and weren't anywhere near the forums for several days.

I can't say anything yet on the ships because I have to catch up quite a bit of reading first and then probably chat with the balance team. Thanks a lot for all the feedback and I promise to be back shortly with some comments.

@ccp_rise

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1224 - 2013-10-07 09:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
I notice on the picture posted by CCP rescue deployable units.?
What role do you think these can have, definitely humanitarian.
Possibly instawarp tractor with projectable shield for rescuing pods during a battle before they can be podded? Or can they eject your pod if destroyed in a secure protection device?.

If the former Could make one of these in a fleet really helpful?

Looking closer I now also see sisters safety units,

If this is actually meant to be something and not just the artworks departments placeholders how would this be for a role
Sisters ship warps close into a battlefield .. Big blob fight going on.. Launches sisters safety units .. Captures all pods as the parents ships are destroyed brings them in = pods to protect and ransom! No agression timer you are doing a good deed... sort of.....Cant kill it, you will kill your own fleets pods! Or.....recycle the pods if they dont pay for implants / implant components.Or if you are in hisec drop them in the nearest wormhole to rot ... For the lutz imagine the tears, fury, when they try and try and call for help and fail to get out and have to decide to kill themselves to get home.The desperate search through wh space for your colleague/friend It could take them days or weeks to get that desperate.Or the feeling of success when they do escape.

Now that's emergent gameplay.

SOE Humanitarian..... When it suits us!

ps just to be nasty you dropped off the sisters safety unit in the middle of a classV sleeper spawnTwisted

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1225 - 2013-10-07 10:33:23 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hiiiiii

I'm very sorry you guys had to wait 60 pages for us to comment here. If you didn't know (we tried to be kind of quiet about it) we had a company trip out of the country this weekend and weren't anywhere near the forums for several days.

I can't say anything yet on the ships because I have to catch up quite a bit of reading first and then probably chat with the balance team. Thanks a lot for all the feedback and I promise to be back shortly with some comments.



If you aren't removing the covops cloak, I hate you.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1226 - 2013-10-07 10:56:28 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
If you aren't removing the covops cloak, I hate you.

The cloak is the whole point of the ship. It would be yet another drone cruiser without it.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1227 - 2013-10-07 11:04:52 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
If you aren't removing the covops cloak, I hate you.

The cloak is the whole point of the ship. It would be yet another drone cruiser without it.


So make it better or more interesting instead. There is no level of badness you can give this ship that will compensate for it having a covops cloak.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1228 - 2013-10-07 11:17:41 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
So make it better or more interesting instead. There is no level of badness you can give this ship that will compensate for it having a covops cloak.

Cloaky T3 already are better, and what harm have they done already ? I'm really curious.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1229 - 2013-10-07 11:45:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
So make it better or more interesting instead. There is no level of badness you can give this ship that will compensate for it having a covops cloak.

Cloaky T3 already are better, and what harm have they done already ? I'm really curious.

It's the magical afk cloaky camper... The boogey man of all miners.

He could hide in any closet and you would never know.

Btw. my signature itches everytime someone says "remove AFK cloking" it's horrible, really.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#1230 - 2013-10-07 12:08:48 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hiiiiii

I'm very sorry you guys had to wait 60 pages for us to comment here. If you didn't know (we tried to be kind of quiet about it) we had a company trip out of the country this weekend and weren't anywhere near the forums for several days.

I can't say anything yet on the ships because I have to catch up quite a bit of reading first and then probably chat with the balance team. Thanks a lot for all the feedback and I promise to be back shortly with some comments.


Hope you had a great trip.

I say let them hit Sisi before making any changes. This is kind of a unique ship and deserves testing before making changes.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#1231 - 2013-10-07 12:18:15 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

I can't say anything yet on the ships because I have to catch up quite a bit of reading first and then probably chat with the balance team. Thanks a lot for all the feedback and I promise to be back shortly with some comments.


I'm looking forward to you replacing the turrets on the Stratios with velocity bonused missiles Blink
Alexhandr Shkarov
Deepsafe Orphanage Ltd.
#1232 - 2013-10-07 12:32:12 UTC
I am missing a high slot. For me this ship would lack enough firepower (as drones are shot quite easily). You can fit two turrets but then you won't have nos/neut for PVP.

All my posts are on my personal title and should not be confused as me speaking for anyone else.

Rengerel en Distel
#1233 - 2013-10-07 12:59:19 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hiiiiii

I'm very sorry you guys had to wait 60 pages for us to comment here. If you didn't know (we tried to be kind of quiet about it) we had a company trip out of the country this weekend and weren't anywhere near the forums for several days.

I can't say anything yet on the ships because I have to catch up quite a bit of reading first and then probably chat with the balance team. Thanks a lot for all the feedback and I promise to be back shortly with some comments.



Where did Somer send you guys? Hope it was nice, with fluffy pillows.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Tepalica
ACME-CORP
#1234 - 2013-10-07 13:31:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tepalica
These SoE ships are interesting to say the least, but these ships have serious issues competing with their natural exploration rivals, and the issue of being "pushed" to use a weapon system that is a killer on ship capacitor.

Quote:
What we're shooting for is ships that are themed around exploration and therefor make good platforms for a range of activities including probing, hacking, exploration combat sites, anoms, killing anom runners, spying on people, looking super sexy and generally being kind of awesome.

We're supporting that model with things like:
Covert cloaks
Exploration role bonuses
Drone and laser weapon systems with large cargo and drone bays so that you don't have to go home often
Extremely high ship agility
And more!


Keeping all that in mind, here are a few thoughts on these ships:


Astero, as it is right now, is a seriously lacking frigate in more ways than one:

First, having a cloaky (exploration) ship with only 2 high slots will just make it as hated as the Helios, not to mention you gave it 2 turret hardpoints already so it would only be logical that it can fit at least both turrets AND a cloak.

The second issue with Astero are the exploration bonuses. I understand these are T1 bonuses, but Astero is directly competing with covert ops frigates in this exploration role, and while I don't see the 37.5% bonus to probe strength as a problem opposed to the 50% that covert ops frigates have, the virus strength difference is a pain in the ass. When it comes to opening Data/Relic sites containers, the virus strength is the most important thing you need, so keeping that in mind, and the fact that the Astero will be at least 3 times more expensive than a covert ops frigate, why would anyone use it over a covert ops frigate for exploration??? (and please don't say something silly as training requirements)

The third issue here is CPU - the ship has no special bonuses to the probe launcher cpu use which means that we won't be able to fit an expanded probe launcher and as a result, won't be able to use combat probes (we might be able to fit it with some creative thinking, but that would simply massacre the ship fit completely) - was this intentional?


Stratios seems very interesting, but it too has some issues:

First, just like the Astero, it's exploration role is being overshadowed by other, namely, Tech3 ships. Again, the slightly lesser bonus to probe strength is no big deal, but even though Tech 3 ships are more expensive, they justify their price completely with the interdiction nullifier subsystem which makes it the best ship for nullsec exploration in the game.
Add to that the difference in the virus strength bonus, bigger scan strength bonus for probes and the 99% cpu reduction for probe launchers, you soon realize there is no reason to use the Stratios over an exploration fitted T3 ship of any kind and training in this case is never an issue because 99% of EvE players are training or have already trained up for at least one type of T3 ships.

Next is the obvious problem with your idea of a drone carrier WITH lasers. The laser cap reduction usage bonus and the decent damage application of laser turrets in general, is just not enough to make people want to fit laser turrets (most of them anyway) because they are a huge drain on the ship's capacitor, even with the bonus. Removing the cap usage bonus and replacing it with with an optimal range bonus or a tracking bonus would do very little because then the guns would be even more cap hungry - and I seriously doubt you would just add a damage application bonus while keeping the energy turret cap usage bonus aswell...
A solution here that I would propose is to adopt the Armageddon's neut range bonus as a flat 100% role bonus or special ability as a replacement to the laser cap usage bonus, while having 4 turret AND 4 launcher hardpoints at our disposal aswell. This would allow players to fit whatever turrets or launchers they feel like fitting to max the dps output of the ship while allowing them to replace those guns/launchers with neuts/vamps for some extra PvP utility while it wouldn't be overpowered in my opinion (the ship would seem more like a bigger, nastier version of the Dragoon destroyer, rather than a direct rival to the Curse)
I know this proposition would not make players want to fit lasers any more than they would anyway - as a comparison, Armageddon fits, if not used as dedicated neuting platforms, never involve lasers anyway, it's always missiles or projectiles - and I believe that SoE technology should not be tied to lasers anyway because they already have the armor resistance bonus as an Amarr trait in their design.



All that being said, I am still extremely disappointed with you (devs) for not making an effort to make a SoE battleship!!!

I am well aware you don't want to give covops cloaks to battleship hulls, but that wouldn't be necessary here at all.
With the traits of SoE ships you mentioned above, you could just adopt the cloaked speed bonus and no locking delay after decloaking from the black ops ships without any of their fancy jump/bridge capabilities (the extreme SoE ship agility you mentioned would work perfectly with this) and combine that with exploration bonuses, neut/vamp range bonus and the regular drone carrier/armor resist SoE profile and you would basically get a ship that would be better than the Armageddon in every way (being a faction ship, I don't see an issue with this), but would still not overshadow the Bhaalgorn due to the sheer amount of neuting a Bhaalgorn can achieve and other things it can bring to a fight.

I know many haters of that cloaked speed bonus from black ops ships will moan at this idea, but those people who actually fly black ops ships, know full well how useful that bonus would be if such a ship would be forced to use gates rather than just jumping to cyno's.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1235 - 2013-10-07 13:45:41 UTC
+1 to increased virus strength.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1236 - 2013-10-07 14:11:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyancat Audeles
Quote:
How's this for better stats?



Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +10(+5) Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists
OR
+5m^3 drone bay per level

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and optimal range

Slot layout: 3H(+1), 4M, 3L(-1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 480(-80) / 660(+60) / 620(+20)
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210



Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Energy Turret tracking and optimal range
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 3 turrets (-1) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1450(-500) / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550



What these changes accomplish:

ASTERO:
The Astero is made a better frigate overall - with the loss of a lowslot, there is now potential for better drone application and better damage. It should be great for doing the lowest level complexes and blitzing L1s and L2 in hostile space - maybe even better performance in wormhole space! Since there's no gun bonus and not too much tank, it won't be overpowered when it comes to PvP. The +5 virus strength will be a welcome bonus to those of us who do sites in nullsec (this can be changed back if it overshadows other ships too much). The loss of shield HP makes it so this can not be turned into an OP PvP brawler because of 4 mid slots.

STRATIOS:
The loss of a turret slot on the Stratios minimizes the potential for the neutron fits that some people think are OP (despite them being complete glass cannons)- yet damage application will be better for PvE'ers, making this ship more capable in PvE and less capable in PvP. The loss of shield HP prevents the efficiency of pure shield gank fits.


Requoting this because it got very positive feedback.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#1237 - 2013-10-07 14:12:56 UTC
The test server is being loaded right now.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1238 - 2013-10-07 14:17:30 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
How's this for better stats?



Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +10(+5) Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists
OR
+5m^3 drone bay per level

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and optimal range

Slot layout: 3H(+1), 4M, 3L(-1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 480(-80) / 660(+60) / 620(+20)
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210



Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Energy Turret tracking and optimal range
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 3 turrets (-1) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1450(-500) / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550



What these changes accomplish:

ASTERO:
The Astero is made a better frigate overall - with the loss of a lowslot, there is now potential for better drone application and better damage. It should be great for doing the lowest level complexes and blitzing L1s and L2 in hostile space - maybe even better performance in wormhole space! Since there's no gun bonus and not too much tank, it won't be overpowered when it comes to PvP. The +5 virus strength will be a welcome bonus to those of us who do sites in nullsec (this can be changed back if it overshadows other ships too much). The loss of shield HP makes it so this can not be turned into an OP PvP brawler because of 4 mid slots.

STRATIOS:
The loss of a turret slot on the Stratios minimizes the potential for the neutron fits that some people think are OP (despite them being complete glass cannons)- yet damage application will be better for PvE'ers, making this ship more capable in PvE and less capable in PvP. The loss of shield HP prevents the efficiency of pure shield gank fits.


Requoting this because it got very positive feedback.

Yes it did get very positive feedback.
I would ask Ccp rise to look at + 10 virus strength on this one too, depending on how Ccp wish to see the ship used, I would personally make this my go to exploration ship and use it for all the roles discussed.I would hate to come back a LONG way to have to swap ships.
Personally I think it would be unfortunately limited if it did not.
But overall this users post was very helpful and well thought out.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#1239 - 2013-10-07 14:25:42 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Quote:
How's this for better stats?



Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +10(+5) Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists
OR
+5m^3 drone bay per level

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and optimal range

Slot layout: 3H(+1), 4M, 3L(-1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 480(-80) / 660(+60) / 620(+20)
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210



Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Energy Turret tracking and optimal range
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 3 turrets (-1) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1450(-500) / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550



What these changes accomplish:

ASTERO:
The Astero is made a better frigate overall - with the loss of a lowslot, there is now potential for better drone application and better damage. It should be great for doing the lowest level complexes and blitzing L1s and L2 in hostile space - maybe even better performance in wormhole space! Since there's no gun bonus and not too much tank, it won't be overpowered when it comes to PvP. The +5 virus strength will be a welcome bonus to those of us who do sites in nullsec (this can be changed back if it overshadows other ships too much). The loss of shield HP makes it so this can not be turned into an OP PvP brawler because of 4 mid slots.

STRATIOS:
The loss of a turret slot on the Stratios minimizes the potential for the neutron fits that some people think are OP (despite them being complete glass cannons)- yet damage application will be better for PvE'ers, making this ship more capable in PvE and less capable in PvP. The loss of shield HP prevents the efficiency of pure shield gank fits.


Requoting this because it got very positive feedback.

The Frigates does not need +10 either. A covert ops frigate cant solo a 3/10 complex.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1240 - 2013-10-07 14:26:24 UTC
Astero

Do something a bit different here.
4high + 2
2 med - 2
4 low

weeken the pvp combat ability by neutering the mids but give it better expo by enabling turrets / cloak / probe

same with thte cruiser

+1 high for -1 mid