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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#121 - 2013-10-02 17:19:05 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
not sure if the ship needs that many high slots. i would get more use out of an extra low so i can fit more tank or more gank but no real need to split weapon focus here.


No thanks, 5 HighSlots are ideal. Not too much, not too little. Well, a damage bonus for lasers would be even better, or at least a compromise, something like 25% cap usage bonus and 25% damage bonus for lasers.

Someone can dream, right? Lol
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#122 - 2013-10-02 17:19:15 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I prefer to kil lmy enemy faster with superior weapons > if you have half the dps in the AC you will end up using MORE cap at the fight (becausse of the other modules)


Unbonused laser DPS is nice. Until you're shooting into their highest resist and doing nothing because you can't actually select the damage you're doing to them.



Base resist of ARMOR .. Pulses do about same damage as AC with FUSION. And when firing against shields Pulse lasers are far more powerful than AC with EMP.

AC are only strogn when they have their ROF bonus.



before bonuses apply, a 425mm Autocannon with RF Fusion will deal 37,3 dps. While shooting explosive. Or em. Or therm.
A Heavy Pulse laser with IN Multifreq will deal 41.6 dps. While being holed into EM / Therm.

So unless you're shooting ships that have a hole on EM / Therm, Projectiles are always better. and even then, they're maximum SLIGHTLY WORSE. It is true that it will be better at scorching ranges, but i already showed you earlier that this is basically where you want Railguns already.



The point is at 20 km , a standard combat range AC are no where good. Base DPS of AC are illusive because they only exist at a range where you cannot track properly anymore.


That is why lasers are much stronger than people can see. Even at 10 km, lasers already own AC massively (when both unbonused).


Your annalysis based on POint blank DPS is irrelevant becuse that range no one in their sane mind woudl fight without a blaster boat.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#123 - 2013-10-02 17:23:22 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Was considering optimal bonus instead of cap use. Maybe can continue to consider that. We didn't want to do damage bonus in the role bonus because then you would have like 900 dps covert cloaking cruiser which is way too much. Optimal might work though.


how about optimal/tracking for drones? as i am not even going to use the high slots for lazors.

chances are if you keep it 5 i would go

covert ops cloak
expanded scanner
drone range
salvager/tractor beam

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#124 - 2013-10-02 17:24:04 UTC
People keep commenting on the low virus strength, why do we not get a response from CCP Devs? If these are not meant to be exploration ships please say so.
I love everything i am hearing about the criuser it particuarly sounds like an awesome ship great for lower level plexes and anoms but useless at nullsec exploration with +5% virus strength. Please do not make us go everywhere with one of these and a covert ops in tow unless there are plans for a strong towrope :)

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#125 - 2013-10-02 17:25:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Chris Winter
5/4/6 slot layout would make more sense on the Stratios. The 6/6/6 of the Gnosis was awesome since you could tank it however you wanted, but the Stratios is armor bonused. It could make much better use of an extra low than a fifth mid.

For exploration you only need two mids, four gives you plenty of scan bonuses if you want it.

For combat it's armor tanked and a sixth low for more tank or gank would serve you a lot better than an extra utility mid.

Also, add me to the list of people who would prefer a more useful bonus than the laser cap use.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#126 - 2013-10-02 17:28:44 UTC
Lookin' mighty shiney!

One thing though, really, really drone bonus? Can't we get, I don't know, blasters? Or lasers. Or both. For the sole reason the only faction ships with lasers are Blood Raider and Amarr Navy, and there isn't really a good cloaky laser boat...

...okay, really, it sounds like a game of drones lately. Sentry drone boats here, cloaky drone boats there... literally bees.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#127 - 2013-10-02 17:31:45 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
not sure if the ship needs that many high slots. i would get more use out of an extra low so i can fit more tank or more gank but no real need to split weapon focus here.


No thanks, 5 HighSlots are ideal. Not too much, not too little. Well, a damage bonus for lasers would be even better, or at least a compromise, something like 25% cap usage bonus and 25% damage bonus for lasers.

Someone can dream, right? Lol


honestly i thought split weapon system was a thing of the past....

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
PavlikX
Scan Stakan
HOLD MY PROBS
#128 - 2013-10-02 17:32:46 UTC
No BS? Sad...
Tenaris Zeratul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2013-10-02 17:33:42 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
HERE THEY ARE

I think we will have a lot of discussion here, these ships will be great for a lot of different things meaning people will be trying to tug them in a few different directions. That's fine!

What we're shooting for is ships that are themed around exploration and therefor make good platforms for a range of activities including probing, hacking, exploration combat sites, anoms, killing anom runners, spying on people, looking super sexy and generally being kind of awesome.

We're supporting that model with things like:
  • Covert cloaks
  • Exploration role bonuses
  • Drone and laser weapon systems with large cargo and drone bays so that you don't have to go home often
  • Extremely high ship agility
  • And more!

    • Anyways you guys can toy around with these specs and let me know what we missed or what you think would be better and I'll try to make everyone happy (which is usually easy).

    Thanks!

    Astero

    Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
    Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
    Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

    Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

    Amarr Frigate Bonus:
    4% bonus to Armor Resists

    Gallente Frigate Bonus:
    10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and tracking speed

    Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
    Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540 / 600 / 600
    Capacitor (amount) : 430
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
    Sensor strength: 13
    Signature radius: 35
    Cargo Capacity: 210


    Stratios

    Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
    Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
    Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

    Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

    Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
    4% bonus to Armor Resists

    Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
    10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

    Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
    Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1950 / 2400 / 2450
    Capacitor (amount) : 1700
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
    Sensor strength: 20
    Signature radius: 150
    Cargo Capacity: 550

    PICTURES (Sorry don't have in-client shots yet)


    The cruiser is literally a straight upgrade to the Ishtar. It does everything better. I don't like that.
    Mjolnir Gost
    Death By Design
    #130 - 2013-10-02 17:36:39 UTC
    Any word on how these are to be seeded?

    Everyone gets found out for what they really are eventually. 
    Owen Levanth
    Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
    #131 - 2013-10-02 17:37:46 UTC
    MeBiatch wrote:
    Owen Levanth wrote:
    MeBiatch wrote:
    not sure if the ship needs that many high slots. i would get more use out of an extra low so i can fit more tank or more gank but no real need to split weapon focus here.


    No thanks, 5 HighSlots are ideal. Not too much, not too little. Well, a damage bonus for lasers would be even better, or at least a compromise, something like 25% cap usage bonus and 25% damage bonus for lasers.

    Someone can dream, right? Lol


    honestly i thought split weapon system was a thing of the past....


    I don't see it that way. Drones are not a primary weapon system for me, I use them more for utility (ECM, anti-frigate / anti-drone) then as an actual weapon. Even my Pilgrim has two heavy beam lasers I somehow forced in between probe launcher and cov-ops cloak!
    Akrasjel Lanate
    Immemorial Coalescence Administration
    Immemorial Coalescence
    #132 - 2013-10-02 17:38:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Akrasjel Lanate
    MeBiatch wrote:
    Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
    Arthur Aihaken wrote:
    Is there a Battleship planned, or just the Frigate and Cruiser? (cool with the 2 ships, just curious)

    For the later date i would say... maby Summer ?


    i would wait for blops reblance first... perhaps 1.1?

    my assumption is the ship will be simular in function.

    Oh yea thats possible

    But it will be a BS with a cloak, it won't have a blops jump/bridge as an option

    CEO of Lanate Industries

    Citizen of Solitude
    Goldensaver
    Maraque Enterprises
    Just let it happen
    #133 - 2013-10-02 17:39:59 UTC
    Kagura Nikon wrote:
    Hosedna wrote:
    Funny, I was expecting something more faction neutral, like the Gnosis, where you can choose pretty much what weapons system you want. Could've been interesting. And since there is no role bonus anyway on dmg or projection, most people will end up fitting autocannons ! So ... What about removing the laser capa bonus, and replacing it either by a bonus for each weapon system (and add 2 missiles points), or replacing it by another exploration bonus, and letting us choose our weapons ?



    always amazes me how people liek to fit the weakest weapon system on this condition. AC have less dps than ANY weapon system, that is because minmatar ships have the ROF bonuses (strogner than damage ones). Lasers and blasters are far stronger when unbonused.

    They don't use cap, have average tracking, have extremely low fitting costs (and the guns are unbonused, so they aren't a primary weapon. You don't want to throw away a ton of fitting on secondary weapons) have average range thanks to the extremely high falloff, and still add a decent amount of DPS. Huh, I wonder why people use them?
    Kari Juptris
    Dreddit
    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    #134 - 2013-10-02 17:40:53 UTC
    epicurus ataraxia wrote:
    Kari Juptris wrote:
    From a pure data/relic exploration perspective the racial covops frigates still look to have a significant leg up. Anyone planning on just doing data/relic may want to just stick to their favorite covops.

    Covops frigs enjoy an extra +10% flight speed per level, +5 extra virus strength, and better potential + probe scan strength (+10% per level vs static 37.5%). The virus strength bonus is marginal right up until it's amazing when you're hacking one of those darn restoration + virus strength weakening containers. The flight time is a nice bonus just to speed things up. Scan strength you can take or leave depending on your skills.

    My Cheetah and I will keep fighting the good fight.

    But then again these are general purpose ships so vov


    But are they just general purpose ships? that's not the idea about pirate faction ships, is it? From the lore description they are all round exploration ships,able to scan down and get the goodies in a hostle environment, why gimp down its advantage by giving it T1 frigate virus strength, if it was only meant to do easystuff in hisec why bother at all?
    Please CCP make it what it is meant to be, use covert ops skills if you must, but let it shine at exploring! The cruiser too!


    One upside I can see to the SoE ships is that they can attack and scare off/kill any explorers already doing a site and finish it up.
    MeBiatch
    GRR GOONS
    #135 - 2013-10-02 17:41:21 UTC
    Owen Levanth wrote:
    I don't see it that way. Drones are not a primary weapon system for me, I use them more for utility (ECM, anti-frigate / anti-drone) then as an actual weapon. Even my Pilgrim has two heavy beam lasers I somehow forced in between probe launcher and cov-ops cloak!


    i would not remove the ability to fit lasors... just see no use in having a cap reduction bonus when its not the primary damage weapons system... if the ship had a lasor bonus instead of a drone damage bonus i would be with you on the utility argument...

    but ccp likes options... and if enough people are happy with it i am fine with the majority rules.

    There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

    Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
    epicurus ataraxia
    Illusion of Solitude.
    Illusion of Solitude
    #136 - 2013-10-02 17:43:14 UTC
    Any way of making the stratios have a resistance to sleeper drone targeting, some drone sleeper ecm bonus perhaps ? Being primarily drone based is a weak point which doesn't bode well for wormholing, apart from that in wormhole exploration it would be awesome (ps dont forget to increase virus strength) *bump* :)

    There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
    Arya Regnar
    Darwins Right Hand
    #137 - 2013-10-02 17:43:51 UTC
    Whoa... Stratios is going to be brutal.

    Me likey.

    EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
    Omnathious Deninard
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #138 - 2013-10-02 17:44:05 UTC
    On the Astero, it does not get a drone damage bonus. Hypothetically speaking if it did get a bonus are the following DPS values too much for a frigate? Using Hobgoblin IIs
    1 DDA 182.6 DPS
    2 DDA 219.17 DPS
    3 DDA 247.93 DPS (lol Shield Tanked)
    4 DDA 264.06 DPS (Trolol Shield Tanked)

    If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
    TrouserDeagle
    Beyond Divinity Inc
    Shadow Cartel
    #139 - 2013-10-02 17:48:03 UTC
    Omnathious Deninard wrote:
    On the Astero, it does not get a drone damage bonus. Hypothetically speaking if it did get a bonus are the following DPS values too much for a frigate? Using Hobgoblin IIs
    1 DDA 182.6 DPS
    2 DDA 219.17 DPS
    3 DDA 247.93 DPS (lol Shield Tanked)
    4 DDA 264.06 DPS (Trolol Shield Tanked)


    No, because drone damage is a lie, and you get like 1/3 of your paper dps because drones are terrible.
    Syrias Bizniz
    some random local shitlords
    #140 - 2013-10-02 17:48:11 UTC
    Tenaris Zeratul wrote:


    The cruiser is literally a straight upgrade to the Ishtar. It does everything better. I don't like that.




    No it doesn't.

    The Ishtar is by far better in terms of damage application.

    The Stratios can probe and cloak in exchange.