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Dev Blog: Player Owned Customs offices in Hi-Sec

First post First post
Author
Elana Maggal
Chandra Labs
#81 - 2013-10-01 16:58:03 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
I love how many times people are repeating "but this forces hiseccers to interact!" as if it wasn't the entire point in the first place.





FORCING.

Exactly what a SAND BOX is not suppose to be.

Elana Maggal
Chandra Labs
#82 - 2013-10-01 17:01:57 UTC
Andski wrote:
heaven forbid CCP slightly trims the massive amount of cotton wool wrapped around every hisec player and allows groups to compete over assets in hisec


Yeah - except there is no competition here. The Big Alliances win. Game over. Anything else and you're just deluding yourself.

Now if there were SEVERAL custom offices at each planet, there might be actual competition ...

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#83 - 2013-10-01 17:05:28 UTC
maybe you can compete with the big alliances by starting a big alliance of your own

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Blondie Jiggles
Mobile Ore Exchange
#84 - 2013-10-01 17:08:46 UTC
Hah this is a joke right?

HS PI is NOT worth fighting over !
The taxes are way too high and the yields of key ingredients are way too low.
The pathetic low yields of HS PI will NOT cover the expenses of fighting over POCO's, certainly for the small corps.
Just save us the trouble and transfer all assets to Goonswarm and delete my account.

Alternatively, leave HS PI alone and fix something meaningful like;
1.stop me from falling asleep while mining (add an asteroids client - ie shoot asteroids while you mine asteroids, the better you shoot the faster you mine ;) (or give mining bots to everybody)
2..make low sec relevant. I dont exactly know how, I just know its broken (I haven't been there but would like to without the need to share my profits with the support fleet who are trying not to fall asleep while waiting for the swarm of goons to jump in and blow up everything)

Elana Maggal
Chandra Labs
#85 - 2013-10-01 17:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Elana Maggal
Weaselior wrote:
Elana Maggal wrote:
So you pretty much hand over PI to the larger alliances, **** over smaller solo players, and make Hi-sec more like low-sec and null-sec which stupidly is considered a "good thing".

PI was a boring piece of crap anyway so - goodbye PI.


heaven forbid in this massively multiplayer game one might get advantages from being able to work with other people


You're delusional if giving a big alliance a monopoly over a custom's office is "WORKING WITH OTHER PEOPLE"

And PS: by the way, believe it or not, many computer players are SOLO or a small group of friends at best. Not everyone including EVE players play in some big turd dropping GOON/CSM/CPP infested alliance.
Josef Djugashvilis
#86 - 2013-10-01 17:09:51 UTC
If the CSM (anyone remember them)? was largely made up of null-sec folk who would be happy with this change as they 'might' benefit from it, then there could be a slight suspicion that they were furthering their own sectional interests by supporting this.

This is not a signature.

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2013-10-01 17:10:44 UTC
Elana Maggal wrote:
You're delusional if giving a big alliance a monopoly over a custom's office is "WORKING WITH OTHER PEOPLE"

And PS: by the way, believe it or not, many computer players are SOLO or a few players at best. Not everyone including EVE players play in some big turd dropping GOON/CSM/CPP infested alliance.


doesn't a big alliance consist of a large number of people working with others

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-10-01 17:12:08 UTC
Blondie Jiggles wrote:
Hah this is a joke right?

HS PI is NOT worth fighting over !
The taxes are way too high and the yields of key ingredients are way too low.
The pathetic low yields of HS PI will NOT cover the expenses of fighting over POCO's, certainly for the small corps.
Just save us the trouble and transfer all assets to Goonswarm and delete my account.

Alternatively, leave HS PI alone and fix something meaningful like;
1.stop me from falling asleep while mining (add an asteroids client - ie shoot asteroids while you mine asteroids, the better you shoot the faster you mine ;) (or give mining bots to everybody)
2..make low sec relevant. I dont exactly know how, I just know its broken (I haven't been there but would like to without the need to share my profits with the support fleet who are trying not to fall asleep while waiting for the swarm of goons to jump in and blow up everything)


If they're not worth fighting over, why are we salivating so hard at the chance to own them? Straight

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#89 - 2013-10-01 17:16:37 UTC
Elana Maggal wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Elana Maggal wrote:
So you pretty much hand over PI to the larger alliances, **** over smaller solo players, and make Hi-sec more like low-sec and null-sec which stupidly is considered a "good thing".

PI was a boring piece of crap anyway so - goodbye PI.


heaven forbid in this massively multiplayer game one might get advantages from being able to work with other people


You're delusional if giving a big alliance a monopoly over a custom's office is "WORKING WITH OTHER PEOPLE"

And PS: by the way, believe it or not, many computer players are SOLO or a small group of friends at best. Not everyone including EVE players play in some big turd dropping GOON/CSM/CPP infested alliance.


Bringing emergent gameplay to you, one turd at a time.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them

None ofthe Above
#90 - 2013-10-01 17:22:06 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Aryth wrote:
As the person that developed the highsec poco plans...Your fears of Goons taking over all the highsec pocos are completely unfounded. It isn't required or desired.

What you should really be worried about hasn't even been brought up yet.


Aaand later you guys say:

mynnna wrote:
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
At GSF is admitting that they'll be doing the high sec POCO grab.

I fail to see why this surprises anyone.


Nice job keeping up the pretense. Didn't last long.

Parsing this out, I presume that the grab will probably be selective. Certain areas may be untouched. But you'll be taking key regions worth of POCOs.

I am not sure I care who does this. CFC has the largest resources to do this, but they are not the only people to be concerned about.

I foresee a huge brawl in The Forge the likes of the Fountain War. RvB vs Goonswarm with other powers dropping in on various engagements. And that's probably the best case scenario. Worst would be a major power rolling through unopposed.

From the dev blog:

Quote:

POCOs in hi sec will give the owner the exact same controls as POCOs in low sec – the owner can set the tax rate as he wants and can have different tax rates based on standings. This includes denying access.


I think the deny access in highsec is going to be a real problem. It makes sense in low and null, but a real problem in high.

NPC taxes are still there, so it's obviously regulated. You may need to special case for high sec and remove the deny by standings and keep a lid on max tax rates. Or else things are likely to get really ugly in the production chain. While having null sec alliances play a part in this charge is interesting, I don't think allowing the starvation of highsec PI (unless we all kneel before Zod, Arryth, the Mittani, Mangala or whomever wins the Poco grab) is a good idea.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2013-10-01 17:22:37 UTC
Nullsec gets handed siphons to steal moongoo and nullsec says nothing as that is funny what will promote some fun at the expense of our income.


Highsec gets handed POCOS and flips out because they want to play farmville in peace without those nasty big alliances clubbing them over the head.

The rabbit hole is much deeper than people seem to realize in this thread. We have three plans. Only one of which anyone is focusing on at this point. You should be worried far more about your fellow highsecer than us. While we are interested, this is fairly small income to us outside certain select cases. Worry more about your neighbors.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Adunh Slavy
#92 - 2013-10-01 17:23:10 UTC
Peter Powers wrote:
there is one thing that bothers me:

if the poco can't be transfered during war, that kinda means i can't have
a war-loser transfer his poco (or all his pocos) to me as a reparation payment.
(otherwise i have to drop war first which kinda would allow him to sell 'em to someone else take 'em down or whatever)

so if you really implement this limitation it would be nice if there was at least a "transfer to war oponnent" button or something like that.



This is a great idea.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

brinelan
#93 - 2013-10-01 17:24:48 UTC
Obil Que wrote:
Any changes to the deployment of POCOs in regards to anchoring time/upgrade time?

I could see a fairly interesting development of people warping in logi + hauler or even using a blockade runner to "ninja drop" a POCO in place where another fleet had done the work of removing the Interbus. It certainly makes for contemplating some interesting tactics on how this would work but the very short timer for anchoring and upgrading a POCO makes it possible and once it is in place, the wardec mechanic makes it all but impossible to remove as you need to wait out the wardec timer.


Last time I put a poco down, I remember the anchor, online and upgrade times to be under a minute total.
Elana Maggal
Chandra Labs
#94 - 2013-10-01 17:25:20 UTC
Quote:
I don't think allowing the starvation of highsec PI (unless we all kneel before Zod, Arryth, the Mittani, Mangala or whomever wins the Poco grab) is a good idea.


Someone who has some brain cells still working. Good post.
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#95 - 2013-10-01 17:27:04 UTC
Elana Maggal wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Elana Maggal wrote:
So you pretty much hand over PI to the larger alliances, **** over smaller solo players, and make Hi-sec more like low-sec and null-sec which stupidly is considered a "good thing".

PI was a boring piece of crap anyway so - goodbye PI.


heaven forbid in this massively multiplayer game one might get advantages from being able to work with other people


You're delusional if giving a big alliance a monopoly over a custom's office is "WORKING WITH OTHER PEOPLE"

And PS: by the way, believe it or not, many computer players are SOLO or a small group of friends at best. Not everyone including EVE players play in some big turd dropping GOON/CSM/CPP infested alliance.

Might I suggest that you not play an MMO then? Here, let me suggest some other games.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 

aoeu Itonula
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#96 - 2013-10-01 17:27:09 UTC
You really should make it so you don't have to wardec to take down POCOs. The wardec cost is only an obstacle for groups that don't need the protection. By making it so you don't need a wardec, you make it so the people who actually live in the space can take over the customs offices.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2013-10-01 17:27:42 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Aryth wrote:
As the person that developed the highsec poco plans...Your fears of Goons taking over all the highsec pocos are completely unfounded. It isn't required or desired.

What you should really be worried about hasn't even been brought up yet.


Aaand later you guys say:

mynnna wrote:
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
At GSF is admitting that they'll be doing the high sec POCO grab.

I fail to see why this surprises anyone.


Nice job keeping up the pretense. Didn't last long.

Parsing this out, I presume that the grab will probably be selective. Certain areas may be untouched. But you'll be taking key regions worth of POCOs.

I am not sure I care who does this. CFC has the largest resources to do this, but they are not the only people to be concerned about.

I foresee a huge brawl in The Forge the likes of the Fountain War. RvB vs Goonswarm with other powers dropping in on various engagements. And that's probably the best case scenario. Worst would be a major power rolling through unopposed.

From the dev blog:

Quote:

POCOs in hi sec will give the owner the exact same controls as POCOs in low sec – the owner can set the tax rate as he wants and can have different tax rates based on standings. This includes denying access.


I think the deny access in highsec is going to be a real problem. It makes sense in low and null, but a real problem in high.

NPC taxes are still there, so it's obviously regulated. You may need to special case for high sec and remove the deny by standings and keep a lid on max tax rates. Or else things are likely to get really ugly in the production chain. While having null sec alliances play a part in this charge is interesting, I don't think allowing the starvation of highsec PI (unless we all kneel before Zod, Arryth, the Mittani, Mangala or whomever wins the Poco grab) is a good idea.


We have never said we won't take pocos. What we said was we don't care about all of highsec. We don't, nor will we. The planning for this started 2 years ago. You guys just have a lot of theorycrafting catchup to do is all.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Aliath Sunstrike
#98 - 2013-10-01 17:29:09 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Woo! Feedback time :)

Ahem. *cough cough*

Blink

Seriously, the CSM is also looking forward to hearing player feedback on this one, particularly on the "null-sec take-over of high-sec POCOs" question that's already come up on page one. Can high-sec entities make it more trouble than it's worth to GSF or other null-sec entities to defend against reinforced POCOs over and over again? Or will the cost of the war-dec itself be the primary shield?



Come on. Really? You even have to ask this @#$@ question? How dense are you guys? I don't get riled up about much with this game, but when I see comments like this and CCP's obvious and daft attempt to spin the "wheel of fortune" without knowing what space it will land on, I tend to get a bit perturbed.

Let me be clear before pressing on... I don't use hisec POCO's, I could care less about hisec POCO's, but I feel the need to correct such ignornance in abundance as do most players in this game.

I am calling shinanigans. How anyone thinks that (with the exception of the rare quiet hisec system at first) this won't be the biggest land grab for null or already large entities in EVE - you have to be deaf, dumb and stupid.

What this whole thing tells me (painfully obvious) is that CCP has truly set its long term game design on the idea of Rubicon.

This expansion is the begining of making player owned/run alliances equals with NPC. I get it.

I can't say I hate the idea, I just think (thought as you have preached it for YEARS) -- that this is what 0.0 is (was) for! Why not buff 0.0 instead of nerfing Hisec.

Fin

Continuous player since 2007.

Elana Maggal
Chandra Labs
#99 - 2013-10-01 17:30:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Elana Maggal
Aryth wrote:
Nullsec gets handed siphons to steal moongoo and nullsec says nothing as that is funny what will promote some fun at the expense of our income.


Highsec gets handed POCOS and flips out because they want to play farmville in peace without those nasty big alliances clubbing them over the head.

The rabbit hole is much deeper than people seem to realize in this thread. We have three plans. Only one of which anyone is focusing on at this point. You should be worried far more about your fellow highsecer than us. While we are interested, this is fairly small income to us outside certain select cases. Worry more about your neighbors.


Yeah - what a shock! Some players don't want their sand box to be turded over by a large alliance monopolizing their game play and pay a monthly fee to play freely in a SAND BOX called Hi-sec.

GOD FORBID it ain't like NUL-SEC! OH NO - can't have that sayz the goon turds.
Aliath Sunstrike
#100 - 2013-10-01 17:31:58 UTC
Aryth wrote:
As the person that developed the highsec poco plans...Your fears of Goons taking over all the highsec pocos are completely unfounded. It isn't required or desired.

What you should really be worried about hasn't even been brought up yet.



Oh your mean the impending Market speculation and price increase the Goons pride themselves on?

Continuous player since 2007.