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Dev Blog: Player Owned Customs offices in Hi-Sec

First post First post
Author
Zane Ziebold
Repo Industries
#61 - 2013-10-01 16:27:44 UTC
So what happens when the last InterBus Customs offices gets destroyed?
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#62 - 2013-10-01 16:30:51 UTC
Zane Ziebold wrote:
So what happens when the last InterBus Customs offices gets destroyed?


then GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORT [MY 5S] will own all customs offices ever in the history of ever
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#63 - 2013-10-01 16:30:57 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Elana Maggal wrote:
So you pretty much hand over PI to the larger alliances, **** over smaller solo players, and make Hi-sec more like low-sec and null-sec which stupidly is considered a "good thing".

PI was a boring piece of crap anyway so - goodbye PI.


heaven forbid in this massively multiplayer game one might get advantages from being able to work with other people


In your aka the particularly ugly case of an alliance that is devoted to make the gameplay experience for all people of this game worse and unenjoyable: Yes, definitely heaven forbid. Your attitude alone proves all the negative sentiments against your alliance/coalition.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#64 - 2013-10-01 16:34:45 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

In your aka the particularly ugly case of an alliance that is devoted to make the gameplay experience for all people of this game worse and unenjoyable: Yes, definitely heaven forbid. Your attitude alone proves all the negative sentiments against your alliance/coalition.

not all people, just all the people who happen to not be in our alliance or blue list

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2013-10-01 16:35:31 UTC
but most of those people are barely human they're things like highseccers and test

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-10-01 16:36:15 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:

In your aka the particularly ugly case of an alliance that is devoted to make the gameplay experience for all people of this game worse and unenjoyable: Yes, definitely heaven forbid. Your attitude alone proves all the negative sentiments against your alliance/coalition.

not all people, just all the people who happen to not be in our alliance or blue list


To be fair here, it includes some of those people as well. Just fugging diplomats won't let us terrorize them too.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

CCP Paradox
#67 - 2013-10-01 16:36:39 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Zane Ziebold wrote:
So what happens when the last InterBus Customs offices gets destroyed?


then GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORT [MY 5S] will own all customs offices ever in the history of ever


There are still lots of InterBus owned customs offices in Low-Sec for you to shoot...

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#68 - 2013-10-01 16:37:54 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Zane Ziebold wrote:
So what happens when the last InterBus Customs offices gets destroyed?


then GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORT [MY 5S] will own all customs offices ever in the history of ever


There are still lots of InterBus owned customs offices in Low-Sec for you to shoot...

it's a long term project okay
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-10-01 16:43:52 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Elemenohpee wrote:
So all that's going to happen is a large nullsec entity hits a whole bunch of highsec customs offices and puts up their own pocos setting 60% tax, meaning I pay 70% tax overall.

It then costs me 500 mill to dec them to hit their poco, which I wont bother doing as to make that back from hisec pi will take months.

So basically your giving large null alliances free isk.

GG

Maybe if you hold sov you shouldn't be able to hold highsec pocos?


Nah, why would we do that? Then no one uses them and we don't actually make any isk for them. Unless you're saying you're dumb enough to pay a 70% tax anyway.

Here's what really happens.

You train the skill right away, lowering the NPC portion of the tax to 5%.

Then, we seize the POCOs right away, at least some of them, and set our own tax to something - probably, as it happens, 5%.

Then RvB or someone contests our pocos and in the ongoing monthlong war, they're constantly being destroyed and reinforced, such that everyone who was using them before moves to different systems.

Lol


Would not make sense for GSF to take over all of the POCO in high sec and raise to taxes to, for example, 70% ? Then no one would use them and the price for PI materials would go up exponentially so GSF could then make excellent profits on their nullsec PI operations.
If this were to happen would the CSM and/or CCP consider this to be a good change ?


We'd make so much less isk off of that than we would by simply running a 5% tax rate.

Maximus Andendare wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Nah, why would we do that? Then no one uses them and we don't actually make any isk for them. Unless you're saying you're dumb enough to pay a 70% tax anyway.

Here's what really happens.

You train the skill right away, lowering the NPC portion of the tax to 5%.

Then, we seize the POCOs right away, at least some of them, and set our own tax to something - probably, as it happens, 5%.

Then RvB or someone contests our pocos and in the ongoing monthlong war, they're constantly being destroyed and reinforced, such that everyone who was using them before moves to different systems.

Lol
At GSF is admitting that they'll be doing the high sec POCO grab.

I fail to see why this surprises anyone.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-10-01 16:43:59 UTC
The doom-and-gloom posts in this thread miss two broader points:

1. CCP has stated repeatedly in dev blogs and fanfest talks that they want to increase "player interactions". Removing a NPC-seeded part of the game and replacing it with a player construction is one step along that path. This is a MMO and it benefits from social interactions. Why do you think that stargate picture is being shown again and again?

2. PI will continue to thrive, but in a different manner. If the easy, convenient COs people had been using come under new ownership or are destroyed, what happens? The player can (a) continue attempting to use that planet, (b) move to a less fought over area, or (c) exit the market. If (a) then no big deal, maybe a price increase passed to consumer. If (b) then GOOD, we have lots of systems in Eve which need more traffic. If (c) then no big deal, some other player will see the decrease in supply lead to a price increase, and enter the market himself.

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Sern Tanalon
Perkone
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-10-01 16:46:40 UTC
From what I can tell, the options for a solo/small corp doing PI are as follows:

-> Use the "rocket launch" system and accept fewer m3 of goods per launch and about 20x more launches for the same amount of material put into space (plus the added time limit between launches)

-> Continue as normal and hope that the large alliance du jour does not place an inhibitive tax (which is certainly possible if the alliance wants to profit from high-sec PI, but as so many things in EVE, is not guaranteed)

-> Ask the controlling alliance nicely to work with you on PI (results will vary)

-> Join the controlling alliance, but obviously this ends you status as "solo/small corp"

-> Or, as always, simply terminate PI activities (which will profit everyone else still doing PI by lowering overall supply)

This seems to boil down to many other potential game changes in EvE: If you shift the mechanics to make larger and larger group action more and more favored in risk vs. reward, you will certainly get larger groups in your player base, because players will either join larger entities to survive and continue their chosen gameplay, or stop such gameplay / leave the game when their preferred method of play becomes too impractical.

Thus, after this change, I'd predict that the player base will, in fact, look more like what CCP is hoping for, although perhaps not as large as they would hope for.
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#72 - 2013-10-01 16:48:35 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
Question for CCP:

With POCOs being introduced into high sec does this mean that material amounts that can be obtained from planets in high sec will be raised to the same amounts as can be obtained from low sec planets?

Don't think so

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#73 - 2013-10-01 16:49:58 UTC


CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#74 - 2013-10-01 16:51:10 UTC
I doubt 0.0 entities can maintain total monopoly of higsec POCO. Many tools for fast structure grinding are absent in higsec, as is power projection / titan bridging. Furthermore most 0.0 entities can deploy only fraction of their full manpower to higsec structure grinding because of faction standings and security status problems of their line members.

What is possible and likely to happen is that better organised entities, regardless if they are form 0.0, higsec, low sec or wormholes, will attempt to capture better planets near major trade hubs, but much of higsec CO will remain NPC for a long time. Then pvp entities will start reinforcing those PC POCOs just to provoke a fight. What is price of wordecking Goons now? Less then a plex, about a price of pvp tengu? There are many corps/alliances that would gladly pay that for nice afternoon of sniping goon logistics attempting to rep the POCO without any danger of having nagas or tornados tackled by doctor or bombed in single run, or fight being ruined by bunch of capitals or supercaps.

Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows...

Del DelVechio
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#75 - 2013-10-01 16:51:37 UTC
All your base are belong to us....
W0wbagger
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#76 - 2013-10-01 16:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: W0wbagger
Hi - please don't make the wardec restriction apply to low and nullsec - we frequently buy pocos and not being able to because the corp is at war is just a needless nerf for us - there is no reason for this restriction to exist in low/null and just screws over Pocos in this area

As a potentially more important issue- in the current situation - what is to stop me a neutral, flying up to a poco being bashed in highsec in a hauler/orca whatever with his own poco in the hold - locking it up, waiting for it to die and then deploying his own? - basically means its fastest finger first which is a bit unfair on the guys who have paid to do the wardeccing.
This is of course also the case in low/null with the difference that you can just blow up said hauler meaning the mechanic was never too much of an issue.
Elana Maggal
Chandra Labs
#77 - 2013-10-01 16:53:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Elana Maggal
The problem with one custom office per planet - is it allows a monopoly of the planet by Big Alliances. Now if a player had several custom offices to choose from, there would be actual competition like in a real economy.

Tthe new proposed changes is the ability of the controlling Big Alliance (and don't fool yourself, the more valuable custom offices like Lava planets will be taken over within weeks by the Big Alliances) - imports can be shut down completely except those they choose to include, and ridiculous rates can be charged for exports (although hi-sec players can avoid this by making PI an even more laborious grind by simply bypassing the customs altogether - but given just how unpleasant PI is already, who's going to want to grind even more - given you can no longer import??)

This pretty much is a handover of more power to the Big Players/Alliances in the game - and fails to recognize the number of players who play EVE as a sand box who have alts in hi-sec specifically to avoid the nul-sec gameplay or the power so many of the already rich players have in Eve.

Another side-effect will be the cost of maintaining small POS's in hi-sec by smaller corporations will go up considerably - as PI fuel supplies will be MONOPOLIZED by the BIG ALLIANCES.

This change is a one-sided change - does not benefit all players in Eve. It benefits by a LION'S SHARE the big power players. It leaves small solo players and small corporations OUT IN THE COLD.

Hi-sec is where all new players start off. IT ISN'T A FUKKKING SAND BOX IF ALL THEY CAN DO IS WHAT SOME BIG ALLIANCE FORCES THEM TO DO WHEN THEY START PLAYING EVE - IS IT?

MORONS.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#78 - 2013-10-01 16:54:04 UTC
I love how many times people are repeating "but this forces hiseccers to interact!" as if it wasn't the entire point in the first place.



Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#79 - 2013-10-01 16:54:18 UTC
Who cares about those hotdogs stands in space, start posting what really matters: ships balancing, warp changes, those deployables you showed us on stream and all joicy things not yet revealed.

Invalid signature format

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#80 - 2013-10-01 16:57:04 UTC
heaven forbid CCP slightly trims the massive amount of cotton wool wrapped around every hisec player and allows groups to compete over assets in hisec

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar