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Dev Blog: Player Owned Customs offices in Hi-Sec

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Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#41 - 2013-10-01 15:59:42 UTC
I am now taking advance payments to ensure that you make it on to the "RvB Do Not Tax" list for all our future POCOs in The Forge region & the Aptetter constellation in Metropolis.

Please add the note "POCO Tax" to your deposits.
Elana Maggal
Chandra Labs
#42 - 2013-10-01 16:01:30 UTC
So you pretty much hand over PI to the larger alliances, **** over smaller solo players, and make Hi-sec more like low-sec and null-sec which stupidly is considered a "good thing".

PI was a boring piece of crap anyway so - goodbye PI.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#43 - 2013-10-01 16:01:51 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I hope this works in game like the devs have planned in there heads.



Like the already way too powerful powerblocks getting even more power? Yes, it will certainly work this way. All Plasma and Lava-Planets are most likely going to be under the jurisdiction of one or two particularly prominent/notorious alliances, that's for sure.

Nevertheless, it's interesting since it' is in turn likely to drive prices up. \o/

UI Improvement Collective

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Daenna Chrysi
Omega Foundry Unit
Southern Legion Alliance
#44 - 2013-10-01 16:05:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Daenna Chrysi
This could kill the PI, as any large scale operation would cost more to keep running than it would be worth, even with one more skill to push to 5.

Already the export taxes are painfully high, and now the player set taxes come on top of the NPC taxes, this is going to choke the PI production to so that only those who can afford to be in a war 24/7 can afford to have any kind of poco. Any large scale production becomes impossible to manage as the assets are too widely spread and thus impossible to defend for independent operators.

The income I get from PI is the only reason why I still actively play the game, because I can get things done even if I cant go and grind 9 hours a day anymore. if I dont have time to grind for 9 hours a day, I most certainly wont be able to defend the pocos I would need to keep my production profitable enough to be worth the effort. Theres no way in hell ill trust any other player to stick to their word of reasonable taxes, or their ability to hold on to the poco for extended periods of time.

While I wont emoragequit as soon as this hits, CCP is making clear that only kind of player welcome in the game is the one who wants to **** the other players harder than everyone else.

One way this would work is that CCP removes the m3 limitation on rocket launches, so that instead of launching 500m3 in one go, we can launch everything we need in one launch. Then it would be worth the effort still to produce on planets independently, as one could bypass the poco.
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#45 - 2013-10-01 16:09:48 UTC
Can I get clarification on the anchoring please (and sorry if this has already been asked).

Do you have to have local faction standing to anchor like you would a pos?

No, you were not blobbed, you just didn't bring enough people to the fight!
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2013-10-01 16:09:56 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Please also remove the SOV requirement in nullsec to place command centers. This would allow us to open it up based on standings and share planets with people. We can lockout hostiles with 100% tax rates if so desired.


^^This +1

- Also will more change to PI will be coming in the future? (i.e: UI, maybe new items to produce)

- Will the cargo capacity of the command center be increase or would you allow for multiple launch withing a certain period before the cool down timer sets in?

Thank you for your future response!
Fix Lag
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-10-01 16:11:01 UTC
As long as corporations/alliances that are basically permanently wardecced have a way to transfer POCOs while at war this should be fine.

CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude.
CCP Paradox
#48 - 2013-10-01 16:14:27 UTC
Philpip wrote:
Can I get clarification on the anchoring please (and sorry if this has already been asked).

Do you have to have local faction standing to anchor like you would a pos?


No, no restrictions like that.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#49 - 2013-10-01 16:16:07 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Philpip wrote:
Can I get clarification on the anchoring please (and sorry if this has already been asked).

Do you have to have local faction standing to anchor like you would a pos?


No, no restrictions like that.


Thanks for clearing that up. Is that a hint towards the future with respect to pos's?

No, you were not blobbed, you just didn't bring enough people to the fight!
Fix Lag
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2013-10-01 16:16:11 UTC
Aryth wrote:
What you should really be worried about hasn't even been brought up yet.


"This is only the beginning!"

CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#51 - 2013-10-01 16:17:18 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Elemenohpee wrote:
So all that's going to happen is a large nullsec entity hits a whole bunch of highsec customs offices and puts up their own pocos setting 60% tax, meaning I pay 70% tax overall.

It then costs me 500 mill to dec them to hit their poco, which I wont bother doing as to make that back from hisec pi will take months.

So basically your giving large null alliances free isk.

GG

Maybe if you hold sov you shouldn't be able to hold highsec pocos?


Nah, why would we do that? Then no one uses them and we don't actually make any isk for them. Unless you're saying you're dumb enough to pay a 70% tax anyway.

Here's what really happens.

You train the skill right away, lowering the NPC portion of the tax to 5%.

Then, we seize the POCOs right away, at least some of them, and set our own tax to something - probably, as it happens, 5%.

Then RvB or someone contests our pocos and in the ongoing monthlong war, they're constantly being destroyed and reinforced, such that everyone who was using them before moves to different systems.

Lol


Would not make sense for GSF to take over all of the POCO in high sec and raise to taxes to, for example, 70% ? Then no one would use them and the price for PI materials would go up exponentially so GSF could then make excellent profits on their nullsec PI operations.
If this were to happen would the CSM and/or CCP consider this to be a good change ?
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#52 - 2013-10-01 16:20:45 UTC
Lakshata Chawla wrote:
So... You're keeping the NPC tax rates on the pocos, even if they're owned by a player?

There doesn't seem to be any incentive to do PI in highsec then since you can probably just find a nice C1, have no tax, and actually just mine the resources yourself.

If you want to remove NPC pocos, remove the NPC tax on pocos as well.
Yeah, It now seems that hisec PI will be all but untenable due to the costs. The margins on PI goods aren't that great to begin with, and certainly not after you'll be doubly taxed for them.

The other major concern is what is to stop a large null sec alliance from coming into high sec and setting up lots of POCOs, using the enormous wardec cost as a shield??

All I see coming from this change is less high sec PI being done and null sec alliances now having a way to tax high sec players as well. Why not add a cumulative "upkeep tax" to alliances based on how many POCOs they have?

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Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#53 - 2013-10-01 16:20:50 UTC
About the new skill....

Who has to train it? Is it trained by the CEO and applied to the Corp in the same way as a skill that increases max Corp membership?

If so, do we really need another skill that only a handful of characters will ever train and becomes nearly compulsory in order for the Corp to compete? It just doesn't sound very interesting and will be a barrier to entry for newer players trying to develop their characters/corps.

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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#54 - 2013-10-01 16:21:18 UTC
Question for CCP:

With POCOs being introduced into high sec does this mean that material amounts that can be obtained from planets in high sec will be raised to the same amounts as can be obtained from low sec planets?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#55 - 2013-10-01 16:21:23 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Elemenohpee wrote:
So all that's going to happen is a large nullsec entity hits a whole bunch of highsec customs offices and puts up their own pocos setting 60% tax, meaning I pay 70% tax overall.

It then costs me 500 mill to dec them to hit their poco, which I wont bother doing as to make that back from hisec pi will take months.

So basically your giving large null alliances free isk.

GG

Maybe if you hold sov you shouldn't be able to hold highsec pocos?


[...]

Then RvB or someone contests our pocos and in the ongoing monthlong war, they're constantly being destroyed and reinforced, such that everyone who was using them before moves to different systems.

Lol


Would not make sense for GSF to take over all of the POCO in high sec and raise to taxes to, for example, 70% ? Then no one would use them and the price for PI materials would go up exponentially so GSF could then make excellent profits on their nullsec PI operations.
If this were to happen would the CSM and/or CCP consider this to be a good change ?


From what it seems: Working as intended. CCP is infested with Goons and so is the CSM, which in turn means best features ever. /s

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#56 - 2013-10-01 16:22:33 UTC
Ugleb wrote:
About the new skill....

Who has to train it? Is it trained by the CEO and applied to the Corp in the same way as a skill that increases max Corp membership?

If so, do we really need another skill that only a handful of characters will ever train and becomes nearly compulsory in order for the Corp to compete? It just doesn't sound very interesting and will be a barrier to entry for newer players trying to develop their characters/corps.


It will obviously be a skill you will have to train on all the chars you have that want to do PI. Roll
Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#57 - 2013-10-01 16:23:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ugleb
Meh double post.

http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

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Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#58 - 2013-10-01 16:25:02 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Nah, why would we do that? Then no one uses them and we don't actually make any isk for them. Unless you're saying you're dumb enough to pay a 70% tax anyway.

Here's what really happens.

You train the skill right away, lowering the NPC portion of the tax to 5%.

Then, we seize the POCOs right away, at least some of them, and set our own tax to something - probably, as it happens, 5%.

Then RvB or someone contests our pocos and in the ongoing monthlong war, they're constantly being destroyed and reinforced, such that everyone who was using them before moves to different systems.

Lol
At GSF is admitting that they'll be doing the high sec POCO grab.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#59 - 2013-10-01 16:26:18 UTC
Elana Maggal wrote:
So you pretty much hand over PI to the larger alliances, **** over smaller solo players, and make Hi-sec more like low-sec and null-sec which stupidly is considered a "good thing".

PI was a boring piece of crap anyway so - goodbye PI.


heaven forbid in this massively multiplayer game one might get advantages from being able to work with other people

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#60 - 2013-10-01 16:27:19 UTC
Lakshata Chawla wrote:
So... You're keeping the NPC tax rates on the pocos, even if they're owned by a player?

There doesn't seem to be any incentive to do PI in highsec then since you can probably just find a nice C1, have no tax, and actually just mine the resources yourself.

If you want to remove NPC pocos, remove the NPC tax on pocos as well.


I was expecting the high sec tax to be dropped as well given that everywhere will be the same then with POCO everywhere. Doesn't make sense somehow especially if the amounts of PI material on high sec planets is not increased in line with low sec planets for example Question