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Star Citizen v EVE

First post First post First post
Author
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#401 - 2013-09-08 20:13:26 UTC
Tollen Gallen wrote:
Tanesha Kring wrote:
raven666wings wrote:
Fala-Berit wrote:
Star Citizen

Player Funded Beta?


Before the beta comes the alpha, which is set to happen sometime in December.


Sort of. The battle arena Alpha will be released. Then it's a planet side social module, then the Squadron 42 Alpha, then the Star Citizen multiplayer Alpha. People keep saying that it's supposed to be released in 2014, but from what I've read the Star Citizen multiplayer will be going Beta late 2014 and the full game will be released in early 2015. However there's nothing set in stone.


Wait..Wot!

Shocked .... Future Players have promised to pay money after a certain stage... or they have handed over cash already?


Nevermind, it does'nt matter it will either do well or fail... if its still going in 2 years i dare say i'll give it a try.

I remember a time when games were released after beta with just a few annoying bugs, these days its now beta with patches and bug fixes rushed out before the player base runs for the hills....

I feel old, and cynical, and this just makes me Grumpy.
Alpha lol.....


It's a crowdfunded game. This means that players have forwarded money in advance to develop the game, in exchange to accesing it once it's done and obtaining certain rewards according to how much they forwarded.

FAI, I contributed 60 $, and thus I obtained acces to alpha, beta and the full game, plus an advanced ship ingame with lifetime insurance on the hull, plus a sum of ingame currency, plus a special flight gear for early backers, plus a custom ID card (physical item) and a few more ingame rewards which now I don't recall exactly.

Can they take my money and not deliver the game I expect? Yes. Could I pursue them legally unless it was a blatant scam? No.

So, why did I did it? Hope and trust. If the game fails to deliver, it would be the same as buying it once done and don't like it despite all positive reviews. And if it delivers, I will have a few extra advantages for my trust and a nifty price tag.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#402 - 2013-09-09 02:09:57 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
This i like when looking at the classes of ships that can even be landed on planets, and those that can even be built at all in order to keep flghting scenarios Under control and avoid power creep as the game gets older and pilots have huge number of large ships at their disposal.


Planetary landings will be limited to single seat ships, as well as 2 seat and 5 seat ones, and up to the idris class corvette, which is a ship that can hold up to 10 players, either real or hired NPC's for which the owner of the ship has to pay a salary if they're NPC's....CR is still debating if there will be destroyers( bigger than corvettes) with the ability to land.


For any larger ships than this, such as cruisers, they can only dock at orbital stations around the planet the player is intending to go to, and will obviously require an even larger crew which will get expensive if it's NPC based given the higher number needed to operate the ship.


Anything bigger like battlecruisers, battleships, escort carriers and carriers up to 2 kms long can also dock at these orbital stations, but cannot be purchased at all, cannot be built since there's no blueprints for them but will be added to the game in very limited numbers and players will have to capture them from the NPC's that operate them, and keep them in control for however long they can manage until another player run corp or aliance manages to take it away from them, as the ships can be boarded once their defences are taken out, so they need constant protection 24/7.



It basically makes the smaller ships more usefull if the larger ones will be available in very limited numbers( think bengal carriers and only being 5 of them in game at most), will require hundreds of people to properly operate each one, and if using NPC's on those really large ships, it'll cost a lot of money to pay the crew given the required number needed.


Since i want my ship to land on planets directly, it means either the idris class corvette or a destroyer being the largest i can aim for.....
Tanesha Kring
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#403 - 2013-09-09 05:41:58 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Tollen Gallen wrote:
Tanesha Kring wrote:
raven666wings wrote:
Fala-Berit wrote:
Star Citizen

Player Funded Beta?


Before the beta comes the alpha, which is set to happen sometime in December.


Sort of. The battle arena Alpha will be released. Then it's a planet side social module, then the Squadron 42 Alpha, then the Star Citizen multiplayer Alpha. People keep saying that it's supposed to be released in 2014, but from what I've read the Star Citizen multiplayer will be going Beta late 2014 and the full game will be released in early 2015. However there's nothing set in stone.


Wait..Wot!

Shocked .... Future Players have promised to pay money after a certain stage... or they have handed over cash already?


Nevermind, it does'nt matter it will either do well or fail... if its still going in 2 years i dare say i'll give it a try.

I remember a time when games were released after beta with just a few annoying bugs, these days its now beta with patches and bug fixes rushed out before the player base runs for the hills....

I feel old, and cynical, and this just makes me Grumpy.
Alpha lol.....


It's a crowdfunded game. This means that players have forwarded money in advance to develop the game, in exchange to accesing it once it's done and obtaining certain rewards according to how much they forwarded.


Since this will be the first massively crowdfunded game (currently at $18.3 million and bringing in about 100k a day atm) it will probably have a huge effect on the feasibility of crowdfunding for game development in the future. Not because it's a first, but because it's the biggest crowdfunded production by quite few million. Whether CIGC succeeds on delivering or not it will probably have a major effect on the economics of game development in the future.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#404 - 2013-09-09 06:14:36 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Can they take my money and not deliver the game I expect? Yes. Could I pursue them legally unless it was a blatant scam? No.

So, why did I did it? Hope and trust. If the game fails to deliver, it would be the same as buying it once done and don't like it despite all positive reviews. And if it delivers, I will have a few extra advantages for my trust and a nifty price tag.


Of course it could fairly be said that the risk of doing this is only incrementally higher than buying a $60 game the normal way. You're gambling that you'll get your money worth either way.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#405 - 2013-09-09 09:16:01 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Of course it could fairly be said that the risk of doing this is only incrementally higher than buying a $60 game the normal way. You're gambling that you'll get your money worth either way.


That's what it has come to these days, hu? RollBlink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#406 - 2013-09-09 15:17:07 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Of course it could fairly be said that the risk of doing this is only incrementally higher than buying a $60 game the normal way. You're gambling that you'll get your money worth either way.


That's what it has come to these days, hu? RollBlink


Well, that and pray that you'll be able to connect to a server each time you want to play your game in your computer. Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#407 - 2013-09-10 01:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
I don't see what the big fuss is about since EVE started on pretty shaky legs with only 30 000 subscribers in total and only 4000 online at any given time and it Took CCP 2 years to pay back the developement costs of the game to the publisher, and at any given point in that period, the game could have failed too just like many MMO's did over the years.



I still have the original EVE game CD i bought in 2003 and there was no warranty that the server coud be shut down at any given time, so the only difference is that i payed for star Citizen in advance as it's being developed.....
Tanesha Kring
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#408 - 2013-09-11 10:15:55 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Of course it could fairly be said that the risk of doing this is only incrementally higher than buying a $60 game the normal way. You're gambling that you'll get your money worth either way.


That's what it has come to these days, hu? RollBlink


Well considering that I doubt that Star Citizen would have gotten the support it has received from a publisher just on the bases of being a PC exclusive title it may actually have come to this. This year you have what for AAA, ESO, SC II: Heart of the Swarm, TW: Rome II, Sim CIty and Command and Conquer.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#409 - 2013-09-12 01:39:41 UTC
Tanesha Kring wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Of course it could fairly be said that the risk of doing this is only incrementally higher than buying a $60 game the normal way. You're gambling that you'll get your money worth either way.


That's what it has come to these days, hu? RollBlink


Well considering that I doubt that Star Citizen would have gotten the support it has received from a publisher just on the bases of being a PC exclusive title it may actually have come to this. This year you have what for AAA, ESO, SC II: Heart of the Swarm, TW: Rome II, Sim CIty and Command and Conquer.




Being that the emphasis as far as publishers are concerned is that a given game needs to be able to run on as many Platforms as possible for maximum profit potential, it's not surprising that star Citizen doesn't register on their radar at all, especially since Chris roberts confirmed that the game will require 8 GB of system ram to run at it's best, not to mention the high end CPU and video card requirements......No console or tablet or smartphone on the market is anywhere near these specs, and watering down the game to run on these platforms isn't an option.



Games Wise, there is the upcoming battlefield 4 that also has a 8GB memory requirement for optimal performance, along with a 4 core Intel CPU, GTX680 video card and needs 30 GB of storage......Games are getting pretty big on storage requirements.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#410 - 2013-09-12 02:25:45 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:


Games Wise, there is the upcoming battlefield 4 that also has a 8GB memory requirement for optimal performance, along with a 4 core Intel CPU, GTX680 video card and needs 30 GB of storage......Games are getting pretty big on storage requirements.


I know, I know, the older you get, the more difficult it is to see the difference between a 6 and a 8 but the recommended requirement is a 660.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#411 - 2013-09-12 02:41:26 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:


Games Wise, there is the upcoming battlefield 4 that also has a 8GB memory requirement for optimal performance, along with a 4 core Intel CPU, GTX680 video card and needs 30 GB of storage......Games are getting pretty big on storage requirements.


I know, I know, the older you get, the more difficult it is to see the difference between a 6 and a 8 but the recommended requirement is a 660.




True enough, i mistook the graphics card, but it's all relative to a users setup.......I personally use 3 Samsung SA850 displays which each one has a native resolution of 2560*1440, or 8000*1440 in eyefinity mode with bezel compensation, and i think it's rather pointless to even try to run that to the usual 60 FPS average with a single GTX660 card...:p



In fact, as soon as AMD releases their HD9000 next month, i'll need to get 4 of those for quad crossfire and water cool them too for both overclocking and silence......I'm currently using 4 HD7970's that are also water coled and have been in my system ever since they were released in january 2012.


Yes, i am a PC hardware enthusiast of the highest degree, and willl never use anything else that a very high end PC for gaming......Consoles be damned...Evil


Tanesha Kring
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#412 - 2013-09-12 07:14:50 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:

Games Wise, there is the upcoming battlefield 4 that also has a 8GB memory requirement for optimal performance, along with a 4 core Intel CPU, GTX680 video card and needs 30 GB of storage......Games are getting pretty big on storage requirements.


Well BF4 is being designed to fit the specs of the PS4 and Xbox One as well as having versions for the 360 and PS3. If PC games do not break away from multiplatform development to some extent the technology used in games will continue to idle along with the console markets for years to come. This is especially true considering that outside of exploiting AMDs Graphics Core Next archutecture you're dealing with 8GB RAM and 500GB HDD which will be pretty underwhelming within a couple years.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#413 - 2013-09-12 14:44:32 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Tollen Gallen wrote:
Tanesha Kring wrote:
raven666wings wrote:
Fala-Berit wrote:
Star Citizen

Player Funded Beta?


Before the beta comes the alpha, which is set to happen sometime in December.


Sort of. The battle arena Alpha will be released. Then it's a planet side social module, then the Squadron 42 Alpha, then the Star Citizen multiplayer Alpha. People keep saying that it's supposed to be released in 2014, but from what I've read the Star Citizen multiplayer will be going Beta late 2014 and the full game will be released in early 2015. However there's nothing set in stone.


Wait..Wot!

Shocked .... Future Players have promised to pay money after a certain stage... or they have handed over cash already?


Nevermind, it does'nt matter it will either do well or fail... if its still going in 2 years i dare say i'll give it a try.

I remember a time when games were released after beta with just a few annoying bugs, these days its now beta with patches and bug fixes rushed out before the player base runs for the hills....

I feel old, and cynical, and this just makes me Grumpy.
Alpha lol.....


It's a crowdfunded game. This means that players have forwarded money in advance to develop the game, in exchange to accesing it once it's done and obtaining certain rewards according to how much they forwarded.

FAI, I contributed 60 $, and thus I obtained acces to alpha, beta and the full game, plus an advanced ship ingame with lifetime insurance on the hull, plus a sum of ingame currency, plus a special flight gear for early backers, plus a custom ID card (physical item) and a few more ingame rewards which now I don't recall exactly.

Can they take my money and not deliver the game I expect? Yes. Could I pursue them legally unless it was a blatant scam? No.

So, why did I did it? Hope and trust. If the game fails to deliver, it would be the same as buying it once done and don't like it despite all positive reviews. And if it delivers, I will have a few extra advantages for my trust and a nifty price tag.


Even is it is a "scam", you're not really taking all that much more of a risk that you would be just purchasing a newly released game with bought-and-paid-for "9.5/10 'Amazingly awesome!!!!11'" IGN reviews.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#414 - 2013-09-12 16:57:43 UTC
Alpheias wrote:

Fair enough. Still, in my mind, publishers are a necessary evil in many ways.

Prevent game designers from building air castles while burning money on nothing is one.


More props for RSI for coming up with a successful crowdfunding scheme instead of selling out to other companies, subject to their rules and/or water down the game for playstations or vitas or tablets/smartphones.

Tollen Gallen wrote:

I remember a time when games were released after beta with just a few annoying bugs, these days its now beta with patches and bug fixes rushed out before the player base runs for the hills....
.


Yes, i remember this time too... it was so long ago when games like Dust514 were launched like that... oh wait lolol nvm
Yeah SC fans can relax cause RSI is not CCP. They're not gonna sell the game for petty cash to some console company. The game is already paid for. Plus, even if ppl "run for the hills " like they did in Dust514, it won't be a big deal for this same reason.

Malcanis wrote:

Even is it is a "scam", you're not really taking all that much more of a risk that you would be just purchasing a newly released game with bought-and-paid-for "9.5/10 'Amazingly awesome!!!!11'" IGN reviews.


It would be a more successful scam than asking you to buy a junky 7 year old ps3 for 200€ to play Dust514, it doesn't seem too many people fell for that one Big smileBig smileBig smile
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#415 - 2013-09-12 20:11:06 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Even is it is a "scam", you're not really taking all that much more of a risk that you would be just purchasing a newly released game with bought-and-paid-for "9.5/10 'Amazingly awesome!!!!11'" IGN reviews.


That was my point exactly, crowdfunding is a slower way to find you wasted your money (MechWarrior Online comes to mind) but all in all, gaming being an art, there is no way to ensure you will "fall in love" with the product until you try it.

While I was out of EVE, I bought and tried several games, and the record was like:

- Fallout New Vegas: miss. I doubt I will ever have enough spare time to give it a second try ahead of new games.
- X3 Albion Prelude: safe bet, but already been there, done that
- Far Cry 2: not perfect, but totally hit home
- Deus Ex Human Revolution: hit home, may be back some day
- Guild Wars 2: totally hit, is the "theme park" that has lasted me longer (and some day I'll be back)

So my "buyer sense" is pretty accurate. I hope I still will be able to enjoy a Chris Roberts game, after so many years...

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#416 - 2013-09-13 00:55:06 UTC
Tanesha Kring wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:

Games Wise, there is the upcoming battlefield 4 that also has a 8GB memory requirement for optimal performance, along with a 4 core Intel CPU, GTX680 video card and needs 30 GB of storage......Games are getting pretty big on storage requirements.


Well BF4 is being designed to fit the specs of the PS4 and Xbox One as well as having versions for the 360 and PS3. If PC games do not break away from multiplatform development to some extent the technology used in games will continue to idle along with the console markets for years to come. This is especially true considering that outside of exploiting AMDs Graphics Core Next archutecture you're dealing with 8GB RAM and 500GB HDD which will be pretty underwhelming within a couple years.




That's what worries me as the PS4 is a DX11.1 capable machine and 8 GB of ram, and an X-86 CPU, and the PS3 is still stuck with DX9 and way less onboard memory and a RISC style processor, so it'll be interesting to see how dice handles BF4 on what are basically very different machines to begin with.


A friend of mine actually has a PS3 and is a big fan of BF3, and was shocked when he tried the PC version of BF3, where the particle effects and explosions were much more detailed, some of the larger maps only come on the PC version, not to mention that only the PC version hosts 64 player games, while the PS3 is limited to 32 players online.


So with BF4 looking even better than BF3 and being more demanding, how are dice going to pull it off on a console that's 7 years old in terms of design, and not making visual quality gap between the console version and the PC version even more noticable than it already is with BF3 is beyond me.....It'll be much easier with the PS4 obviously to minimize any gap between it and the PC version since it's a much more recent design, but i suspect PS3 owners will be dissapointed big time.
Tanesha Kring
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#417 - 2013-09-13 05:30:42 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:

That's what worries me as the PS4 is a DX11.1 capable machine and 8 GB of ram, and an X-86 CPU, and the PS3 is still stuck with DX9 and way less onboard memory and a RISC style processor, so it'll be interesting to see how dice handles BF4 on what are basically very different machines to begin with.


A friend of mine actually has a PS3 and is a big fan of BF3, and was shocked when he tried the PC version of BF3, where the particle effects and explosions were much more detailed, some of the larger maps only come on the PC version, not to mention that only the PC version hosts 64 player games, while the PS3 is limited to 32 players online.


So with BF4 looking even better than BF3 and being more demanding, how are dice going to pull it off on a console that's 7 years old in terms of design, and not making visual quality gap between the console version and the PC version even more noticable than it already is with BF3 is beyond me.....It'll be much easier with the PS4 obviously to minimize any gap between it and the PC version since it's a much more recent design, but i suspect PS3 owners will be dissapointed big time.


Well DX 9 means that there will not be anti-aliasing and tessellation and I assume that the models used will be lower LoD models from the PC, PS4 and Xbox One versions and the larger maps will not be found in the older consoles. I wouldn't expect those versions to be significantly different from BF3 in terms of media quality. Just because you are dealing with five different versions though it means more work hours in testing and bug fixes that will likely go into the back end of development so six months of bug fixes after release is probably a given. Expect a lot disappointment all around.
Tanesha Kring
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#418 - 2013-09-13 08:44:00 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

That was my point exactly, crowdfunding is a slower way to find you wasted your money (MechWarrior Online comes to mind) but all in all, gaming being an art, there is no way to ensure you will "fall in love" with the product until you try it. .


It's basically true, but you can also say the same thing about practices like buying good reviews, gaming reviews and preorders (Aliens Colonial Marines comes to mind) and preorder incentives. A lot of, especially hardcore gamers buy their games (at least in there heads) when a game is announced and there already committed by the time of release. The difference isn't really that great except the game could never be released and you lose a few bucks. MWO is sort of special however in that Piranha Games made a lot of mistakes from out of the gate including how they handled the MW fandbase, lack of consistency (only consistent in its lack of) and focus, poor game balance (turnbased pnp rules do not translate seamlessly to a videogame, especially an fps) and instituting pay-to-win. If anything we can now all see and understand why Piranha Games has never really pulled off making a game that's more than mediocre.
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#419 - 2013-09-13 12:59:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Anyone can make a lot of promises. Delivering on them is harder.



Yeah like WIS.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#420 - 2013-09-14 02:02:29 UTC
Tanesha Kring wrote:


Well DX 9 means that there will not be anti-aliasing and tessellation and I assume that the models used will be lower LoD models from the PC, PS4 and Xbox One versions and the larger maps will not be found in the older consoles. I wouldn't expect those versions to be significantly different from BF3 in terms of media quality. Just because you are dealing with five different versions though it means more work hours in testing and bug fixes that will likely go into the back end of development so six months of bug fixes after release is probably a given. Expect a lot disappointment all around.



Especially tesselation, and it being used extensively on characters, weapons, water, land and air vehicles and the overall environment itself, not to mention textures and the amount and resolution they'll use, or particle effects they can use with the PS3's limited abilities by today's standards.....i expect the game won't even be close to looking the same as the PC or Xbox one or the PS4 version.