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New Dev Blog: Player-owned Customs Office

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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#1741 - 2011-11-14 20:12:05 UTC
The "changes" are on the test server. I deployed a POCO there. There is only 1 change I have noticed from the devblog, and that's the option to set different rates by corp/alliance and standings.

Everything else I could see (build cost, HP, restrictions) remains as it was on the devblog, and CONCORD offices have been removed from lowsec.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#1742 - 2011-11-14 20:41:19 UTC
CCP!!!!

Please change your plans for low sec COs!!!

You will ruin PI for many and just add new static pirate hobby targets!

You will once again screw the little guy with your low sec CO plans!!!

Issler
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#1743 - 2011-11-14 21:13:23 UTC
Jack Dant wrote:
The "changes" are on the test server. I deployed a POCO there. There is only 1 change I have noticed from the devblog, and that's the option to set different rates by corp/alliance and standings.

Everything else I could see (build cost, HP, restrictions) remains as it was on the devblog, and CONCORD offices have been removed from lowsec.


Likewise in nul-sec. I'm looking at my planets right now and I have no way of getting the materials off the planet (CC is on the otherside of the planet.)

CCP has not listened to a damn thing that has been said, and is just blindly charging on with this mess, which incidently is perfectly on par as far as PI is concerned, and has been since day one.

So much for the new CCP.

One bil capital expenditure now to continue my colonies?? **** off.



I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Zleon Leigh
#1744 - 2011-11-14 21:36:58 UTC
Someone mentioned stockpiling PI in another thread. Certainly might have been an attempt to manipulate the market, but honestly, I'd suggest all independent PI producers start stockpiling. Obvious now that this is going to be a huge you know what...

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Mal Nina
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#1745 - 2011-11-14 23:47:47 UTC
Just to build on the numbers a bit.

Assumptions:
2% tax on PI product value (upped from 1.7 as given in earlier post)
150 mil a month in product creation (2 charactors, 4/5 skills on both)
10 planets
20 corp members doing PI.

Costs 100 mil for each POCO to install. x 10 planets

The math.

2% of 150 mil is 3 mil. 3 mil x 20 players is 60 mil a month in taxes generated. Cost was 1 Bil to install the entire network, that gives you a ROI of 16.67 months. So for you to start generating a profit is 17 months. Does not sound like a good idea to me for any small corperation. Even larger ones may suffer.

So if this is all about putting the power back in the hands of the players and giving something for corperations to make money from your wrong. Your own numbers do not justify it except for large (huge) alliances that have a fairly defendable area and can run operations 24 hours a day to defend thier intial investment. I know there is a 24 hour timer, however putting these into reinforcement is going to be just the start. At some point someone else will come along to destroy the ones coming out of reinforcement and the owning corperation will just not have enough people on to do anything about it. its just too juicy a target and too costly for owning corps not to.

So if this was to give small corps/alliances a chance at a pot of gold you have missed your mark. There is no gold at the end of this rainbow, just misery and missed opportunity.


It does however give the new NAGA and Talos something to shoot at and provides a unique niche for these ships.
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1746 - 2011-11-15 00:00:01 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
words

You forget that far too many people, possibly myself included, will decide that if our most enjoyed playstyle (wormholes in this case, high dependence on PI fuels) winds up becoming overly dependent on things we have no control over we'll simply consider other games instead. The one thing I can do in this game right now with little to no interference from others is create the PI pos fuels I need to keep my pos running. It's not too much to ask to allow for at least one little area of independence from the cacophony of the rest of the game.

Sometimes I want a little "me" time.
That is a fair take on things and, as you state, a common state of affairs regarding POS fuel generation in either worm holes or for more peaceful activities sandwiched by the cacophony of corp / alliance activities.

If you live in a corp or alliance held hole, do you believe that this change will be debilitating once the gantries and POCOs are set up and configured? I am making the assumption that the hole-holding entity sets up the POCOs and grants access to all interested parties.

Regarding other games, I completely understand. I am waiting to see how this PI + POCO + DUST stuff plays out over the next few months, as well. Lots of other engrossing entertainment options out there and CCP's grasp on my computer time has vastly decreased of late.

I wonder what CCP's take is on how many individual players and smaller entities will be driven away from PI activities. And how they factor that into their grand scheme for the DUST roll-out.

p.s. fxck you CCP forums. I copied my post into the clipboard and foiled yet another attempt the eat content.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1747 - 2011-11-15 01:04:47 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
So without going through 83 pages to see if this has been asked (apologies if it has)

What happens to my PI that is sitting in NPC customs when this change happens? Disappears? Gets moved to a NPC station nearby?

Can't send it back to the planet because my storage there may be full... and I certainly don't want to be paying another fricken round of export taxes, especially the ridiculous double taxes....


CCP - Congrats on continuing to gank PI producers... did the PI dev do something to **** all the other dev's off?






It will be ported automatically to a nearby (relatively speaking) station - CCP hasn't said exactly how this will be determined, but point is you won't loose your stuff -

This was answered directly by CCP in this thread.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Mal Nina
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#1748 - 2011-11-15 01:09:47 UTC
It is only sort of answered. If you are in a system with no station then were does it go?
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1749 - 2011-11-15 01:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kassasis Dakkstromri
Issler Dainze wrote:
CCP!!!!

Please change your plans for low sec COs!!!

You will ruin PI for many and just add new static pirate hobby targets!

You will once again screw the little guy with your low sec CO plans!!!

Issler



Has anyone noticed this announcement?

Final Feature Build on Singularity for Winter 2011 expansion

So Grab your arses everyone, and secure your bars of soap, because whatever comes in Team Pi's devblog is probably what we're gonna be getting for Winter!

So in preparation to say goodbye to Low Sec PI access: Here's to the the PI Operators in Low Sec...

Quote:
Should Old Acquaintance be forgot,
and never thought upon;
The flames of Love extinguished,
and fully past and gone:
Is thy sweet Heart now grown so cold,
that loving Breast of thine;
That thou canst never once reflect
on Old long syne.



... well you can hum the rest...

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1750 - 2011-11-15 01:15:00 UTC
Mal Nina wrote:
It is only sort of answered. If you are in a system with no station then were does it go?



It will still port to a station - that's why I mentioned 'relative'.... even if the next station is 10 jumps, thats probably where it will end up... thought is is plausible that CCP might be nice enough to just port it all to a HI Sec NPC station....

... it will end up in a station 'somewhere'


*(Wizard of Oz song coming on.... Some where over the rainbow......... )

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Zleon Leigh
#1751 - 2011-11-15 01:26:07 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
So without going through 83 pages to see if this has been asked (apologies if it has)

What happens to my PI that is sitting in NPC customs when this change happens? Disappears? Gets moved to a NPC station nearby?

Can't send it back to the planet because my storage there may be full... and I certainly don't want to be paying another fricken round of export taxes, especially the ridiculous double taxes....


CCP - Congrats on continuing to gank PI producers... did the PI dev do something to **** all the other dev's off?






It will be ported automatically to a nearby (relatively speaking) station - CCP hasn't said exactly how this will be determined, but point is you won't loose your stuff -

This was answered directly by CCP in this thread.


Well that would be just great - except if it goes to a station that I don't have access too...

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1752 - 2011-11-15 01:32:08 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
So without going through 83 pages to see if this has been asked (apologies if it has)

What happens to my PI that is sitting in NPC customs when this change happens? Disappears? Gets moved to a NPC station nearby?

Can't send it back to the planet because my storage there may be full... and I certainly don't want to be paying another fricken round of export taxes, especially the ridiculous double taxes....


CCP - Congrats on continuing to gank PI producers... did the PI dev do something to **** all the other dev's off?






It will be ported automatically to a nearby (relatively speaking) station - CCP hasn't said exactly how this will be determined, but point is you won't loose your stuff -

This was answered directly by CCP in this thread.


Well that would be just great - except if it goes to a station that I don't have access too...



Will only be NPC stations mate - no Outposts

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Zleon Leigh
#1753 - 2011-11-15 01:41:26 UTC
eh, it doesn't matter. Player owned customs are just going to be gank sites in anything but HiSec. ("Hey gang - just saw tax revenue come in - P3M4 - Get him!")

Screw it, I'm out of PI

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#1754 - 2011-11-15 01:45:43 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:

Has anyone noticed this announcement?
Final Feature Build on Singularity for Winter 2011 expansion

Yes I have. And I tried that new SiSi build. Customs Office Gantry's are no longer seeded on the market. Makes you wonder......

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1755 - 2011-11-15 01:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kassasis Dakkstromri
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:

Has anyone noticed this announcement?
Final Feature Build on Singularity for Winter 2011 expansion

Yes I have. And I tried that new SiSi build. Customs Office Gantry's are no longer seeded on the market. Makes you wonder......



.... actually it just means CCP is putting a lump of coal in our PI stockings this year...

CCP redefining the meaning of

Quote:
"no good deed goes unpunished..."

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#1756 - 2011-11-15 01:59:31 UTC
So the new "responsive to the players" after 85 pages of responses, most being negative and against aspects of this change, many containing well constructed finacial models where these things can't pay for themselves has decided to ignore all feedback.

Awesome!

Can't wait to see the next way CCP can find to drive all the small corps, casual and independent players out of their game. Actually this is even worse, you can be hard core and large and the numbers just don't work.

How about this CCP, tie ammo damage and resists to the size of your alliance! Or transaction taxes! Let's get rid of those pesky players that won't just up and join a huge alliance!

This from the only game company with a full time ecconomist!

A sad example of how the "new responsive to the players" CCP appears to be anything but.

Issler
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#1757 - 2011-11-15 04:35:29 UTC
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:

Has anyone noticed this announcement?
Final Feature Build on Singularity for Winter 2011 expansion

Yes I have. And I tried that new SiSi build. Customs Office Gantry's are no longer seeded on the market. Makes you wonder......


So Nullabor decided to crap all over everyone's concerns because he's too emotionally attached to a mediocre plan with a crap implementation.

Nice job CCP. Real effing nice.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Mishatola
Atoll Explorers
#1758 - 2011-11-15 05:02:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mishatola
Some thoughts around enabling people to get around the coming high taxes and the effects thereof.

1. Greatly reduce the time between expedited transfers.
2. increase the size of the storage in the command center.
3. Allow the owners of the Customers office to have an estimate of how much goods (as a percent) where launched in the past week versus using there CO. - Gives them a real incentive to lower tax rates. - or make them higher i suppose if its low percentage.
4. Allow the CC to be moved with out destroying the entire colony. - For those of us who have never used it and really don't want to rebuild our colony. I have a few that are a LONG ways away lol. - I wouldn't mind paying the entire cost of the colony again.. just don't want to do the rebuilding.

On the other hand...

To make the CO more competitive with launching how about allowing the transfers from storage to the CO if your able to scan planents in that system? Will give that "Remote Sensing" skill a kick in the pants.
Mishatola
Atoll Explorers
#1759 - 2011-11-15 05:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mishatola
Was thinking about DUST. This is a bit far off i know but...

Will dust players be able to destroy the CO? That would be cool.

AND launch there own CO?

Or maybe for more competition (potential) they have a different method of get PI off planets, one that only DUST players can fight over. A massive launch pad...

Which just like using the CC, would have the built in benefit of NOT being at a know stationary place... as an aid to avoid pirates.
Ines Fy
#1760 - 2011-11-15 09:58:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ines Fy
Looking to these changes I did some accounting and by Jita prices each CO cost 75M+20M BPC+concord points to build. Having in mind the planets I'm located only have 5-7 CCs I can count, not even in 2 years with taxes at 100% I will get my money back. And If I put taxes at 100% all PI clients will leave soon (tm).

Also every pirate and alliance in the game will look for COs that belong to small corps, like mine (4 chars), and ask for a ransom to not to kill them and when we do not comply, guess? -> Industrial small corps have no chance to defend them.

CO's are too expensive to build, so for me to risk placing 7 or 8 and try to explore them, having in mind a 2 year plus turnaround and the 99% risk of losing them in the first month... yes right... no way

Only if we could INSURE THEM, in low sec!

That would mitigate the risk of losing them and lower the losses to a minimum. Taking the huge loss risk from the the equation and transforming it in a small loss problem will make the difference!

Having the possibility of insure custom offices will make a huge difference and save low sec PI. I would invest the money and try to explore 7 or 8 of them and see what happens ... and If one day I loose 70-80M, OK, it was a good try and I can live with that. Losing 700-800 M I cannot live with that!