Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yes i am, if you go OMG that ship is amazing the devs did something wrong. That only happens if stuff is op (look at ABCs, everyone was super happy about them, compare them to the new dessies, nearly no one was hyped which is a clear sign that they are nicely done).

And it doesnt strike you as op as hell if 2 deimos can take 2 cs, 3 hacs and 1 bs up front and kill 3 ships ebfore they die?

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From what ive seen on the test server:

Deimos is to good, ishtar (with sentrys) is to good, zealot is way to slow and gets totally replaced by the legion for brawling and by the Nomen for kiting, sacrilege is good (mayve a bit to strong, not sure). Vaga is a amazing anti kiting ship yet sucks still as a kiter , muninn is utter crap i fear, cerb is good 450dps at 70km with rlmls or 700 at 40km not sure if not to good, cant judge eagle from flying or fighting it but i think it could be a monster in fleets.

Railbuff + deimos is over the top, and stop seeding unique ships on the server (and caps of all kinds).

Make the "No caps" system the default system you get moved into

The test server... uhm... inhabitants? Yes lets go with that.. Yea they are awful. Back when i was testing the Talwar a vindicator i had tackled warped a thanatos on grid to rep him -_-

Calling it now: new player, hasn't looked around.

Eagle doesn't suck now and it counters sniper ABCs, it's just sitting in a very, very narrow niche.

Not OP at all. We did everything right in that fight. We managed our ranges and transversals, applied heat to knock out priority targets, pulled a ship just outside his gang's engagement range to buy us time to kill it...

Two ships winning that kind of fight doesn't mean it's OP. Tactics do count for something, you know. If you must know, the ship that gave us the hardest time and forced us to retreat was a lone Sacrilege with skirmish links. I think you're just intent on being sore at this point.

You don't use hacs in big scale engagements, their price and the t1 buff see to that. And mwd hacs do see some use.

CCP Rise, please reread the in-game description of the deimos' bonuses. It does not have any sort of "MWD cap use bonus." It has a bonus to compensate for the MWD capacitor penalty. Because of this the bonus is "useful when not MWDing as well;" a fact which the statement I just quoted would suggest is not the case. It's incredibly frustrating when you, as a developer, either word things in a confusing manner or are outright wrong with regards to a ship's given bonus.

That said...

I don't understand why you say, "The MWD cap use bonus earned the Deimos 4.5 cap per second." Even when using an A-Type MWD with a 3% capacitor amount penalty, and subsequently a 22% capacitor amount bonus, the ship saw an average capacitor regeneration of 5.009 cap per second. 1678 / 335. Compared to the base regeneration value of 4.1/second that's an increase of only .909/second, not 4.5. Even the peak/EFT recharge rate only goes up by approximately 2.2 cap/second.

I'm also not sure that further reducing the ship's capacitor recharge rate to compensate for the loss of what amounts to a capacitor amount bonus is a good idea. The ship might still have higher capacitor regeneration amounts than it does now, but it will be at the cost of dropping from 1678 capacitor with an A-Type MWD and 1375 with a T1 MWD to, post-change and factoring in the +25 capacitor amount, 1358 and 1050 respectively.

It seems to me that this method of compensating for the removal of the MWD capacitor amount penalty reduction bonus will also increase the ship's vulnerability to neutralizers. In light of the removal of the ship's "utility" high slot this can be viewed as a "double whammy" to the ship's vulnerability to capacitor warfare.

You could achieve the same average capacitor regeneration amount of 6.2/second by increasing the ship's capacitor amount from 1375 to 1581 instead of dropping the recharge time from (I believe) 255s to 225s. While this wouldn't have fully compensated the ship's increased capacitor warfare vulnerability for people fitting T1 modules it would still have resulted in a loss of only 13.763~%, 1375 to 1185.75, compared to the current deimos' capacitor amount with a T1 MWD equipped. This also wouldn't have resulted in as high of a "maximum" capacitor value either. With an A-Type MWD the ship's capacitor value would be 1533.57, a drop of 8.6% capacitor amount compared to current value of 1678.

To be honest I don't really like the change. I see it as removing yet another relatively unique and interesting bonus from the game, and much as a repair bonus might be more beneficial to the PvE uses I put my deimos to than the MWD bonus is I still don't appreciate losing that bit of flavor. I don't believe every ship in the game should be a special little snowflake, but when you remove bonuses like this from various ships the game gets a little more dull. Hell, I wouldn't have much liked it, and it certainly wouldn't have been nearly as useful in PvE, but I'd have preferred a 10% armor bonus for the deimos over a repair bonus.

Also, you might want to edit your second post again. When you edited in the change to the deimos' second GalCru bonus you invalidated your previous statement about not changing said bonus.


When I glanced over the post to see if any new changes had occurred seeing "we're not changing the MWD bonus" followed by no MWD bonus and a repair bonus instead my immediate response was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEtRoZ5FWNc

If Muninn and Eagle are for fleets with 20+ ships or only can do roles in those fleets, why must I fly them instead of Vulture or Sleipnir? Both of them better for sniping or long range combat, have better tank and can provide fleet bonuses (if other can't do it).

Same true if you'll take Tengu or Loki. They cost more, but better in all aspects.

We will see Muninn rarely, but Eagle will disappear from space.

Some numbers on new HACs below:
Muninn------- aling time 6.3 s, speed with MWD 1732 m/s
Vagabond -- 5.5 s, 2453 m/s
Ishtar--------- 5.4 s, 1663 m/s
Deimos------ 5.1 s, 1925 m/s
Zealot-------- 6.5 s, 1662 m/s
Sacrilege---- 6.2 s, 1649 m/s
Cerberus---- 5.5 s, 1730 m/s
Eagle--------- 6.3 s, 1487 m/s

Your wrong about the Cerb, for a start the damage increase is fantastic, second with HAMs it hits reliably out to 40, thats huge because of the mechanics of missile flight.

The Cerb will be amazing post patch, I'll probably use it as my go to kiting platform instead of the Vaga tbh.

I think you guys are over inflating the Deimos quite a bit in situations that are unrealistic on the live server. You're also not considering all the changes combined that are going to affect live doctrine changes that will hit as a result of 1.1 or the prior patches.

These hacs are not that great and with some of the changes coming, I think you're going to quickly find out how isolated their roles really are.

Everyone keeps saying OMG Deimos.... when at basically reasonably comparable speeds and engagement ranges, a massively superior tank and slot options, you have a claymore that is going to dominate the countryside of small scale PvP.

You're going to start to feel real little when the meta game hits you on live that's not currently hitting you on the test server.

What's even more sad is that the other hacs really have no legitimate roles either and are going to be trumped so heavily by superior choices within the overall meta, that I just can't see them being used at any higher level. Every one of these ships is going to be novelty use only post 1.1.... people just aren't grasping that yet.

WTF is your point... we're talking about a role. People keep praising the Diemos speed, tank, and dps... all of which get obsoleted and vastly trumped by the overall effects of a Claymore. So tell me, why are you going to fly a Deimos in that case?