These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers - round two

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Krissinator
No strings attached foundation
#2001 - 2013-08-13 20:59:04 UTC
Quote:
If you're worried about AB bonused HACs with 100 mn fits, CCP could easily make 100 mn propmods BS only.


INDEED!
Weasel Leblanc
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2002 - 2013-08-13 21:08:20 UTC
I'm not sure how often this has been pointed out, but... why does the Zealot have a tankier slot layout than the Sacreliege when the Sac is the one with the tank bonuses and the higher EHP? Seems kind of off, from where I'm standing.

In other news, I am exceptionally pleased that the new Ishtar isn't getting the same "HA HA NO GUNS" treatment as the Navy Vexor. However, having all the ship's HP hiding in hull, where it gets no benefit from tech 2 resists, seems exceptionally silly.
Baron vonDoom
Scorn.
#2003 - 2013-08-13 21:25:50 UTC
Krissinator wrote:
Quote:
If you're worried about AB bonused HACs with 100 mn fits, CCP could easily make 100 mn propmods BS only.


INDEED!



Well - they should just make sure they only do it after HACs get a different bonus - I'm just on Sisi and god do they suck - 100 MN HM Sac is the only way I can imagine flying that POS atm.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#2004 - 2013-08-13 21:39:37 UTC
Krissinator wrote:
Quote:
If you're worried about AB bonused HACs with 100 mn fits, CCP could easily make 100 mn propmods BS only.


INDEED!



They could also make it so the bonus only applies to the 10 mn afterburners.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2005 - 2013-08-13 21:41:50 UTC
Baron vonDoom wrote:
If you're worried about AB bonused HACs with 100 mn fits, CCP could easily make 100 mn propmods BS only.

Personally I can't think of creating artificial rules to prevent oversized module fitting as a good thing for any reason.
Baron vonDoom
Scorn.
#2006 - 2013-08-13 21:51:29 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Baron vonDoom wrote:
If you're worried about AB bonused HACs with 100 mn fits, CCP could easily make 100 mn propmods BS only.

Personally I can't think of creating artificial rules to prevent oversized module fitting as a good thing for any reason.



I completely agree - I even miss dual propmods being able to be activated the same time - left more room for creativity and surprising fits, but if it is what it takes to fix HACs and prevent that awful role bonus, I'd bite the bullet.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#2007 - 2013-08-13 21:51:36 UTC
Krissinator wrote:
Quote:
If you're worried about AB bonused HACs with 100 mn fits, CCP could easily make 100 mn propmods BS only.


INDEED!


Nah, reducing fitting abilitys is bad imo. Its a core feature of eve, heavy neut curse and 100mn tengu and co are good things, not bad ones.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#2008 - 2013-08-13 22:36:30 UTC
RISE

the deimos hull is based on the thorax ..
Thorax- 120
Vigilant - 130
Deimos - 150 ??

The pattern is somewhat off .. considering the Thorax is an attack cruiser...
Thorax - 240m/s
Vigilant - 206 m/s
Deimos - 230m/s

Surely the vigilant should have the highest sig radius as it is the slowest... granted it will get buffed at some point.
But it is a blaster boat at heart and they need all the help they can get to survive incoming damage as they approach a target..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#2009 - 2013-08-13 22:38:43 UTC
Torrema Sinclair wrote:
Grey Stone wrote:
Jysella Halcyon wrote:
Rise, I'm gathering that you're trying to take the Cruiser/HAC relationship in the same direction as the Frigate/AF balance with the role bonus and the "super cruisers for gank/tank/resilience" line.


The niche and power doesn't justify the price. Bring a fitted HAC down to the 90-120M price range so they can compete with the fair BCs and broken ABCs on a level playing field and make a legitimate choice hapen. Just a simple reduction in the T2 materials involved in new builds would do it.



Thank you very much for taking time to write such elaborate post. Right on spot imho!



BLASPHEMY!!! Dont do eeeettt! Prizes are fine as they are now. .


First, *prices.

More importantly, the price:power ratio for HACs is far worse than AFs, and as such they won't become popular after the patch like AFs did.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#2010 - 2013-08-13 22:43:41 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Go on SiSi, fit one properly and if you can't ask someone to tell you how to, then try to take strong boosters fit pirate implants use OGB then come here tell us how bad your vaga is.


So you mean I have to spend 1.1b on low grade crystals for my 150m Vagabond to be useful?
Or pay another $15/month?

"Spend 7x more isk than you are on your hull on implants" isn't something everyone is able or willing to do, and its not a valid excuse for leaving the Vagabond in its poor overall condition.

Kahega Amielden wrote:
Let's not forget that new Vaga is now cap stable with its MWD active. In addition to all the other changes, this means that it can kite for as long as it wants to, which it wasn't able to before.


With or without a point running?

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#2011 - 2013-08-13 23:38:57 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Go on SiSi, fit one properly and if you can't ask someone to tell you how to, then try to take strong boosters fit pirate implants use OGB then come here tell us how bad your vaga is.


So you mean I have to spend 1.1b on low grade crystals for my 150m Vagabond to be useful?
Or pay another $15/month?

"Spend 7x more isk than you are on your hull on implants" isn't something everyone is able or willing to do, and its not a valid excuse for leaving the Vagabond in its poor overall condition.




Considering what's wrong with the game currently, Mikey just gave us the perfect description. Nothing wrong with boosters or imps.

If you want to use a HAC It's 'use an OGB or die' - otherwise get slaughtered by a T1 frig (yay - Zealot still getting no drone bay).
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Asa Shahni
Inevitable Outcome
E.C.H.O
#2012 - 2013-08-13 23:42:01 UTC
the sac need love not some HML bonus that no one use ...get that spare high in the lows
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2013 - 2013-08-14 00:14:31 UTC
Asa Shahni wrote:
the sac need love not some HML bonus that no one use ...get that spare high in the lows

it works on HAMs too.
Gargantoi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2014 - 2013-08-14 01:07:08 UTC
When u specialize a t2 ship after its t1 version ..u should look into some things ...speed / tank / dmg / range / tracking and ofc with the last patches ccp did they looked probably @ star wars or some ****
In eve is not about a "ship" war is about the ISK war ..if u go up vs 4 cruisers and u kill 3 but the 4th kills your hac ..u lose the isk war
Some ships get a buff others get _|_ ..i call that bs .
Cerberus / muninn / eagle / sacrilege this ships wont be used ..even after the patch ..

For cerb /sacrilege heavy missiles r way to nerfed atm to do proper dmg ..ham's got bad range and dmg gets reduced to much when ship moves
For muninn + eagle ...if i wanna snipe with 720mm i use cane if i wanna snipe with a caldari ship i just get naga ..eagle wont fit


The faults u guys made over the past year/years were that u introduced things that werent needed and u guys nerf stuff to fast and to much witouth talking with the people first..and i mean people who pvp ..not people who rat
U nerfed nos in 2008 ..now u bringing it back because it wasnt used anymore *facepalms
U nerfed heavy missiles ..cerb + sacrilege wont work ..not to mention the new nighthawk wich is absolutelly crap
U are calling this a hac boost or a t2 rebalance patch ?? I call this a joke ..u guys arent taking the game serious ...the changes u make are not tought trough ..how will they affect the players how will they affect the price ..how will they affect some implants (talisman set for nos)
What i see now from u guys is ..making everything expencive and witouth a purpose so we spend X hours of playing to make bilions then to lose them instantlly ..i mean lets face it ..whats 1 bilion isk now ? in 2008 u could buy 1 year of gtc or like 20 dominix'es ..command ships were 110 mil and hac's were 80 m then ..1 bilion was worth something ..now with 1 bil u barelly buy 3 fleet bs's ..then again ..is a business and it needs to make money ..show a shinny trailer atract new people and get customers to pay 35$ for gtc's but the old players know that is the same bullshit in this game as allways .
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2015 - 2013-08-14 01:09:56 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Go on SiSi, fit one properly and if you can't ask someone to tell you how to, then try to take strong boosters fit pirate implants use OGB then come here tell us how bad your vaga is.


So you mean I have to spend 1.1b on low grade crystals for my 150m Vagabond to be useful?
Or pay another $15/month?

"Spend 7x more isk than you are on your hull on implants" isn't something everyone is able or willing to do, and its not a valid excuse for leaving the Vagabond in its poor overall condition.

Kahega Amielden wrote:
Let's not forget that new Vaga is now cap stable with its MWD active. In addition to all the other changes, this means that it can kite for as long as it wants to, which it wasn't able to before.


With or without a point running?


Kahega has a very valid point here. Previously, an armour brawler could kill (or force the retreat of) a vaga simply by burning towards him using cap boosters. That's no longer possible. This makes the Vaga a lot more dangerous to small gangs and solo pilots.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2016 - 2013-08-14 02:15:26 UTC
So I have spent 12 hours flying the new HACs on Sisi. They are excellent and provide a whole new world of choice for skirmishing.

I live in WH space, where up until now it's been pretty much T3 or nothing.

As of today, it will be viable to field a squad of HACs to take down an opposing fleet. This gives us choice, tactical options and increased enjoyment.

+1

Thanks for the good work.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#2017 - 2013-08-14 04:33:00 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Baron vonDoom wrote:
If you're worried about AB bonused HACs with 100 mn fits, CCP could easily make 100 mn propmods BS only.

Personally I can't think of creating artificial rules to prevent oversized module fitting as a good thing for any reason.


Are you forgetting that oversized prop is broken as ****?
Ahnn
Space Zombiez
#2018 - 2013-08-14 05:02:50 UTC
Rynnik wrote:
Ahnn wrote:
CCP, you guys need to look at why the Deimos is called the "Diemost" by players. Think on it. Meditate on it. Mull it over. Then ask yourselves exactly why you lowered its survivability even more. Then explain to us here why you did it. Maybe you're seeing something that we don't, but if your version hit's live, it's gonna go from being the "Diemost" to the "Never fly. Under any circumstances. Ever."

With all that negative stuff over with, gotta say that I'm very intrigued by the Ishtar.


Dude, I think you are operating on old information. Check the updated OP.

The Deimos gains tank on every level, has an amazing sig rad role bonus being added, AND is getting a rep bonus.

P

That hull is getting more survivable from the current TQ version in every way that a ship can.


Edit: see you cut your post - you would have been correct with the first proposed changes though so it was probably an honest mistake - Rise fixed it up for us though.



Yup, that's exactly what happened. I had an old version of the page loaded when I read the initially proposed changes. So I made my post, reloaded the first page, and read that it had been updated/changed.

Very glad to see the Deimos get some love. Hopefully, the signature radius buff it's getting will be more substantial than the very mediocre HP buff it got. The rep bonus... gotta give that a "we'll see". Would be nice to have an active tank, without the speed penalty of fat plates, but throwing an active rep, an MWD, and cap hungry blasters on it might very well prove to be difficult. Actually being able to use (as in get them to fit and have a decent amount of cap time) the modules needed to take advantage of the ships bonuses would be the best bonus of all.

Time to get on Sisi and take the new Gallente ships out for a spin.
Devon Weeks
Asteroid Mining Industries
Salt Mining Industrialists
#2019 - 2013-08-14 06:27:10 UTC
Quote:
Time to get on Sisi and take the new Gallente ships out for a spin.


Take it from someone who's been getting blown up repeatedly and taking targets with me in the new Deimos. It's just swell. Lol

This is my favorite hull. I've only really gotten to upengage battleship fleets with booster support, but a buddy of mine and I in two Deimos not 10 minutes ago just fought a Sleipner, Astarte, three Vagabonds, and a geddon. We actually lasted under neut and fire through three kills before going down. Can't really ask for much else. Excellent, CCP. These are true front line hulls now.

Well, at least I'm happy. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me why I'm wrong.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#2020 - 2013-08-14 06:59:52 UTC
Devon Weeks wrote:
Well, at least I'm happy. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me why I'm wrong.

Mumble, mumble, Vaga, mumble mumble, kiting, mumble, "useless" bonuses, mumble, damage application.

Eagle and Mun are the only ones that aren't really nice at something now and all the Min pilots are talking about the 'Better at Everything, but Somehow Worse: Vaga.'