Player Features and Ideas Discussion

How does buffing all Pith L and XL boosters by the same 15% result in a reduced advantage? Any buff to the L and XL Deadspace/Officer shield boosters should be maybe 5%, not the 10% Fozzie has proposed, and definitely not the full 15% that armor reppers and T1/T2 shield boosters are getting.

Not all boosters are created equally, and that's the rub. The gap between them and t2 shield stuff is the same as the gap between deadpsace armor and t2 armor reps, meaning the Pith boosters should get the same 15%. Pithum medium and Gist X-L are the ones that are out of line. Basically all t2 and ALL faction have 1.5 Hp/GJ (Gigajoule) efficiency. Faction versions have better cycle time. Then C-types have a 10% increase in efficiency over t2. B-types have a 20% higher efficiency, and so on. This is how it works for ALL armor modules as well (i'm fairly sure, except armor start with 2hp/GJ baseline). But small/med deadspace, and large/XL Gist are just INEXPLICABLY off the charts on this metric.

Shields are supposed to rep faster and be less efficient than armor, and thats true for all t1, t2, faction modules of either shield or armor. But SOME (not all) of the deadspace shield mods throw this out the window and outclass their armor counterparts on both counts of efficiency and speed.

Dread Guristas Medium Shield Booster: 1.5 Hp/GJ
Pithum C-type Medium Shield booster: 2.71 Hp/GJ (more efficient than any armor repper in the game)

DG Large: 1.5 Hp/GJ
Pith C-Type X-Large: 1.65 Hp/GJ (10% efficiency bonus)

DG X-Large: 1.5 Hp/GJ
Pith C-Type X-Large: 1.65 Hp/GJ (10% efficiency bonus)

Domination Med Booster: 1.5 Hp/GJ
Gistum C-type Med Booster: 3.625 HP/GJ

Domination Large: 1.5 Hp/GJ
Gist C-type Large: 2.38 Hp/GJ

Domination X-Large: 1.5 Hp/GJ
Gist C-type X-Large: 2.93 Hp/GJ (WTF, this is the C-type, not even the X-type)

Now this is just HP/Cap efficiency. There's a different story if you consider the amount repped per second, which matters as well in both PVE and PVP. This is why the Pithum A-types are the best boosters even though they're less efficient than their gistum counter parts, and why Gist L boosters are super efficient but actually run into rep-speed problems in some scenarios. But it clearly explains why the Gist X-L boosters, which have both Insane efficiency and high HP/Sec makes them extremely powerful modules in all applications.

I've seen golem fits that run on 1 pithum A-type booster and 2 invulns. These mods specifically are the holy grail of efficient perma tanking without the traditional sacrifices of rep amount or damage application/projection. The gap between the DG med booster and the pithum C-type is so large that I simply wouldn't use my PVE tengu without one (nearly doubled sustained tank!!!! well worth 300m when I'm going into 8/10s and 10/10s). Take a look at eve-central, the imbalances in the base numbers are reflected inn the market prices.

If you do a forum search of the ships&modules subforum covering the last 5 years, you will find much more detailed charts including both shield and armor mods, including the rep/second numbers. All of this work has been done and discussed before, multiple times. Its well known among members of the community which modules are out of line. But this is the first time in years this aspect of shield/armor balance has had dev attention.


I made the post you quoted right as Fozzie put up his changes (which he made having seen the gap between DG boosters to Pith C-types was small, even though this is nearly the only example of this). I quoted the original changes, which were closer to what we want than the second version.

not bad would like to see armor reps have a 10-15% less cap but what ever

Power creep. Serious power creep.

Seriously, something still needs to be done in regards to cap on the armor reppers.

The addition of AAR's alone did that on the frig scale. AAR+Plate (oversized of course!) can generally not be broken using frig dps, and to think that they considered a 10%/lvl bonus on the Incursus at the start of the pass .. .. hahahahaha.

On the flip-side (DOOM-sayer edition); Neuts will get a massive bump in use as active tanking becomes viable on paper making laser hulls extinct and stapling the dunce cap onto the pitiful NOS forever more. ASB missile spam, ASB auto-cannons, AAR blasters and AAR drones .. don't bother otherwise .. half the freshly rebalanced hulls made obsolete by inability to compete in the tank/dps race.

I love the changes here foz. But are any plans to differentiate between the corp and cent deadspace armor repairers? Would love to have some sort of variety there.

Why not make AARs work slightly differently than they do today. Under normal operation they would rep an amount appropriate for the module's meta level and consume no paste. When overheated they would take the normal amount of heat damage. However, this damage would be mitigated by consuming the paste that is loaded in the module. The amount of paste consumed could then be modified by the pilot's appropriate skills in overheating and also receive bonuses from ship hulls like T3 cruisers.

I see two benefits to this approach. First it would make the module more interactive in that the rep boost can be controlled. Under normal tanking situations you don't have to burn paste (@ 15k a pop JITA) just to rep. You can burn the paste when you need the extra boost. Second, I like how it would tie into other skills and ship bonuses. The capacity of the module and the boost amount would probably need to be tweaked. However this change would make the AAR truly unique when compared to their shield cousins.

I also rather liked how one must assume he finds anything larger then 1v1 to be a blob :P

It's a good idea. It was suggested way back when AAR first came into the game. But CCP dropped it on the floor without comment. It also was suggested (by me, maybe others) in the Reasonable Things thread, but it did not make the cut to the 99 things list.