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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers - round two

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Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1561 - 2013-08-06 15:40:24 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright guys, updated the OP with the Deimos changes.

Removed cap use for MWD bonus
Added Armor Repair amount bonus
Gave back a lot of base hp for armor and structure
Removed small amount of base shield hp
Improved base cap recharge to compensate some for MWD cap use bonus loss

The MWD cap use bonus earned the Deimos 4.5 cap per second, the new Deimos has a base cap recharge that is now 2.1 cap per second stronger than the old Deimos. Obviously this means the recharge is worse when MWDing than before, but the new recharge is useful when not MWDing as well. By adding armor and structure hp along with the new rep bonus, there should be plenty of support for Armor brawlers at all scales as well as the new options for shields afforded by the extra mid and rail buff.

Thanks guys - looking forward to 1.1!
Thanks for these changes, Rise! It allows for both brawling and skirmish playstyles!

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1562 - 2013-08-06 15:42:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright guys, updated the OP with the Deimos changes.

Removed cap use for MWD bonus
Added Armor Repair amount bonus
Gave back a lot of base hp for armor and structure
Removed small amount of base shield hp
Improved base cap recharge to compensate some for MWD cap use bonus loss

The MWD cap use bonus earned the Deimos 4.5 cap per second, the new Deimos has a base cap recharge that is now 2.1 cap per second stronger than the old Deimos. Obviously this means the recharge is worse when MWDing than before, but the new recharge is useful when not MWDing as well. By adding armor and structure hp along with the new rep bonus, there should be plenty of support for Armor brawlers at all scales as well as the new options for shields afforded by the extra mid and rail buff.

Thanks guys - looking forward to 1.1!


Well its mostly fixed it how about the sig radius?
you still need to fix Eagle, Vaga, Sacrilege,

Vaga - needs to be able to fit 425's and buff it HP a little for ASB to work.
Sacrilege maybe nerf its cap recharge or switch it with zealot who actually needs it and swap its high for low.
Eagle- well read my many posts on making it worth using.

Also please fix the resists profiles .. minnies have more resists .. count it up and more omni resists please.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1563 - 2013-08-06 15:45:36 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright guys, updated the OP with the Deimos changes.

Removed cap use for MWD bonus
Added Armor Repair amount bonus
Gave back a lot of base hp for armor and structure
Removed small amount of base shield hp
Improved base cap recharge to compensate some for MWD cap use bonus loss

The MWD cap use bonus earned the Deimos 4.5 cap per second, the new Deimos has a base cap recharge that is now 2.1 cap per second stronger than the old Deimos. Obviously this means the recharge is worse when MWDing than before, but the new recharge is useful when not MWDing as well. By adding armor and structure hp along with the new rep bonus, there should be plenty of support for Armor brawlers at all scales as well as the new options for shields afforded by the extra mid and rail buff.

Thanks guys - looking forward to 1.1!


And the Vagabond continues on the track towards uselessness.
How do the changes that the Vagabond is getting--arguably all benefits to the ship (and certainly improve its disposition compared to TQ)--make the ship any less useful than it is now? The ship is currently very strong as a kiter on TQ, and the shield boost bonus only further enhances ASB setups. What's more, the bonus is essentially free, since you would have received a speed bonus before that has now been baked into the hull. No changes will lessen a strong kiting buffer setup, and the MWD sig reduction role bonus is going to mitigate damage under MWD. If anything, the Vaga becomes more useful.

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Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#1564 - 2013-08-06 15:51:05 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright guys, updated the OP with the Deimos changes.

Removed cap use for MWD bonus
Added Armor Repair amount bonus
Gave back a lot of base hp for armor and structure
Removed small amount of base shield hp
Improved base cap recharge to compensate some for MWD cap use bonus loss

The MWD cap use bonus earned the Deimos 4.5 cap per second, the new Deimos has a base cap recharge that is now 2.1 cap per second stronger than the old Deimos. Obviously this means the recharge is worse when MWDing than before, but the new recharge is useful when not MWDing as well. By adding armor and structure hp along with the new rep bonus, there should be plenty of support for Armor brawlers at all scales as well as the new options for shields afforded by the extra mid and rail buff.

Thanks guys - looking forward to 1.1!


And the Vagabond continues on the track towards uselessness.
How do the changes that the Vagabond is getting--arguably all benefits to the ship (and certainly improve its disposition compared to TQ)--make the ship any less useful than it is now? The ship is currently very strong as a kiter on TQ, and the shield boost bonus only further enhances ASB setups. What's more, the bonus is essentially free, since you would have received a speed bonus before that has now been baked into the hull. No changes will lessen a strong kiting buffer setup, and the MWD sig reduction role bonus is going to mitigate damage under MWD. If anything, the Vaga becomes more useful.


Because all the other HACs are getting better, and the Vaga is essentially getting a useless bonus that doesnt fix the issues with the hull and nothing else.

But this has all been explained in great detail already and I really can't be ****** going through it all again.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1565 - 2013-08-06 15:52:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright guys, updated the OP with the Deimos changes.

Removed cap use for MWD bonus
Added Armor Repair amount bonus
Gave back a lot of base hp for armor and structure
Removed small amount of base shield hp
Improved base cap recharge to compensate some for MWD cap use bonus loss

The MWD cap use bonus earned the Deimos 4.5 cap per second, the new Deimos has a base cap recharge that is now 2.1 cap per second stronger than the old Deimos. Obviously this means the recharge is worse when MWDing than before, but the new recharge is useful when not MWDing as well. By adding armor and structure hp along with the new rep bonus, there should be plenty of support for Armor brawlers at all scales as well as the new options for shields afforded by the extra mid and rail buff.

Thanks guys - looking forward to 1.1!


And the Vagabond continues on the track towards uselessness.
How do the changes that the Vagabond is getting--arguably all benefits to the ship (and certainly improve its disposition compared to TQ)--make the ship any less useful than it is now? The ship is currently very strong as a kiter on TQ, and the shield boost bonus only further enhances ASB setups. What's more, the bonus is essentially free, since you would have received a speed bonus before that has now been baked into the hull. No changes will lessen a strong kiting buffer setup, and the MWD sig reduction role bonus is going to mitigate damage under MWD. If anything, the Vaga becomes more useful.


The only thing the vaga is useful for is killing frigs. Its obvious you've never even flown a vaga.
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#1566 - 2013-08-06 15:56:37 UTC
No more Winmatar?
How about...
Glorious Gallente Spaceship Master Race ;p
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1567 - 2013-08-06 16:00:11 UTC
What the **** is wrong with you people?

The Proposed vagabond is fantastic.. Stop being so damn awful..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1568 - 2013-08-06 16:03:43 UTC
RISE

you may need to look at the fittings on the deimos now to allow for dual rep fits/ rep rigs.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#1569 - 2013-08-06 16:03:54 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright guys, updated the OP with the Deimos changes.

Removed cap use for MWD bonus
Added Armor Repair amount bonus
Gave back a lot of base hp for armor and structure
Removed small amount of base shield hp
Improved base cap recharge to compensate some for MWD cap use bonus loss

The MWD cap use bonus earned the Deimos 4.5 cap per second, the new Deimos has a base cap recharge that is now 2.1 cap per second stronger than the old Deimos. Obviously this means the recharge is worse when MWDing than before, but the new recharge is useful when not MWDing as well. By adding armor and structure hp along with the new rep bonus, there should be plenty of support for Armor brawlers at all scales as well as the new options for shields afforded by the extra mid and rail buff.

Thanks guys - looking forward to 1.1!


my oh my, this could be a very fun ship to fly.


Any word on when these changes may hit duality?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1570 - 2013-08-06 16:04:32 UTC
Rep Deimos <3

.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1571 - 2013-08-06 16:08:07 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:


And the Vagabond continues on the track towards uselessness.

omg noob Danny John-Pete , if you are clueless dont post thx
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#1572 - 2013-08-06 16:08:24 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright guys, updated the OP with the Deimos changes.

Removed cap use for MWD bonus
Added Armor Repair amount bonus
Gave back a lot of base hp for armor and structure
Removed small amount of base shield hp
Improved base cap recharge to compensate some for MWD cap use bonus loss

The MWD cap use bonus earned the Deimos 4.5 cap per second, the new Deimos has a base cap recharge that is now 2.1 cap per second stronger than the old Deimos. Obviously this means the recharge is worse when MWDing than before, but the new recharge is useful when not MWDing as well. By adding armor and structure hp along with the new rep bonus, there should be plenty of support for Armor brawlers at all scales as well as the new options for shields afforded by the extra mid and rail buff.

Thanks guys - looking forward to 1.1!



Ugh, armor rep bonus. Great, another useless bonus on gallente ships.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1573 - 2013-08-06 16:16:10 UTC
RISE
perhaps you could increase the Deimos falloff bonus a little 10% on blasters aren't all that great?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1574 - 2013-08-06 16:22:58 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
What the **** is wrong with you people?

The Proposed vagabond is fantastic.. Stop being so damn awful..


No, its a fantastic brawler, (nealry) no vaga pilot wants the vaga to be a good brawler, we want a good kiter, and as a kiter the vaga still is ****.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1575 - 2013-08-06 16:25:08 UTC
RISE

I still don't see why the Vaga should be soooooooooooooo much faster than everything else?????

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1576 - 2013-08-06 16:25:16 UTC
So. How 'bout that Eagle?

Has it -ever- been good?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1577 - 2013-08-06 16:30:21 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
So. How 'bout that Eagle?

Has it -ever- been good?
I think this is a real concern. I don't understand why the Eagle doesn't get another turret to balance out its damage output with the rest, or at least a 7.5%/10% per level damage bonus.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1578 - 2013-08-06 16:33:26 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
So. How 'bout that Eagle?

Has it -ever- been good?
I think this is a real concern. I don't understand why the Eagle doesn't get another turret to balance out its damage output with the rest, or at least a 7.5%/10% per level damage bonus.


It needs so much more than just a double damage bonus

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#1579 - 2013-08-06 16:36:52 UTC
Just what gallente needs, more active tanked T2 ships with 10% explosive and a lack of lowslots.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1580 - 2013-08-06 16:36:53 UTC
I love that in the last page there has been complaint that Vaga isn't good, Vaga is too good, Eagle isn't good, Eagle is fine, Sacrilege isn't good, Rep bonus Deimos is awesome and Rep Bonuses are bad.

I think we are reaching a good place here =)

@ccp_rise