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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers - round two

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W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1521 - 2013-08-05 13:09:54 UTC
Lucien Cain wrote:
The Renner wrote:
Good changes.

Although I would like to see the Sacrilege lose the utility high and gain a low slot.


I second this. Thank you very much.


Why? It already is good enough, 60k ehp, 600dps, 540 heated maar reps, free damage selection, capstable.

A additional low would just make it too good.

It already is by far the best fleet hac thanks to its cap and incredibly tank, giving it one more low would make it op as hell (way better tank then all other armour hacs, over 670dps before heat, would make armour deimos/ihtar/zealot and co useless).


Hell, with 1 more lowslot the sac would outdps and outrange, outtank and outcap and out midslot the zealot by quite a bit.


The sac does in no way need a additional mid, the utility high already is a very good asset on that ship.
Kick Rocks
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#1522 - 2013-08-05 13:16:56 UTC
So I am listening to Eve Radio and noticed that they talked about the Muninn being an armor tanking ship. However even with the changes I cannot fit 720s and even a medium armor repper without rigs. I imagine this is because you shouldn't take damage at all but it just seems silly to me. Perhaps I am missing something and am just not smart enough. I might be able to do it if I drop some gyros. What kind of DPS are we seeing from other arty/kite fits? Perhaps my DPS expectations are too high?

Yes, I am an alt.  No, I do not care how you feel about that.  
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1523 - 2013-08-05 13:42:23 UTC
Its **** as a brawler, 500 dps and 40k ehp, a moa beats that.

Leaves artys, with 650s it does as much alpha as a thrasher or araileagle and not a lot of dps, so you cant use those (especially not with a 40k tank).

As i said already it cant brawl, it cant kite with acs (no faloff bonus), it cant use 650s + armour tank.

This leaves the muninn with 1 usable weapon system, 720s, it can sue it both with armour and shield, sporting around 550 dps and 3.3k alpha for a shield fit and at top (no point fit) 30k ehp, to 40k ehp for a armour fit with 480dps and 3k alpha.

All with terrible tracking and bad range.


Terrble ship, terrible design.
Kick Rocks
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#1524 - 2013-08-05 15:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kick Rocks
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Its **** as a brawler, 500 dps and 40k ehp, a moa beats that.

Leaves artys, with 650s it does as much alpha as a thrasher or araileagle and not a lot of dps, so you cant use those (especially not with a 40k tank).

As i said already it cant brawl, it cant kite with acs (no faloff bonus), it cant use 650s + armour tank.

This leaves the muninn with 1 usable weapon system, 720s, it can sue it both with armour and shield, sporting around 550 dps and 3.3k alpha for a shield fit and at top (no point fit) 30k ehp, to 40k ehp for a armour fit with 480dps and 3k alpha.

All with terrible tracking and bad range.


Terrble ship, terrible design.


Do these numbers include anything other than the items on the ship like implants or off grid boosts?

Edit: I get the terrible feeling that I am the only one who flys a Muninn.

Yes, I am an alt.  No, I do not care how you feel about that.  
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1525 - 2013-08-05 16:21:54 UTC
no implants/links
Kick Rocks
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#1526 - 2013-08-05 17:16:31 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
no implants/links


I can reach the DPS you are quoting but I cannot get the EHP. Not even close. Can you link what you are fitting? I do PvE mostly (I know no one cares a lick about PvE) I think 40k ehp would be ok given the speed. I just cant reach it

Yes, I am an alt.  No, I do not care how you feel about that.  
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1527 - 2013-08-05 17:17:51 UTC
anyone know where i can get the eft mod folder for these changes... perhaps the command ship ones too?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1528 - 2013-08-05 18:12:17 UTC
Kick Rocks wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
no implants/links


I can reach the DPS you are quoting but I cannot get the EHP. Not even close. Can you link what you are fitting? I do PvE mostly (I know no one cares a lick about PvE) I think 40k ehp would be ok given the speed. I just cant reach it


http://i.imgur.com/tayeYVf.png

For eft files, http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?11380-Odyssey-Changes-Rebalanced-Navy-Cruisers-T1-Cruisers-(and-EFT-files) this guy does a very good job (he has no idea of ship fitting or balance sadl)(
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1529 - 2013-08-05 19:05:58 UTC
so with the new ogb vulture the eagle looks kinda nice for a shield hac

[Eagle, rise shac]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

10MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Leskit
Pure Victory
#1530 - 2013-08-05 20:51:33 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Lucien Cain wrote:
The Renner wrote:
Good changes.

Although I would like to see the Sacrilege lose the utility high and gain a low slot.


I second this. Thank you very much.


Why? It already is good enough, 60k ehp, 600dps, 540 heated maar reps, free damage selection, capstable.

A additional low would just make it too good.

It already is by far the best fleet hac thanks to its cap and incredibly tank, giving it one more low would make it op as hell (way better tank then all other armour hacs, over 670dps before heat, would make armour deimos/ihtar/zealot and co useless).


Hell, with 1 more lowslot the sac would outdps and outrange, outtank and outcap and out midslot the zealot by quite a bit.


The sac does in no way need a additional mid, the utility high already is a very good asset on that ship.

About 50 pages ago i thought it was given 5 lights, not 5 mediums like it has. with the 5 mediums, it's quite a capable ship, I so Agree with W0lf. It'l be getting 65+k ehp, just shy of 600dps using hammerheads, or a530 ish with hobgoblins, all at about 25km. if you meta MWD and 1600mm plate it, you only need a 3% PG implant for a medium neut, or you'll have to sacrifice a rig slot to put a smartbomb on it. I'm kind of expecting to see small fleets of these things going around in attrition fleets. I'm looking forward to seeing my favorite hull (graphically) flying around.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1531 - 2013-08-05 21:40:49 UTC
this is the deimos i am going to be using

if you have a snake set and boosting claymore the ship goes 4.5km/s with heat on.

which is kinda stupid fast and its turret dps ranges from 517 (34km) with jav to 296 (84km) with spike

43k ehp too.

[Deimos, kiting]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

10MN Microwarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

200mm Railgun II, Javelin M
200mm Railgun II, Javelin M
200mm Railgun II, Javelin M
200mm Railgun II, Javelin M
200mm Railgun II, Javelin M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Hammerhead II x5

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1532 - 2013-08-05 21:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
or this as a ahac version

[Deimos, New Setup 1]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

10MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

200mm Railgun II, Javelin M
200mm Railgun II, Javelin M
200mm Railgun II, Javelin M
200mm Railgun II, Javelin M
200mm Railgun II, Javelin M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I


Hammerhead II x5

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1533 - 2013-08-05 23:28:12 UTC
So I don't know if this has already been said, but isn't the Ishtar really stepping on the Navy Vexor here? What is there that really differentiates it at this point? Wasn't the whole point of all this for t2 to be specialized?
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1534 - 2013-08-05 23:48:44 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
so with the new ogb vulture the eagle looks kinda nice for a shield hac

[Eagle, rise shac]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

10MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I



and how dose this S-HAC eagle stack up to your A-HAC Diemos? EHP, DPS, range?
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#1535 - 2013-08-06 07:11:54 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
so with the new ogb vulture the eagle looks kinda nice for a shield hac

[Eagle, rise shac]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

10MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Guristas Antimatter Charge M

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I



You would probably better running an MWD fit like the one I linked, slightly less EHP but much more skirmishing ability.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1536 - 2013-08-06 11:34:32 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
the sac still sucks, it either dosnt have enough tank or not enough dps.

move the utility high to an extra low.

love this ship, but you are not fixing it enough to make it worth flying


Exactly it badly needs 6th low slot. It doesn’t need 4th med slot.
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#1537 - 2013-08-06 11:42:05 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
the sac still sucks, it either dosnt have enough tank or not enough dps.

move the utility high to an extra low.

love this ship, but you are not fixing it enough to make it worth flying


Exactly it badly needs 6th low slot. It doesn’t need 4th med slot.


How derp can you be.

You absolutely need 4 mids on the Sac.

Prop Mod
Scram
Web
Injector

The Sac is fine as is, utility high is handy and the tank and gank balance is really fantastic.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1538 - 2013-08-06 11:51:55 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
the sac still sucks, it either dosnt have enough tank or not enough dps.

move the utility high to an extra low.

love this ship, but you are not fixing it enough to make it worth flying


Exactly it badly needs 6th low slot. It doesn’t need 4th med slot.


How derp can you be.

You absolutely need 4 mids on the Sac.

Prop Mod
Scram
Web
Injector

The Sac is fine as is, utility high is handy and the tank and gank balance is really fantastic.


It's is a missile ship why the hell it would need a cap injector? Let me tell u this: I fly in WH mostly in tech 3 ships and kill mostly tech 3 ships. In theory legion and proteus are comparable. Yet the proteus is much more successful in wh fights. Why? Because of the slot layout. It can have 6/3/7, while a legion can only have 6/4/6. It means more armour or/and more tank. Sacrilege is an armour, dps ship. It needs armour (low), dps (low). It doesn’t need utility hi (I have specialized ships for that) nor does it need the medium slot.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1539 - 2013-08-06 12:08:47 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
It's is a missile ship why the hell it would need a cap injector? Let me tell u this: I fly in WH mostly in tech 3 ships and kill mostly tech 3 ships. In theory legion and proteus are comparable. Yet the proteus is much more successful in wh fights. Why? Because of the slot layout. It can have 6/3/7, while a legion can only have 6/4/6. It means more armour or/and more tank. Sacrilege is an armour, dps ship. It needs armour (low), dps (low). It doesn’t need utility hi (I have specialized ships for that) nor does it need the medium slot.


Actually, it's because WH fights have a tendency to be fought at very close ranges, namely within 5km of a WH so you can GTFO whenever you want, warping to zero on a ratter, etc. That makes blasters exceptional and means the long range of pulse lasers isn't worth much. Also, Proteus cloaky subsystem is actually good, unlike Legion.
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#1540 - 2013-08-06 12:14:38 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
the sac still sucks, it either dosnt have enough tank or not enough dps.

move the utility high to an extra low.

love this ship, but you are not fixing it enough to make it worth flying


Exactly it badly needs 6th low slot. It doesn’t need 4th med slot.


How derp can you be.

You absolutely need 4 mids on the Sac.

Prop Mod
Scram
Web
Injector

The Sac is fine as is, utility high is handy and the tank and gank balance is really fantastic.


It's is a missile ship why the hell it would need a cap injector? Let me tell u this: I fly in WH mostly in tech 3 ships and kill mostly tech 3 ships. In theory legion and proteus are comparable. Yet the proteus is much more successful in wh fights. Why? Because of the slot layout. It can have 6/3/7, while a legion can only have 6/4/6. It means more armour or/and more tank. Sacrilege is an armour, dps ship. It needs armour (low), dps (low). It doesn’t need utility hi (I have specialized ships for that) nor does it need the medium slot.


ITT people not realising mid slots are god in PVP.