Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Maybe repeating myself helps ... .

Imo what a vagabond should end up with is 2.8km/s, 7 sec agility, 486dps with barrage (current number but with a burst rig) maybe 20-50more dps, a 38km faloff range with emp/fusion/plasma, and a 55km range with barrage and about 6% more grid.


This changes nothing of it as a brawler, its dps stays more or less the same, i wouldnt expect any armour fits and if they come up, great. Just to emphasize this, this wouldnt change a thing once you caught the vaga.

For kiting, well, this proposed vaga now would have about 250 turret dps at 40km with barrage, 160ish with emp/fusion, so it wouldnt intrude on zealot terretory, (strong armour tank + 406 turret dps at 40km with dual heat sinks + scorch), nor on eagle (500dps at 50+ and an enourmous tank) nor on cerb (again, big tank and 450dps with rlmls at 70km, or 650dps with hams to 45km) so in pure dps at range it wouldnt intrude on any other hac terretory. And at 20km a blaster shield deimos would still rip it a new one.

It also will not make it op in 1v1s, a bad pilot can easily be sligshotted by a better pilot (espcially a 7.8 agility pilot) and up close it still is a t1 cruiser with higher dps, easy prey for any comeptent hac (ishtar reps 1k dps with a rep + maar setup with heat, and still over 500 without paste, combined with 600dps and a heated speed of 2.3km/s, tahts before any implants or links).

Now how to achieve this, either tweak the faloff bonus and keep the shield repping bonus, or remove the shield repping one for a second falloff bonus.

Now how to get the higher speed? Quite a few ways to do that atm, that basicely is just a od II in the lows, so utility high -> lowslot would do it, or give it more base speed. You also just could give it the fitting for 425s + dual LSE + mwd (a deimos has the fitting to do that with its long range version, as does the cerb/eagle and so on) without having to use rig slots, so that they can be used for speed mods you also achieve that.


So if you want to make the vagabond a viable kiter, give it a second falloff bonus, increase itspower grid by a few % and you are done. Now you could test if for fine tuning a little bit more dps would be good.

Good changes.

Although I would like to see the Sacrilege lose the utility high and gain a low slot.

When the main weapon system the race you fly is blasters with secondary rails and drones you can expect that race engineers to be smart enough to give their ships the tools and abilities to achieve their job, it turns out they're not that smart and actually not only don't seem able to detect the specific ships tools needs but on top rely on AI and other races tanking mods to be effective enough.

Gallente got a lot better for sure.

Really? We kite with the Talos. We kite with the Myrmidon, although it is capable of both. We kite with the Ishkur. We snipe with the Domi, Mega, or Hype. I mean, if I go through all Gallente ships, very few are dedicated brawlers. Most are actually pretty diverse ships that can be fit to do either. The only "dedicated" brawlers I can think of are the Thorax, Deimos, and Brutix. If you haven't figured out how to do something other than brawl with the other Gallente ships, I think you should probably re-examine them.

If anything, Gallente ships suffer from a lack of specialization across the board. They have pretty even slot layouts with a preference for lows over mids. A large number of them can shield or armor tank due to the balance of slots. It's not really accurate to say we have too many brawling boats. Other than maybe the Astarte, there aren't any other dedicated tech 2 brawlers if you push the Deimos toward kiting.

It's not a question of how many. It's a question of having a brawler that can actually *catch* things -- unlike the Brutix and its t2 variants. The only ship that really fits that description is the shield Thorax -- the Talos can catch things, but it's a kiter -- but it desperately lacks hit points, a problem going t2 usually solves.

Split bonus that Ishtar got isnt really inline with other ships. Long range drones bonus and short range drone bonus should count as one bonus (not two) just like turret bonus. I mean turret bonuses dont count as two bonuses even though they apply to both, long range and short range turrets.

Speaking of turrets, Istar has no reason to fit hybrid turrets since there is no bonus for them.

So for Ishtar:
- the split drones bonus should count as one bonus.
- some sort of hybrid bonus should be added to make this gallente hull remain "Gallente" (and not some gallente-minmatar hybrid) even hybrid turret cap use bonus works as it might make blasters more tempting than Autocannons. Without a hybrit turret bonus there isnt really anything to think about.

Please tell me more about how a vindicator cant tank and gank without a utility high . . .

or what about the following ships?
The Rokh
The Abaddon
The ABCs
The Zealot

Clearly utility high slots are not necessary.

Imo you think of it in a wrong way, you shouldnt balance about boni, you should design around results and the use stats/boni accordingly so that you may reach those results.

As you said, the split bonus and no bonused guns may make the ishtar seem weak.

But if you look at results, the shield ishtar has 45k ehp, and puts out 1013dps preheat. (with heavy drones that track with 0.4)

http://i.imgur.com/qtKOoP5.png

A active armour ishtar tank over 800dps with heat (over 1k with a maar) while putting out 660 dps, preheat with full tackle.

http://i.imgur.com/s3mscC7.png (edit, is a oldish fit, still havnt changed to for the exra cpu)

Another damage or tanking bonus would make it absurdly op. So while the boni look weak the end result is very very strong.

Utility highs are on most ships only usefull for soloing (medium neut on vaga for example) and play a very little role once you have 2 pilots, the sac however gets a whole lot from its high, a a type medium rep tanks 500dps on another sac making rr hacs viable, a energy transfer can be used to negate neuting and cap stable medium neuts on all fleet ships are a pita for enemy logis.

I second this. Thank you very much.