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[Odyssey 1.1] Local Armor and Shield repair module changes

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Cpt Boomstick
New Eden Corporation 98034252
#81 - 2013-08-01 16:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Boomstick
Given that armor doesn't have an "extra large" repairer, and shield users not only have them but have ways to fit them on medium size ships, this creates a gap in performance of local tank. A single extra large ancillary shield booster out reps a triple rep myrmidon. The fact that players have to put 3x repairers on a ship bonused for repairing should tell you something, there needs to be a 4th tier of armor repairer that isn't capital size, and the grid requirements of the current large armor repairer needs reduced. If both shield and armor repairing ability is increaed at the exact same amount, this doesnt fix the current gap. It maintains the gap exactly.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2013-08-01 16:40:16 UTC
Good point
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#83 - 2013-08-01 16:41:36 UTC
I think the links are still a bit too strong.

Its really hard to balance something like this when there is a ship out there giving such massive bonuses (yes 25% is still a pretty ******* massive bonus)


Basically if you make reps good enough to work without links they are godlike with links. If you make them good with links they suck without. This is a balance nightmare.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#84 - 2013-08-01 16:42:03 UTC
Cpt Boomstick wrote:
Given that armor doesn't have an "extra large" repairer, and shield users not only have them but have ways to fit them on medium size ships, this creates a gap in performance of local tank. A single extra large ancillary shield booster out reps a triple rep myrmidon. The fact that players have to put 3x repairers on a ship bonused for repairing should tell you something, there needs to be a 4th tier of armor repairer that isn't capital size, and the grid requirements of the current large armor repairer needs reduced. If both shield and armor repairing ability is increaed at the exact same amount, this doesnt fix the current gap. It maintains the gap exactly.
Well, you're correct that shield > armor tanking active, but this is due to the XLASBs being fittable on Medium ships as well as the free cap use, combined with the fact that AARs can only be fit in a single slot. Also, don't forget that in addition to the XLASB, shields also have an option for a shield boost amplifier that makes the booster that much more effective.

I wish, given the fact that in order to repair armor more, you just need to add armor repairers, there'd be another option, especially since AARs are limited. I'd love to see something like a "refrigeration unit" (lowslot module) that would allow a much longer time on overheating on armor repairers. It wouldn't compete in the rig slots with nano pumps or nanobot accelerators and it'd allow a cap-free way of getting more armor repaired, albeit under heat.

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Reatu Krentor
Void Spiders
#85 - 2013-08-01 16:42:07 UTC
Fozzie,
While you are tweaking local reps and the ancillary modules, could you also consider changing reload times based on size of the module.? Currently all require 60s no matter what size of module and 60s is a lifetime for a frigate battle.
If going by time to empty the module for AAR's it would be 24s reload time for a small AAR and 48s for a medium AAR to have the same proportion of reload time over runtime with paste.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#86 - 2013-08-01 16:42:53 UTC
No oversize armor repairers on ship.

Lets just avoid that nightmare.

Yaay!!!!
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#87 - 2013-08-01 16:44:44 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Cpt Boomstick wrote:
Given that armor doesn't have an "extra large" repairer, and shield users not only have them but have ways to fit them on medium size ships, this creates a gap in performance of local tank. A single extra large ancillary shield booster out reps a triple rep myrmidon. The fact that players have to put 3x repairers on a ship bonused for repairing should tell you something, there needs to be a 4th tier of armor repairer that isn't capital size, and the grid requirements of the current large armor repairer needs reduced. If both shield and armor repairing ability is increaed at the exact same amount, this doesnt fix the current gap. It maintains the gap exactly.
Well, you're correct that shield > armor tanking active, but this is due to the XLASBs being fittable on Medium ships as well as the free cap use, combined with the fact that AARs can only be fit in a single slot. Also, don't forget that in addition to the XLASB, shields also have an option for a shield boost amplifier that makes the booster that much more effective.

I wish, given the fact that in order to repair armor more, you just need to add armor repairers, there'd be another option, especially since AARs are limited. I'd love to see something like a "refrigeration unit" (lowslot module) that would allow a much longer time on overheating on armor repairers. It wouldn't compete in the rig slots with nano pumps or nanobot accelerators and it'd allow a cap-free way of getting more armor repaired, albeit under heat.



Ships are generally strapped for lowslots as it is.

It would have to be a medium, even then dunno if people would sacrifice a slot just for that.

Yaay!!!!
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-08-01 16:50:07 UTC
One can hope from now on Armor reps are as good as shield ones? -if so then the 15% on armor looks a bit under the weather.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#89 - 2013-08-01 16:52:21 UTC
Time to fit my DG X-Large SB back on my Sleipnir.
aetherguy881
Grouchy Rediculous Ugly Man Pigs
#90 - 2013-08-01 16:53:32 UTC
Thank you for planning on stepping everything up and not just making a nerf for a rebalance!
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#91 - 2013-08-01 17:00:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
CCP Fozzie wrote:
(except for deadspace/officer reps and ASBs)


So instead of actually addressing the imbalance in progression of power for deadspace/officer shield boosters on a more detailed levels you've just decided to not add a blanket buff you're giving to the other shield boosters?

While I agree with the motive, the actions just seem so half assed...

I'm not trying to be rude here, it's just that there have been multiple threads over the years in which the specific imbalances of deadspace/officer shield booster have already been outlined perfectly for you and your balance minions. I find it highly unlikely you will be addressing the nonsensicalness of these values once your proposed changes hit the server, this I find worrisome.
Gnoshia
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#92 - 2013-08-01 17:05:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
XXSketchxx wrote:
Will these changes affect capital reps? I know you don't say they won't, just want to make sure we're on the same page.

Cause this could have an interesting effect on combat triage.


They will affect local capital reps, yes.


Glad I trained for an Archon. Shocked
Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#93 - 2013-08-01 17:15:32 UTC
Cpt Boomstick wrote:
Given that armor doesn't have an "extra large" repairer, and shield users not only have them but have ways to fit them on medium size ships, this creates a gap in performance of local tank. A single extra large ancillary shield booster out reps a triple rep myrmidon. The fact that players have to put 3x repairers on a ship bonused for repairing should tell you something, there needs to be a 4th tier of armor repairer that isn't capital size, and the grid requirements of the current large armor repairer needs reduced. If both shield and armor repairing ability is increaed at the exact same amount, this doesnt fix the current gap. It maintains the gap exactly.

Garviel Tarrant wrote:
I think the links are still a bit too strong.

Its really hard to balance something like this when there is a ship out there giving such massive bonuses (yes 25% is still a pretty ******* massive bonus)


Basically if you make reps good enough to work without links they are godlike with links. If you make them good with links they suck without. This is a balance nightmare.


Oh yeah, these are still good points.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2013-08-01 17:26:15 UTC
Please CCP Fozzie consider reducing the cap usage on medium and large reps, small reps seem to be ok.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
NetheranE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2013-08-01 17:34:25 UTC
If I ever come to Iceland, I'm buying you several hundred rounds at the pub.


Best thought out set of changes yet, this amount carefully balances between the nerfs to gang links, while bringing cheap "solo" pvp back into its ability to compete.

Well done Fozzie.
Sabrina Scatterbrain
United Souls Research And Development
#96 - 2013-08-01 17:35:38 UTC
CCP once again fixing what is not broken. How about ya'll devote all resources to recoding the entire game into something other than single threaded hell?
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#97 - 2013-08-01 17:37:30 UTC
Sabrina Scatterbrain wrote:
CCP once again fixing what is not broken. How about ya'll devote all resources to recoding the entire game into something other than single threaded hell?


You don't want me rewriting the server code.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#98 - 2013-08-01 17:40:18 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sabrina Scatterbrain wrote:
CCP once again fixing what is not broken. How about ya'll devote all resources to recoding the entire game into something other than single threaded hell?


You don't want me rewriting the server code.



You could have a permanent job standing behind Veritas and poking him with a cattleprod whenever he starts looking tired.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Jason Dunham
Andvaranaut Conglomerate
#99 - 2013-08-01 17:46:00 UTC
I think this is a positive change for all areas of the game. It should help newer players in PVE if they choose that path to make money, and buffing local reps would definitely have interesting elements to pvp as well. Nice to see that perhaps buffer and logistics won't be the only way to go. I also appreciate the boost to armor reps, it always seemed weird that armor tanks were so far behind shield tanks.

I'm looking forward to having more flexible ship and fitting choices after this, keep up the good work.
Gustav Mannfred
Summer of Mumuit
Remember Mumuit
#100 - 2013-08-01 17:48:24 UTC
why not boosting the deadspace boosters too?

after the changes, a t2 shieldbooster gives 690 hp, and a pith c-type large booster gives 660. means, a t2 booster is ways better.

you should buff deadspace/officerboosters too.

i'm REALY miss the old stuff. 

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