Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Kiting for example. Mine does 280 dps as point edge, doing 3500 m/s. Maybe you should just stop being bad?

Really? Which ship, and how much more dps do you get out of it compared to the T2 variant?

I don't see much in terms of the 'specialisation' that T2 was supposed to represent in these changes, we seem to have a fairly wide spread of flat improvements over T1.

As others have mentioned, HACs have always had the issue of simply being T1 Cruisers, only superior, whilst other T2 hulls did a better job from the outset of fitting into well-defined roles. I honestly think it may be better to go back to first principles, decide on what role HACs are meant to specialise in, and redesign the ships from the ground up to fit those roles. If need be, push the HACs back to the winter expansion and jump on some low hanging fruit T2 class such as covops or interdictors where the issues and required improvements are much less contentious.

You provide an empty argument to back up your case and then say that the argument is irrelevant because of some other reason you came up with on the fly? Really?

I realy support this. The HACs shouln´t have any utitlity highs and only focus on their attack power.

Ah the Deimos doesnt get fixed......Deimos a 140m isk piece of shi t Thorax; if you dont fix it now it will never get fixed and remain a turd for the next 10 years....why would you ignore it, fix the darn ship!

Just to further illustrate the vaga's PG issues, this doesn't fit:

[NEW Vagabond, LSE LASB PG hardwiring]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150
Warp Disruptor II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x5

Mid-tier guns, class-appropriate tank, no oversized modules, and you're still over on grid without a PG implant.


edit - for comparative purposes, here are some other hac fits with top- or mid-tier weapons and class-appropriate tanks that fit just fine without any fitting mods or implants:

[NEW Deimos, 1600mm gang ions]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Anti-EM Pump I


Hammerhead II x5


[NEW Sacrilege, armor gang]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Anti-EM Pump I


Hammerhead II x5


[NEW Eagle, beagle - dual LSE]
Internal Force Field Array I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 150
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

Lol you are joking right?

Resists without buffer to back them up are worthless. Tell me how you are going to fit any buffer to your vaga with that precious 10 powergrid remaining?


Why don't you post a fit of this vagabond you are referring to because frankly I don't think it exists. :P

This is what is missing.

HACs have a role. They are the pitbulls of Eve. They get into the fight and they stay there. Thier defining charateristic is tenacity.They are hard to kill. They have (now) strong caps. DPS can be mediocre, lower than T1 even; Speed is needed to get into a fight but not out, so MWD sig reduction is a decent bonus for this approach; but the tenacity is absent compared to T1. They have superior resists, but apply it to a hp base that far from outshines their new rebalanced T1 variants (and with some of the resist profile holes leaves them worse off on occasions). Buffing sensor strength is simply an indirect nerf to ecm (which is all fine and dandy but doesn't make these ships any tougher).

So far the cap boost has been great as part of the role, the mwd sig reduction has been good as part of the role, the sensor strength change adds to this aspect but in a very specific way (however these ships are just as vulnerable to all other ewar so this is hardly a defining strength). They are missing hp, either through base hp or better resist profiles, but that's what is absent from this picture for me.

That vaga has 25k EHP with a 605 dps heated burst tank. The only way you're getting 40k EHP out of a vaga with a prop mod and a point is if you're running dual LSEs and dual T2 CDFEs, in which case you don't have any burst tank so I'm not at all sure where you're coming from here unless you're factoring in gang bonuses.