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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers - round two

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M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#661 - 2013-07-30 13:59:39 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Vagabond goes way faster than any other HAC in the game and can perfectly control/mitigate incoming dmg




Vagabond, meet Talos.

Say good bye to Vagabond, say hello to capsule.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#662 - 2013-07-30 14:00:43 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
I dont understand how any of that is relevant.



And you will never will because you're unable to take your blinders off. Playing with words will not solve your real issue with new Vagabond nor will EFT, play with it a bit and ask guys knowing flying them to help you fit it and fly it properly.


removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#663 - 2013-07-30 14:02:18 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:


This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.


The dumbest things I have seen so far is you. Ships should never be balanced on how much they cost ever because no matter how much that cost is we can afford it.

Diesel47 wrote:

If a ship is going to be 150mil and also terrible, then it just a waste. Look at the eagle. It is "content" but if it removed from the game nothing would change.


The vaga will still be the bane of all frigates and one of the best solo small gang cruisers around. Its losing nothing and ganing a somewhat handy new tool and a slight buff to boot.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#664 - 2013-07-30 14:03:10 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Vagabond goes way faster than any other HAC in the game and can perfectly control/mitigate incoming dmg




Vagabond, meet Talos.

Say good bye to Vagabond, say hello to capsule.

I already posted a fit that will buttraep the Talos, but people then answer "The Talos has backup, hurr durr vaga sucks"

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#665 - 2013-07-30 14:04:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Deacon Abox
Meytal wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
the sac still sucks, it either dosnt have enough tank or not enough dps.

move the utility high to an extra low.

love this ship, but you are not fixing it enough to make it worth flying

In a fleet, the Sac right now can get over 60k EHP while sporting two BCUs, which is quite nice. While very thankful for the bonus change from cap to something useful, I was sort of hoping for a bit of a dps increase to avoid being completely out-stripped by the Cerberus; it already comes in second place to the Cerberus, which is getting a dps buff. However, increased range is also nice.

On the other hand, I'm very happy with the Cerberus changes :)

I bet you are. Because that Cerb will outrun and outmaneuver that Sac and have more HAM range. The Sac may be able to fit for more ehp but that only delays the inevitable. Basically - Cerb too agile, Sac too much a cow, Cerb can be nano'd for further speed and mobility advantage, Sac will be plated (or maar lol) and have worse mobility that the Cerb.

Oh the Sac has a 50/50 drone bay to the Cerb's 15/15. So maybe use 5 web valks that won't live very long? But then giving up dps or no ecm drones. Or could go light drones of different varieties, whatever. The drone bays are largely irrelevant. Of course the Cerb will be simply a better ship (than either Amarr HAC tbh). Mobility and range is everything in EVE combat now it seems. And if any of these ships deserve a 15/15 drone bay it is the Eagle and Zealot, not the Cerb.

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#666 - 2013-07-30 14:05:58 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
I dont understand how any of that is relevant.



And you will never will because you're unable to take your blinders off. Playing with words will not solve your real issue with new Vagabond nor will EFT, play with it a bit and ask guys knowing flying them to help you fit it and fly it properly.




Please go and look at how many kills I have with Med-AC ships including the Vaga.

Then go look at how many you do.

I think I might have played with them a little bit.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#667 - 2013-07-30 14:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
vexor 13 slots
navy vexor 14 slots
Ishtar 14 slots

surely it should be 15 for the ishtar and all the other hacs 16 slots, would solve a lot of issues just bumping them all up 1 slot, rather than just nerfing the ishtar

omen 14 slots
navy omen 15 slots
zealot 15 slots

OMG when can i get a pic here
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#668 - 2013-07-30 14:09:03 UTC
Just to stop all of the deimos does 0 dps at 20km, vaga should do bad dps too.


A blaster deimos in a shield fit does over 450dps without heat at 20km, a railone over 700.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#669 - 2013-07-30 14:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
baltec1 wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:


This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.


The dumbest things I have seen so far is you. Ships should never be balanced on how much they cost ever because no matter how much that cost is we can afford it.

Diesel47 wrote:

If a ship is going to be 150mil and also terrible, then it just a waste. Look at the eagle. It is "content" but if it removed from the game nothing would change.


The vaga will still be the bane of all frigates and one of the best solo small gang cruisers around. Its losing nothing and ganing a somewhat handy new tool and a slight buff to boot.


Resorting to insults when somebody disagrees with what you say. How childish. Stop raging.

You are so wrong its actually quite funny, do you even play this game called eve online?
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#670 - 2013-07-30 14:11:58 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
I dont understand how any of that is relevant.



And you will never will because you're unable to take your blinders off. Playing with words will not solve your real issue with new Vagabond nor will EFT, play with it a bit and ask guys knowing flying them to help you fit it and fly it properly.




Please go and look at how many kills I have with Med-AC ships including the Vaga.

Then go look at how many you do.

I think I might have played with them a little bit.

I'll just leave this here

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#671 - 2013-07-30 14:12:57 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Then go look at how many you do.



You have no idea what an Angle fleet is or what it does Blink

So lets stay entitled to our positions, yours thinking new Vaga is crap and mine saying new Vaga is fine. Hint: run for you life at the sight of these.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#672 - 2013-07-30 14:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
I think when the Cynabal is nerfed, the Vagabond will again be an OK ship.

However, the Muninn will remain utter crap, until CCP redesign it as a brawler instead of a sniper (a role that the Tornado outclasses the Muninn in every way.)

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#673 - 2013-07-30 14:15:59 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
I think when the Cynabal is nerfed, the Vagabond will again be an OK ship.

However, the Muninn will remain utter crap, until CCP redesign it as a brawler instead of a sniper (a role that the Tornado outclasses the Muninn in every way.)

Tracking and gun signature bro. HUGE difference between the two.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Boss McNab
Tactical Chaos Corp
#674 - 2013-07-30 14:16:11 UTC
CCP RISE have you consider those changes to the sacrilige that had about 4 pages of people agreeing on?

did you see that....
Saint Hecate
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#675 - 2013-07-30 14:16:50 UTC
I personally wish the Ishtars bonuses were reversed. Have the Sentry tracking and optimal be the Gallente cruiser skill relation and have the heavy drone bonuses be the HAC skill relation. Its mostly self serving because i dont want to train HAC 5 at the moment and I love sentries :P

Overall the ships look really fun and this is a great patch for a Cruiser fanatic like myself. Its a good thing to have all 4 cruisers to 5!

Keep the reworks rollin!

Saint
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#676 - 2013-07-30 14:19:42 UTC
I have no idea what's going on in this thread at this point.

Essentially, changes look pretty promising, I'm unconvinced the Muninn has much use and the Vaga changes improves none of the actual problems of the Hull (DPS/Projection) so that's about it really.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#677 - 2013-07-30 14:22:46 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
I think when the Cynabal is nerfed, the Vagabond will again be an OK ship.

However, the Muninn will remain utter crap, until CCP redesign it as a brawler instead of a sniper (a role that the Tornado outclasses the Muninn in every way.)

Tracking and gun signature bro. HUGE difference between the two.



That explains why Muninns are everywhere and Tornados are hardly ever used--oh wait...

Guns sig plays a marginal role in damage application compared to missiles, and it hardly makes the Muninn better.
Tracking? At 100km anything can be tracked by 1400s, and since the Tornado has about double the range the tracking arguement is irrelevant, the Tornado can fight from further back and therefore track better and avoid damage better.


Muninn still sucks and Tornado still outclasses it. Plus the Tornado costs less and has insurance payouts.

***There is a reason nullsec alliances used the Tornado over the Muninn.***

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#678 - 2013-07-30 14:24:58 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi all

Wanted to post and let you know I haven't disappeared or something, just had to go home and sleep and stuff.

I've been reading all of this and will continue to do so. I would not expect any changes at the scale of this last iteration, maybe some small tweaks after a few more days of feedback at the most.

We are a little concerned that some overpowered configurations might be popular following these changes, but I know many of you are still worried they aren't powerful enough. I'll keep reading for now and if we decide to make any changes you will be the first to know.

Thanks!


Please rise the diemos wants to be a mini mega.... Make it so.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#679 - 2013-07-30 14:25:27 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
However, the Muninn will remain utter crap, until CCP redesign it as a brawler instead of a sniper (a role that the Tornado outclasses the Muninn in every way.)



And the main issue here is Tornado class it self not Munnin after changes despite my own personal thought on this ship requiring a bit more of attention.

Munnin can already brawl fit and deliver stupid amounts of dps but it's slow, arty fit it will be like all other HACs:

Rails Deimos vs Rails Talos? no match, Talos wins

Beam Zealot vs Beam/Tack Oracle? no match Oracle wins unless the oracle pilot is really awful at fittings

Rails Eagle vs Rails Naga? no match Naga wins, hell I'm sure naga can hit the Eagle with blasters at ranges the Eagle has to use Rails

The main issue now is more about attack BC's performing with Battleship dps cruiser speed/agility and and small signature but have paper tanks, so it's not about pop at the gate and start shooting primaries hitting you from far distances you can hit but force them to fight you at ranges YOU can get the crap out of them.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#680 - 2013-07-30 14:26:41 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:

Resorting to insults when somebody disagrees with what you say.



If you don't want insulting then don't insult people.

Diesel47 wrote:

You are so wrong its actually quite funny, do you even play this game called eve online?


It seems I play more than you. It also seems you arnt grasping what is going on here.

CCP are not going to be producing an overpowered monstrosity. Its going to be balanced with t1, the cynable will getting a nerf and t3s are rather heavy one. When all is said an done its going to be a ship with uses.