Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So basically you took what should have been one bonus and spread it across two bonus slots. This really feels like a dual weapon bonus of some ship hulls that everyone mostly agreed is a terrible idea. This is not a good idea.

Well they still don't really have a role, but these changes look a lot better and maybe will buff them enough that it won't matter. I certainly look forward to trying them all. Now go do command ships.

Wish cerb would lose that kinetic damage bonus. If will prevent it from ever being a fleet ship. Enemy spies see you are using cerbs? Tank for kinetic and GG.


Also 15 m3 drone bay? Comon now, Either remove this and buff the missile a little bit more or make it 25 m3.

Waiting for HAC changes 3.0 :)

2 bonuses twice tbh so its hard to compare. I mean a lot of turret users would just love optimal and tracking to count as one bonus :). Plus you cant swap your launchers for turrets mid fight, if you could the dual bonus would not be so bad in any case (think old phoon with 8 turrets, 8 launchers and the ability to swap between autos and cruise as need arose). As it is they have folded the old drone bonus into the hull so from that perspective ishtar is doing quite well.

Thats like saying a hybrid gun bonus is really two bonuses because it applies to rails and blasters.. But i know what you're saying. also even with that bonus Ogres still get kited by BC's....


Ok now to the ships

Sacrilige

1. I liked the sac being able to run a Medium repper and staying cap stable.. I'm not sure if it still can.. If it can't i'm going to be sad.

2. I HATE HATE HATE that velocity bonus. Thats basically giving in to the people who want to be able to use the sac for the exact same thing as the damn zealot and thats silly aHac gangs. Should have given it a less blob friendly bonus like a application bonus to keep it different from the zealot.

Zealot
I would go into my hate of counter productive bonuses Rof/capRe but the zealot is largely fine..


Cerberus

While my main complaint about the last version of the cerb was it being slow as balls. Which you seem to have addressed some.

The fact remains that flight time is a really **** bonus... Should give it an application bonus or just another velocity bonus instead.

Eagle

The eagle still has one problem.. The fact that it has a great tank while opperating at a range where almost no other ships that could be with it in a fleet will have a great tank. So it will be chilling with 60k ehp with lol sniper zealots with 10k ehp. Not really a critizizm of the ship it self i just don't see a great use for it. Also you know, it gets outperformed by tier 3's in almost every way.

Deimos

"We did look closely at the MWD cap use bonus and in the end decided that there wasn't any replacement compelling enough to warrant a change."

Rep bonus? Its the only traditional tanking bonus that isn't represented in the Hac's... i really hate how i feel like this Demios was balanced around the idea of using a shield tank........

Ishtar

Seems that my complaining about the bay bonus worked \o/

I think splitting up sentry drones and heavy drones into two different bonuses is extremelly silly.. Don't really see the point of that.

Vagabond

Why does the vagabond get five bonuses?

Thats basically what you have done with the speed thing.. The sac doesn't get all the awesome cap it used to have, why does the vagabond get to be 35% faster than any other HAC? Don't think its weak enough to warrant that....

Other then that i don't really care about it, i just think thats really stupid.

Munin

Pretty sure i will continue to not use the munin..

We are already looking at that, possible shield Kite, which makes me sad cause I shields and kiting, but while its better I still feel the EVI is as good in small gang Armor fleets.

My failings? Have I run for CSM, or do I plan too? No. What I said was all about you. My alleged "failings" are irrelevant. Yours, unfortunately, are very relevant. No projection, just disgusted resignation to how you are viewing your role.

I'm sure all your former Drake blob corpies are salivating at the Cerb. As are you. It will be next, as you say along with other Caldari ships. This game is still too tilted in favor of ranged shield tanked blob sniping. Or in smaller scale fights shield tanked kiting setups. And of course with so many of your people invested in Caldari and missile skills already the new Cerb will be very attractive. The Mega will prove more expensive, less agile, more cap dependent, more subject to ewar, bombing, etc.

And oh look, a begrudging admission that the Cerb is possibly OP from CCP Rise now. But will anything be done about it. Very probably not. There will be no reduction in agility. The Sac will be an absolute brick in comparison. The unneeded drone bay will not be removed and given to the Eagle and Zealot. New Cerb blobs to replace the old Drake blobs of old, and Tengu blobs since those will eventually get trimmed.

But hey, that is the CSM. The game revolving around coalition monoculture ship blob tactics. And you are of course a part of that. I only hope the small gang FW pocket of relative freedom from that **** stays unharmed by your focus. In this environment the kiting Cerb will get lots of use, similar to the Hookbill. And counters (usually involving a second ship) will have to be developed. But it will be sad to see Cerbs being used the same ways and in the same numbers as Drakes used to be out there in Null.

Rise, any comment on the Ishtar's Heavy drone bonus and its effect on the Navy Vexor? 7.5%/lvl outclasses Navy Vexor's 5%/level, and it largely seems like the Ishtar, with its stronger sensor str, faster & better tracking drones, larger bay, T2 resists, etc. make it a clear winner.

I don't think I really mind the MWD penalty, as I completely trust you when you say that it's more valuable than people might think. The problem I see is specifically with the Zealot, and this problem may affect the others.

It's powergrid is just too small to fit into the MWD style of play that you're almost enforcing with the role bonus. A downgrade of guns and removal of a 1600mm plate means it would probably fit with an 800mm or so, but it feels like the zealot should be using those upper tier (heavy pulse) of guns. And also a 1600mm plate, in order to maintain its durability.

17k EHP with the 800mmplate (and only the plate) is not enough to justify the near 175m pricetag that these sell for, when you can get 2k more than that with a harbinger without any fitting whatsoever.

This is my main problem with HACs right now, while they have a good sig, and high resists, they just don't manage to get enough EHP in comparison to something that's 1/5th of the price.

I think actually they're supposed to be different somehow.