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increase agility and warp speed of freighters

Author
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#1 - 2013-07-19 17:32:16 UTC
comparing a charon to an archon you find that the archon has more mass but is more agile, and warps faster than the charon. Further since the archon has mod slots you could choose to alter this imbalance even further (i realize that would be a bad idea, but im just saying).

I would like to see the align time and warp speed put at least on par with an unmodified archon and realistically the charon should have better mechanics in both areas since movement is one of the charons two chief functions as a ship.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#2 - 2013-07-19 19:17:10 UTC
I can support this. As long as all the junk you put inside the freighter's cargo bay directly contributes to the overall mass and lack of agility of the ship.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#3 - 2013-07-19 19:34:18 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
I can support this. As long as all the junk you put inside the freighter's cargo bay directly contributes to the overall mass and lack of agility of the ship.


Why, the Archon is full of fighters and is full all the time, a freighter is empty from personal experience about 25% of the time, so by your 'logic' the Archon should always be slower, while my charon should be zipping along 25% of the time.

i'll give your troll a 3/10 though not a total waste.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-07-19 23:13:52 UTC
Manually pilot it, and get a friend with a webbing ship.

And stop comparing carriers to freighters.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#5 - 2013-07-19 23:31:25 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Manually pilot it, and get a friend with a webbing ship.

And stop comparing carriers to freighters.


I used the comparison as a size issue, which i believe is a valid point.

Lets look at the archon again, it has two primary roles, offense and defense, it does them both well.

Now let's look at the freighter it also has two primary roles carrying a lot of stuff which it does well and traveling distances through space frequently which it does not do well because it has been artificially penalized, probably for immersion reasons.

If immersion is going to take precedence over function, then lets add a really cool looking launch graphic to the Archon but only let it use T1 drones.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#6 - 2013-07-20 00:00:39 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Manually pilot it, and get a friend with a webbing ship.

And stop comparing carriers to freighters.


this

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-07-20 00:12:52 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Manually pilot it, and get a friend with a webbing ship.

And stop comparing carriers to freighters.


I used the comparison as a size issue, which i believe is a valid point.

Lets look at the archon again, it has two primary roles, offense and defense, it does them both well.

Now let's look at the freighter it also has two primary roles carrying a lot of stuff which it does well and traveling distances through space frequently which it does not do well because it has been artificially penalized, probably for immersion reasons.

If immersion is going to take precedence over function, then lets add a really cool looking launch graphic to the Archon but only let it use T1 drones.

Freighters are slow because moving gigantic quantities of stuff across the universe is supposed to be somewhat of a big deal.

Additionaly it punishes lazy people who autopilot/cba to find a webbing buddy.
Low effort=low reward.
Ted Cisse
Lanisters
#8 - 2013-07-20 00:50:50 UTC
20 jumps takes about an hour when you manually jump when you fly a freighter with full skills.

Really how unproductive should my life become for me to waste 1 hour of my life just for my ship to dock on the desired destination.

I`m supporting OP on this.

I`m amazed by the stupidity of some comments. OP has a valid point... haulers should not be penalized for no reasons... supplying the eve universe is a fundamental part of the game.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-07-20 01:00:25 UTC
Ted Cisse wrote:
20 jumps takes about an hour when you manually jump when you fly a freighter with full skills.

Really how unproductive should my life become for me to waste 1 hour of my life just for my ship to dock on the desired destination.
Webbing buddy. Find one.

And again, moving large quantities of stuff should be a pain.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-07-20 01:08:25 UTC
Ted Cisse wrote:
20 jumps takes about an hour when you manually jump when you fly a freighter with full skills.

Really how unproductive should my life become for me to waste 1 hour of my life just for my ship to dock on the desired destination.

I`m supporting OP on this.

I`m amazed by the stupidity of some comments. OP has a valid point... haulers should not be penalized for no reasons... supplying the eve universe is a fundamental part of the game.


Hauling prices are already obscenely low. Freighters don't need to be any safer.
Ted Cisse
Lanisters
#11 - 2013-07-20 01:13:02 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Ted Cisse wrote:
20 jumps takes about an hour when you manually jump when you fly a freighter with full skills.

Really how unproductive should my life become for me to waste 1 hour of my life just for my ship to dock on the desired destination.
Webbing buddy. Find one.

And again, moving large quantities of stuff should be a pain.


Why though?? it's already a pain because when the value is too large you can get ganged.

it's not even worth it to manually fly a freighter, the agility and wrap speed are way too slow.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2013-07-20 02:21:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Ted Cisse wrote:
I`m amazed by the stupidity of some comments. OP has a valid point... haulers should not be penalized for no reasons... supplying the eve universe is a fundamental part of the game.

Okay... here are some decent arguments...

Making freighters faster allows...

- for more goods to flow back and forth...
--- homogenizing prices between different regions (bad for traders in general as they would only gain profits through razor thin margins (more so than now)),
--- making logistics easier (also bad as a full freighter can move entire packaged fleets),
--- encourages corps/alliances to not be self-sufficient in certain corners of the map... instead shopping at hubs on the weekend and shipping goods out.

Now that I think about it... carriers should probably have their hauling abilities nerfed a bit because they can pretty much do all of the above too... except not on the same scale and they are limited to low-sec.


Another argument is...

the comparison between a carrier and a freighter is one between a combat and non-combat ship. I know real life comparisons are bad (as the following comparison might be)... but you're comparing a tank to a truck/lorry. The tank is MUCH heavier but is also relatively more agile than the truck/lorry (because it's designed to be).
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#13 - 2013-07-20 07:42:27 UTC
Ive read some replies and rather than quote them each i'll take a generalist approach to responding:

1. Immersion: Haulers should be slow.

a. Response: ships need to do their intended job or jobs effectively. How about we give the Archon a cool new drone launching graphic for better immersion but to counter such a cool boost to immersion, we make it so that the Archon can only launch T2 drones (in short, when choosing between immersion and a core function of a ship, the core function should win).

2. Find a webbing buddy:

a. Cutting your hauling profits between two people is not cost effective.
b. Would you like to be forever attached to a support vessel for everything you do to be on par with where you should be without them, i didn't think so.

3. Will affect market values of goods / services:

a. Yes, and so have things like ship re-balancing, dropping the price of exploration skill books from hundreds of thousands each to tens of thousands, and I'm sure you 10 yr vets cold make pages of things that have affected the market place and yet the marketplace always finds a new balance and people adjust to the new realities.

4. This has not been brought up but there is always someone that responds this way so I'll get it out of the way here too, "It has always been that way it is fine as is".

a. by this logic we should never have invented the wheel because walking worked for us for millions of years.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Whitehound
#14 - 2013-07-20 10:28:15 UTC
The argument is flawed for a couple of reasons.

Oil tankers travel with 12-13 knots while aircraft carriers do up to 35 knots. That is because high speeds require much larger amounts of fuels and makes transportation at high speeds uneconomical. Therefore is it quite reasonable for freighters to travel slowly and for military vessels to be faster.

Further, an increase of speed of freighters would lead to more greed among players, because it only leads to faster trading and higher turn-overs, as well as fewer freighters, and not do anything for the core of the game, which is on player interactions and not to create greedy players.

Higher freighter speeds will also lead to a higher concentration of players within market hubs, because the increased speeds will reflect in the average distance a freighter pilot is willing to travel and thereby increases the influence radius of the market hubs. This, too, is not in the interest of most players.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Balthazar Lestrane
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#15 - 2013-07-20 10:48:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthazar Lestrane
A freighter's slow align time and warp speed have very little to do with immersion. EVE is about proficiency and drawbacks. Freighters excel as moving large quantities of goods. Their drawback is they are slow. I see little reason to change this. -1

Comparing non-combat v. combat ships is a silly thing as well, previous posters have pointed out the fallacy of this.
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#16 - 2013-07-20 11:05:15 UTC
Ted Cisse wrote:
20 jumps takes about an hour when you manually jump when you fly a freighter with full skills.

Really how unproductive should my life become for me to waste 1 hour of my life just for my ship to dock on the desired destination.

I`m supporting OP on this.

I`m amazed by the stupidity of some comments. OP has a valid point... haulers should not be penalized for no reasons... supplying the eve universe is a fundamental part of the game.


How long does it take to haul the same amount of stuff with an Industrial?
You're flying a Huge Container with some engines. Deal with being slow. Your Cargohold is gigantic to make up for it.

My Condor costs less than that module!

Whitehound
#17 - 2013-07-20 11:24:30 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
a. by this logic we should never have invented the wheel because walking worked for us for millions of years.

Actually, it did not. Millions of years ago were there not many humans.

Now we exist in the billions, but this was only possible because of inventions like the wheel.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

BadSeamus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-07-20 11:38:27 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Ive read some replies and rather than quote them each i'll take a generalist approach to responding:

1. Immersion: Haulers should be slow.

a. Response: ships need to do their intended job or jobs effectively. How about we give the Archon a cool new drone launching graphic for better immersion but to counter such a cool boost to immersion, we make it so that the Archon can only launch T2 drones (in short, when choosing between immersion and a core function of a ship, the core function should win).

2. Find a webbing buddy:

a. Cutting your hauling profits between two people is not cost effective.
b. Would you like to be forever attached to a support vessel for everything you do to be on par with where you should be without them, i didn't think so.

3. Will affect market values of goods / services:

a. Yes, and so have things like ship re-balancing, dropping the price of exploration skill books from hundreds of thousands each to tens of thousands, and I'm sure you 10 yr vets cold make pages of things that have affected the market place and yet the marketplace always finds a new balance and people adjust to the new realities.

4. This has not been brought up but there is always someone that responds this way so I'll get it out of the way here too, "It has always been that way it is fine as is".

a. by this logic we should never have invented the wheel because walking worked for us for millions of years.



You are terrible at arguing/debating. I don't even want to respond because I don't think you get 'game design'. I imagine your posts tend to prove Godwins Law faster than most. Please stop posting.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-07-20 11:44:31 UTC
I am both surprised and appalled at all of you, not a single person up till this point has made any reference to the nomad implant set.

Get a set of Nomad implants, there is your increased agility. As far as warp speed goes, deal with it.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Whitehound
#20 - 2013-07-20 12:20:02 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I am both surprised and appalled at all of you, not a single person up till this point has made any reference to the nomad implant set.

Get a set of Nomad implants, there is your increased agility. As far as warp speed goes, deal with it.

So what stopped you from mentioning the warp speed implants? Too appalled perhaps? Lol

Anyway, implants can be used for all ships and will not counter the OP's arguments.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

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