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increase agility and warp speed of freighters
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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-07-20 12:23:56 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I am both surprised and appalled at all of you, not a single person up till this point has made any reference to the nomad implant set.

Get a set of Nomad implants, there is your increased agility. As far as warp speed goes, deal with it.

So what stopped you from mentioning the warp speed implants? Too appalled perhaps? Lol

Anyway, implants can be used for all ships and will not counter the OP's arguments.

Yes lolLol

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#22 - 2013-07-20 14:47:30 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
a. by this logic we should never have invented the wheel because walking worked for us for millions of years.

Actually, it did not. Millions of years ago were there not many humans.

Now we exist in the billions, but this was only possible because of inventions like the wheel.


You missed the point of my point by 100%.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#23 - 2013-07-20 14:50:20 UTC
I would love to see if the freighter is empty its align faster then its full, scaleable to the percent of the current load.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#24 - 2013-07-20 14:51:57 UTC
BadSeamus wrote:



You are terrible at arguing/debating. I don't even want to respond because I don't think you get 'game design'. I imagine your posts tend to prove Godwins Law faster than most. Please stop posting.


blah, blah, blah my name is BadSeamus and I have nothing to add but like seeing my face posted in forums.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#25 - 2013-07-20 15:00:14 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
I would love to see if the freighter is empty its align faster then its full, scaleable to the percent of the current load.


This will never happen because it would require a complete re-working of game mechanics that CCP hates going back and changing.

It would also require more processing time on the servers, and CCPs infrastructure would explode.

Lastly, to be fair you would have to have every ship alter its movement mechanics based on current load, so an empty Archon would have different movement abilities as opposed to a full one and things get ugly fast.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#26 - 2013-07-20 15:17:39 UTC
After considering the immersion argument that haulers should feel slow and cumbersome I have come up with a new suggestion that both preserves the 'hauler feel' of freighters but still gives them the travel speed of vessels that have the same approximate mass.

1. Leave the agility of the freighters the same but....

2. increase their warp speed substantially, in fact to the point where they are compensated for their overly cumbersome agility.

Now the freighter feels slow and cumbersome: 1) it aligns slowly, 2) it turns slowly, 3) it moves at sub-warp speed slowly. but when it goes to do its job of hauling large quantities of stuff around space it is not artificially being punished for immersion reasons.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-07-20 15:40:25 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
After considering the immersion argument that haulers should feel slow and cumbersome I have come up with a new suggestion that both preserves the 'hauler feel' of freighters but still gives them the travel speed of vessels that have the same approximate mass.

1. Leave the agility of the freighters the same but....

2. increase their warp speed substantially, in fact to the point where they are compensated for their overly cumbersome agility.

Now the freighter feels slow and cumbersome: 1) it aligns slowly, 2) it turns slowly, 3) it moves at sub-warp speed slowly. but when it goes to do its job of hauling large quantities of stuff around space it is not artificially being punished for immersion reasons.

I just want to point out that the only person bringing up "immersion" is you.

The rest of us are citing gameplay reasons.
Whitehound
#28 - 2013-07-20 17:20:42 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
a. by this logic we should never have invented the wheel because walking worked for us for millions of years.

Actually, it did not. Millions of years ago were there not many humans.

Now we exist in the billions, but this was only possible because of inventions like the wheel.


You missed the point of my point by 100%.

I am only trying to educate you on human history.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Akiko Sciuto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-07-20 17:20:45 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
I can support this. As long as all the junk you put inside the freighter's cargo bay directly contributes to the overall mass and lack of agility of the ship.

Lephia DeGrande wrote:
I would love to see if the freighter is empty its align faster then its full, scaleable to the percent of the current load.


Yeah I completely agree and would fully support this.

Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
.......

Lastly, to be fair you would have to have every ship alter its movement mechanics based on current load, so an empty Archon would have different movement abilities as opposed to a full one and things get ugly fast.


Not really, loads of ships have unique role bonuses, make this a role bonus of freighters.....
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-07-20 17:23:17 UTC
Akiko Sciuto wrote:

Not really, loads of ships have unique role bonuses, make this a role bonus of freighters.....

Now the next question: How much mass its "full"?
Oldgrimeyass
Downloaded Bears
#31 - 2013-07-20 17:51:29 UTC
I'm going to have to agree that the Freighter should be more agile and faster than the Archon.
My reasoning comes down to the components used to make these.

In the freighter blueprint you use around 20 Capital propulsion engines

while in an Archon you only use around 6 or 7.

And since this is space and you do not have gravity affecting thrust and aerodynamics do not come in
The Freighter should be more agile than the Archon.

Should it still be slow. YES
Should it still have a long align time YES
Should it be more agile and faster than an Archon YES

This would be something that CCP would need to look into and balance.

Archon Mass 1,113,750,000 kg

Charon Mass 960,000,000kg

Even fully filling the freighter your not going to ever have much more mass than a Archon,

And with all the extra engine force you should by the laws of Physics have more thrust
*Yes I know this is a game*

And there's my 2 cents on the subject
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#32 - 2013-07-20 18:21:52 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:

I just want to point out that the only person bringing up "immersion" is you.

The rest of us are citing gameplay reasons.


Astroniomix wrote:

Freighters are slow because moving gigantic quantities of stuff across the universe is supposed to be somewhat of a big deal.



Ironically the one person that did in fact point out an immersion issue seems incredible close to where you sit behind your keyboard, might want to look into that.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-07-20 18:30:29 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

Ironically the one person that did in fact point out an immersion issue seems incredible close to where you sit behind your keyboard, might want to look into that.

That's not an immersion issue, that's a gameplay one. If moving large amounts of stuff becomes too easy then not only will traders lose more of their already thin margins, but small time industrialists in the far corners of the map have an even harder time competing with the big guys because it becomes easier to just go it jita to buy everything rather than paying slightly more for stuff available locally.
BadSeamus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-07-20 18:49:21 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:


blah, blah, blah my name is BadSeamus and I have nothing to add but like seeing my face posted in forums.


What are you twelve? Your ideas are terrible. Your comparisons are terrible. Your rapier like whit, is terrible. This horse is dead and was dead after the OP, which was terrible, yet you still flog it.

Its simple - moving a lot of stuff should take more effort than moving a little bit of stuff - else there is no 'value' in moving anything, and we just as well have teleports between stations. Whether you consider it immersion breaking or unrealistic or whatever is immaterial. If they make it easy to move everything around, then one 'element' of the game collapses. The whole purpose of it being annoying and slow and risky is that that provides a work->payment, risk->reward, effort->payback mechanic. If you cant see that even with people spelling it out to you, then Eve isn't the sort of game your going to excel at. (IMHO Life isn't a game your going to excel at either - but whatever)
Akiko Sciuto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-07-20 20:31:49 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Now the next question: How much mass its "full"?

Heh yeah now theres a tough one. To be realistic you need to go by mass but that could just potentially cripple a freighter. It's not very realistic but it would probably have to go by volume carried. Not the best but it's all I've got Big smile.

BadSeamus wrote:
What are you twelve? Your ideas are terrible. Your comparisons are terrible. Your rapier like whit, is terrible. This horse is dead and was dead after the OP, which was terrible, yet you still flog it.

Its simple - moving a lot of stuff should take more effort than moving a little bit of stuff - else there is no 'value' in moving anything, and we just as well have teleports between stations. Whether you consider it immersion breaking or unrealistic or whatever is immaterial. If they make it easy to move everything around, then one 'element' of the game collapses. The whole purpose of it being annoying and slow and risky is that that provides a work->payment, risk->reward, effort->payback mechanic. If you cant see that even with people spelling it out to you, then Eve isn't the sort of game your going to excel at. (IMHO Life isn't a game your going to excel at either - but whatever)

*Wipes tear from eye*

It's beautiful....

*Sniff*
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#36 - 2013-07-20 20:38:00 UTC
BadSeamus wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:


blah, blah, blah my name is BadSeamus and I have nothing to add but like seeing my face posted in forums.


What are you twelve? Your ideas are terrible. Your comparisons are terrible. Your rapier like whit, is terrible. This horse is dead and was dead after the OP, which was terrible, yet you still flog it.

Its simple - moving a lot of stuff should take more effort than moving a little bit of stuff - else there is no 'value' in moving anything, and we just as well have teleports between stations. Whether you consider it immersion breaking or unrealistic or whatever is immaterial. If they make it easy to move everything around, then one 'element' of the game collapses. The whole purpose of it being annoying and slow and risky is that that provides a work->payment, risk->reward, effort->payback mechanic. If you cant see that even with people spelling it out to you, then Eve isn't the sort of game your going to excel at. (IMHO Life isn't a game your going to excel at either - but whatever)


blah, blah, blah, my name is Bad Seamus and now I've posted my face in the thread twice, yeah for me!

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Lakitel
4.20ly Mining Range
#37 - 2013-07-20 21:24:25 UTC
You know OP, I made a thread really similar to this : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3263123#post3263123
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#38 - 2013-07-21 18:56:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
Lakitel wrote:
You know OP, I made a thread really similar to this : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3263123#post3263123


I realized during the course of this post that changing the agility of a freighter probably isnt the best solution to its trans-space travel times and that making the adjustment strictly based on faster warp speeds is the way to go, so agree with you there.

On, the concept of adding a single slot here or there to freighters i would rather see them add a full complement of slots just like most other ships and then you tweak your ship as you see fit, no sense in having a thin skinned 900,000m3 charon if the cargo is only 450,000m3 and you could use the other mods for defense or faster align times, etc.

I agree that there will be a general increase in hauling business if freighters trans-space travel times where improved but as you mentioned doing the math to prove this point is hard, basically you would need to implement faster freighter warp times and then check to see if we were right about business picking up but personally i have no doubt that we are right.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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