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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Make all carriers and dreads prone to normal warp disruptors in lowsec.

First post
Author
David Magnus
#61 - 2013-07-17 15:31:32 UTC
Grace,

First let me preface this by saying I have been named the friendliest person in PL by current permanent CSM Vice Chair and famous blogger Ripard Teg: http://jestertrek.blogspot.ca/2012/06/fight-us-maybe.html

I want you to know that I am on your side here. I sympathize with the feeling of being betrayed, and I know how much that sucks. I want you, and everyone else, to have a fun time playing EVE.

When I first started playing EVE, I played with about 5 people from my RL work and we had dreams of carving out a piece of lowsec for ourselves. We wanted to build a drug empire, ransoming civilians into trafficking our wares into highsec. We spent nearly a week scouting out systems, bought everything we needed to setup a tower, researched how to make drugs... and then got killed by pirates with everything we had the very first day we stepped into lowsec. A couple of my friends quit playing EVE and never came back. Eventually, everyone from my office except for me quit playing EVE, while I am now a director in the most famous Alliance in the game.

Do you know the difference between me and my friends who quit?
Do you know the difference between me and you?

Attitude.

Friend, until you are able to get past your sense of entitlement, you will never succeed in this game. Your "solutions" to your perceived problems with the game are to petition CCP to make sweeping mechanics changes that destroy play styles you don't like. You think you DESERVE to have a system of your own in some corner of the galaxy.
This is simply not true.
As Kat Ayclism attempted to explain to you: You need to work for what you have in EVE. You can't force other people to play this open-ended sandbox game the way you want, and so you have to either deal with it and learn from it and expand your horizons, or quit.

I honestly wish you the best of luck, and if at some point you are willing to lay aside your entitled, immature attitude, I'd be happy to explain any part of EVE you might be wondering about, and do whatever I can to help you succeed in this wonderful game without resorting to crying on forum thread for CCP to FORCE others to play the way you want.

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#62 - 2013-07-17 15:37:32 UTC
Grace Ishukone wrote:
DarklordKarn wrote:
Hello kitty island adventure ------ >


Has more players and made more money for its developers than EVE Online did for CCP?
Lol


Also, did you mean ... Deklein ?


Yes, and is a hardcore PvP game.

GTFO. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Violet Winters
I HAVE THE POWER OF GOD AND ANIME ON MY SIDE
Blue Eyes and Exodia Toon Duelist Kingdom Duelers
#63 - 2013-07-17 15:37:49 UTC
David Magnus wrote:
I know your pain, OP.
For over two years I had a high-sec research tower on a moon about six jumps from Jita in an alt-corp.

I went away for just a single weekend, came back, and the tower was completely gone. I had been wardecced, tower destroyed, and then they retracted the war-dec in the span of three days. Needless to say, I was pretty upset as well.

Do you have any suggestions for mechanics to stop that from happening?


Before you leave, take out all valuables, stop all productions, clear it all out and don't be unprepared for something in a game where mechanics allow for simple "wars" that do one thing and that is to destroy assets.

In summary, don't be bad.

CEO - Anglic Eclipse.

Jyn Uin
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#64 - 2013-07-17 15:40:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jyn Uin
David Magnus wrote:


Do you know the difference between me and my friends who quit?
Do you know the difference between me and you?

Attitude.

Friend, until you are able to get past your sense of entitlement, you will never succeed in this game. Your "solutions" to your perceived problems with the game are to petition CCP to make sweeping mechanics changes that destroy play styles you don't like. You think you DESERVE to have a system of your own in some corner of the galaxy.
This is simply not true.
As Kat Ayclism attempted to explain to you: You need to work for what you have in EVE. You can't force other people to play this open-ended sandbox game the way you want, and so you have to either deal with it and learn from it and expand your horizons, or quit.

I honestly wish you the best of luck, and if at some point you are willing to lay aside your entitled, immature attitude, I'd be happy to explain any part of EVE you might be wondering about, and do whatever I can to help you succeed in this wonderful game without resorting to crying on forum thread for CCP to FORCE others to play the way you want.


Grace Ishukone,

At the Pandemic training academy we offer solutions and training to help those with butthurt. We offer courses of varying lengths and prices to fit your personal financial situation starting at 500 million isk, please contact Bluemajere in game for enrollment.
Perseus Kallistratos
The Maverick Navy
#65 - 2013-07-17 15:41:33 UTC
Grace I like your glasses they are so hipster
Grace Ishukone
Ishukone Advanced Research
#66 - 2013-07-17 15:42:00 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


Yes, and is a hardcore PvP game.

GTFO. Roll



Darkfall : Unholy Wars is more of a hardcore PvP game than EVE Online is now. So don't use words like "hardcore pvp" when EVE has non-PVP zones now, you can't evade or kill concord any more, and most of the players in most of the game space are NOT pvping.

EVE Online is a space mining, industry and trading game that *occasionally* has pvp. Don't pretend otherwise, because it is simply not true. If you want a real pvp game, go get one. I say this in the full knowledge that I love mining and making things :)
Max Butched
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-07-17 15:42:56 UTC
application to snuff box accepted.

totally not mad right
Mad Moxie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2013-07-17 15:43:06 UTC
Violet Winters wrote:
David Magnus wrote:
I know your pain, OP.
For over two years I had a high-sec research tower on a moon about six jumps from Jita in an alt-corp.

I went away for just a single weekend, came back, and the tower was completely gone. I had been wardecced, tower destroyed, and then they retracted the war-dec in the span of three days. Needless to say, I was pretty upset as well.

Do you have any suggestions for mechanics to stop that from happening?


Before you leave, take out all valuables, stop all productions, clear it all out and don't be unprepared for something in a game where mechanics allow for simple "wars" that do one thing and that is to destroy assets.

In summary, don't be bad.


so you take down any towers you own if you go away for a weekend ????
saying that wars have been changed so you cant retract it after only a couple days
David Magnus
#69 - 2013-07-17 15:43:08 UTC
Violet Winters wrote:
David Magnus wrote:
I know your pain, OP.
For over two years I had a high-sec research tower on a moon about six jumps from Jita in an alt-corp.

I went away for just a single weekend, came back, and the tower was completely gone. I had been wardecced, tower destroyed, and then they retracted the war-dec in the span of three days. Needless to say, I was pretty upset as well.

Do you have any suggestions for mechanics to stop that from happening?


Before you leave, take out all valuables, stop all productions, clear it all out and don't be unprepared for something in a game where mechanics allow for simple "wars" that do one thing and that is to destroy assets.

In summary, don't be bad.


Haha, yeah, I felt pretty bad about that.
It had sat there for 2 years without ever being touched and so I got lazy.

The only annoying thing is that it was my main who had the standings to anchor it, so I can't put another one up quite as easily.

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion

Violet Winters
I HAVE THE POWER OF GOD AND ANIME ON MY SIDE
Blue Eyes and Exodia Toon Duelist Kingdom Duelers
#70 - 2013-07-17 15:48:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Violet Winters
Mad Moxie wrote:
so you take down any towers you own if you go away for a weekend ????
saying that wars have been changed so you cant retract it after only a couple days


If it was worth several billion, I would rather be safe than come back to an empty moon. But I haven't played around with pos' for a while now, and I'm glad I don't.

David Magnus wrote:
Haha, yeah, I felt pretty bad about that.
It had sat there for 2 years without ever being touched and so I got lazy.

The only annoying thing is that it was my main who had the standings to anchor it, so I can't put another one up quite as easily.


Standings are a pain to get, especially faction. But oh well, I guess that's what eve is about! I've been playing almost 7 years and loved every aspect of it, it's a shame it can't be said for everyone.

CEO - Anglic Eclipse.

David Magnus
#71 - 2013-07-17 15:55:23 UTC
Violet Winters wrote:
Mad Moxie wrote:
so you take down any towers you own if you go away for a weekend ????
saying that wars have been changed so you cant retract it after only a couple days


If it was worth several billion, I would rather be safe than come back to an empty moon. But I haven't played around with pos' for a while now, and I'm glad I don't.

David Magnus wrote:
Haha, yeah, I felt pretty bad about that.
It had sat there for 2 years without ever being touched and so I got lazy.

The only annoying thing is that it was my main who had the standings to anchor it, so I can't put another one up quite as easily.


Standings are a pain to get, especially faction. But oh well, I guess that's what eve is about! I've been playing almost 7 years and loved every aspect of it, it's a shame it can't be said for everyone.


Yeah, definitely - I enjoy EVE a lot and love to try new things in it as well.
Also, through a careful search of the forums you'll discover that I never made a thread demanding mechanics changes when something didn't go my way, and instead I am just dealing with the unfortunate situation and learning from my mistake.

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion

Alaxen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-07-17 15:57:42 UTC
Grace Ishukone wrote:
The idea of the above is to actually have well, pvp.


I'm pretty sure the idea of the above is to not have PVP.

You simply want to swap your POS Tower for an Ivory Tower.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#73 - 2013-07-17 15:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Yes, and is a hardcore PvP game.

GTFO. Roll



Darkfall : Unholy Wars is more of a hardcore PvP game than EVE Online is now. So don't use words like "hardcore pvp" when EVE has non-PVP zones now, you can't evade or kill concord any more, and most of the players in most of the game space are NOT pvping.


Where are these non-pvp zones you speak off? Hi sec? I lost a ship there just recently to PVP. Explain how that happend.

Your definition is stunted as well. Just about everything in Eve is PvP. Market PvP, even these forums...and word of advice your crying a blubbering here is putting a huge target on not just you, but your corp as well.

Quote:
EVE Online is a space mining, industry and trading game that *occasionally* has pvp. Don't pretend otherwise, because it is simply not true. If you want a real pvp game, go get one. I say this in the full knowledge that I love mining and making things :)


Even activities that don't entail shooting guns, missiles or lasers can have PvP in it. That you don't recognize this shows you really don't understand the game.

Also, like Dave Magnus, most of the people I started playing Eve with...they don't log in much anymore. But I found new people to hang with in game. You should try that out too.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Grace Ishukone
Ishukone Advanced Research
#74 - 2013-07-17 16:16:00 UTC
David Magnus wrote:
... I sympathize with the feeling of being betrayed, and I know how much that sucks. I want you, and everyone else, to have a fun time playing EVE.


That's nice, but we were actually betrayed, not feeling of betrayed. A support and access agreement which was critical to our viability in remote null sec was unilaterally cancelled by Pandemic Leigon without notice, who then attempted to extort vast amounts of money from us to be able to continue to play in nullsec. We declined, because renting in nullsec means that highsec is economically superior given the current game dynamics (assuming you have no good moons, which renters do not get).

CCP failed in Odyssey to address critical economic realities: the value of ore mined went up, but so too did the cost of jump fuel. The game in its current iteration makes items from highsec essentail for play in nullsec, for example materials for warp disruptors that come only from highsec (including lowsec) stations, which must be imported as they cannot be made or realistically looted in nullsec. Implants, sov upgrades and skillbooks are the extreme of that dependency on highsec. Those factors mean that newer players simply cannot survive in nullsec without easy access to highsec, whether personally or via corp/alliance jf That means the cost of fuel is critical, as jumps are needed regardless of what is made in nullsec. As such, economically nullsec is marginal at best and a loss at worst for most alliances who are not strong enough to own good moons. That is why most of nullsec is dead and empty, despite the design intent of the Odyssey changes to ice fields and nullsec ore types. Nice idea, but fundamentally Odyssey failed in that regard. Dead and empty play space is largely doomed to stay dead and empty - there may be a short term bump as people try things, but mechanically it is better to run highsec missions and buy things in Jita than to play in nullsec, due to the dual costs of player time and JF fuel. That is why we see most of the players in the game in highsec, and most nullsec systems entirely empty except for random POS harvesting moon goo off the relatively rare profitable moons.

What did we do? We entered a dead and unwanted system, put in an iHub, took it from nothing to military 4 industry 3 inside a month, and were literally building our first carrier to be built there. At which point Pandemic Legion betrayed us by cancelling the agreement we had with them. We did nothing wrong, we never knew why PL screwed us over. Probably because we were not paying rent for the space you owned, even though your name is not on the sov map.

So you can dress it up as much as you want, you can be as caring as you want. You guys stole our home, and many of my friends simply ceased playing because they are smarter than I am. I want this game to succeed, I want to have fun in EVE. They know that unless you have a credit card or years to wait for having the skills to fly the big ships that matter, you are pretty much doomed.

You can say "join the mega zergs!" ... but if I wanted to be one of the millions of clones, I would just log in my WoW toon. Honestly that's not a bad idea, the low level battlegrounds in WoW have more challenging pvp than EVE. EVE has strategic pvp, but usually the tactical pvp is over before it begins. Like 12 caps dropping in - can't possibly beat them, probably not even able to kill even one of them, jump out. That is EVE pvp in its current form. And it's pretty boring, to be honest. I love the strategic element, but to be honest the game gets very thin very fast beyond that.

I want to have fun playing EVE. But between Odyssey and Pandemic Leigon and their ilk, the simple reality is that I can't engage in the playstyle I love. Not because I want to rule the world, but because I want to play in some musty forgotten corner of nullsec, where random neuts turn up and we reship to pvp them. But that's not possible any more - the mega alliances want *every* corner of the map, there is simply no place for independent alliances any more.

That's the inevitably consequence of mechanics that allow people to own things without being there, and instant travel enabling small numbers to project power over vast distances. Those are basic mechanics, and they doomed Darkfall 1.0 to failure - so don't be too confident in your arrogance. CCP's devs are not stupid, they know they have a problem on thier hands and are going to inevitably make changes to address them. But if you don't like my ideas and you don't provide better ones, then you get whatever they come up with. You might not like that.

Why am I so pissed? Pandemic Leigon took my home, ruined my gameplay, and led to many of my friends stopping playing. Then they have the gall to implicitly admit they don't want to play in nullsec either. WTF people, WTF. If you wanted to pvp us, you should have left us in nullsec - there were more of us playing EVE then. So yes, Pandemic, you are demonstrating the core issue with EVE at this time - nullsec is failing to achieve its game purpose, and mega alliances are exacerbating the problem. Because players with power have not addressed the issue, then inevitably CCP are going to have to step in with coding changes. So yes, if you want all of nullsec you can have it - but you can't have all of lowsec as well, because about then 5,000 players control all the moons in the game, and the other 250,000 paying customers will start to ask CCP for little simple changes, like removing nullsec from the game - after all, no-one really uses it, right? Shocked
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#75 - 2013-07-17 16:18:54 UTC
Grace Ishukone wrote:

Darkfall : Unholy Wars is more of a hardcore PvP game than EVE Online is now.


Posting to confirm I got trolled.... I watched the Darkfall trailer and saw loads of fairies and stuff, plus a distinct lack of spaceships.

It looks ****... enjoy your fairies

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted

Violet Winters
I HAVE THE POWER OF GOD AND ANIME ON MY SIDE
Blue Eyes and Exodia Toon Duelist Kingdom Duelers
#76 - 2013-07-17 16:23:27 UTC
suid0 wrote:
Posting to confirm I got trolled.... I watched the Darkfall trailer and saw loads of fairies and stuff, plus a distinct lack of spaceships.

It looks ****... enjoy your fairies


Sounds awesome, where do I sign up?

CEO - Anglic Eclipse.

David Magnus
#77 - 2013-07-17 16:32:32 UTC
Grace Ishukone wrote:
David Magnus wrote:
... I sympathize with the feeling of being betrayed, and I know how much that sucks. I want you, and everyone else, to have a fun time playing EVE.


That's nice, but we were actually betrayed, not feeling of betrayed. A support and access agreement which was critical to our viability in remote null sec was unilaterally cancelled by Pandemic Leigon without notice, who then attempted to extort vast amounts of money from us to be able to continue to play in nullsec.

At which point Pandemic Legion betrayed us by cancelling the agreement we had with them. We did nothing wrong, we never knew why PL screwed us over. Probably because we were not paying rent for the space you owned, even though your name is not on the sov map.


Are you saying that your corp/alliance wasn't paying the rent money owed according to the rental agreement?

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion

Emizeko Chai
Freight Club
#78 - 2013-07-17 16:33:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Emizeko Chai
Hi Grace,

Have you considered wormholes? Where capital numbers are heavily limited by mass, and no supers can be fielded.
That would fit your musty forgotten home idea pretty well I think. Supply lines require probing but nobody can hot drop you.

One thing I want to clear up is the mixup as far as carriers and dreads being pointable. The confusion stems from something called "coasting out". When in siege, dreads and carriers gain ewar invulnerability and cannot be pointed, but they can't jump out or move. This means that there is a very short time when siege ends where they might be able to jump before a point can be applied. The counters to this are in increasing order of effectiveness spamming point, neuts or a HIC.

You can easily have a home somewhere. You might have to try a few locations until you find somewhere out of the way enough, is all.

Best of luck.
Grace Ishukone
Ishukone Advanced Research
#79 - 2013-07-17 16:36:32 UTC
suid0 wrote:
Grace Ishukone wrote:

Darkfall : Unholy Wars is more of a hardcore PvP game than EVE Online is now.


Posting to confirm I got trolled.... I watched the Darkfall trailer and saw loads of fairies and stuff, plus a distinct lack of spaceships.

It looks ****... enjoy your fairies


Don't watch old Darkfall 1.0 videos and mistake them for Darkfall : Unholy Wars (they remade the game entirely).

But yes, when you can kill some unsuspecting player mining, walk up to them and hack their head off to finish them, then rifle though their stuff to see what you want to take of theirs, it's pvp all right. That the miner might blast you with a fireball rather than have the good grace to meekly fall down just adds to the spice.

Mining ships in EVE never kill the attacker. Concord does that.

As for spaceships ... you do remember we can't actually pilot them, right? EVE VR looks amazing, but again it's a game with wonderful potential that could outstrip EVE itself as a commercially important product for CCP. EVE Online won't close its servers any time soon ... but it may well carebear it up more and more and MUCH more than it has already. If you disagree or ask why, then you have not been paying attention to CCP's business model and statements around Dust. It's meant to draw new players into EVE ... and to be honest, the comments above are simply reinforcing the widely held perception that if you don't have 2 years or more training time to waste (or a credit card), you really are pretty much locked out of the more interesting pvp EVE Online has to offer.

Oh and skills ... WTF CCP. I go away for a couple years, come back, and see all these nice new skills to *widen* the gap between new and not-new players,. such that you get vets in advanced ships that *always* jam newer players. Always works, never misses, never fails ... these are terms that apply in WoW PvP. To see skills added that effectively implement them into EVE Online as well just makes me cringe.

So yes, CCP. You buffed all kinds of things to hell and back ... if you keep that approach, do the whole job, not just parts of it. Buff POS guns too, POS gunnery skills, and anti-cyno toys for lowsec. While you are at it, bring back mines - but make them anti-capital only, lowsec and null. And add minesweeper mods / specailist minelayer ship / minesweeper ship. Why not?
Alaxen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-07-17 16:43:31 UTC
I don't think you get EVE.