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New Dev Blog: Player-owned Customs Office

First post First post
Author
Tas Nok
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1701 - 2011-11-08 17:39:14 UTC
Really looking for and awaiting the Dev response to how this will be changed WRT player feedback in this thread.

the POS fuel changes came out roughly 24hrs ago and we've already seen that get fixed into something that is simpler but doesn't nerf faction towers to S***

waiting for the same sort of common sense here? PLS?

Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#1702 - 2011-11-08 18:01:34 UTC
Tas Nok wrote:
Really looking for and awaiting the Dev response to how this will be changed WRT player feedback in this thread.

the POS fuel changes came out roughly 24hrs ago and we've already seen that get fixed into something that is simpler but doesn't nerf faction towers to S***

waiting for the same sort of common sense here? PLS?



My personal hope is that they're going back to the drawing board a bit - which is why we haven't heard anything in a week. Given how close it is now to expansion release day, I wouldn't be surprised if they push it off until the next big update after the initial expansion patch.

The POS fuel changes were mostly just tweaks to the numbers - the basic concept didn't change.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#1703 - 2011-11-08 18:09:47 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Tas Nok wrote:
Really looking for and awaiting the Dev response to how this will be changed WRT player feedback in this thread.

the POS fuel changes came out roughly 24hrs ago and we've already seen that get fixed into something that is simpler but doesn't nerf faction towers to S***

waiting for the same sort of common sense here? PLS?



My personal hope is that they're going back to the drawing board a bit - which is why we haven't heard anything in a week. Given how close it is now to expansion release day, I wouldn't be surprised if they push it off until the next big update after the initial expansion patch.

The POS fuel changes were mostly just tweaks to the numbers - the basic concept didn't change.


I hope you're right on this one. I could feel the changes sneaking up on me from behind, and the Nex is all out of vaseline. Shocked

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

khazak mokl
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1704 - 2011-11-08 19:24:40 UTC
I still cant believe after 86 pages that people are complaining about not having enough time to get the materials and BPC for the customs offices. I am not a member of a mega corp or alliance and I can see the benefits already and different ways to make isk.
Change comes to us all and you have to adapt or die. Its time to stop crying and toughen up.
Alot of this moaning is because people think they could not make as much isk as resourses will have more compatition but this will drive up the prices so even if you harvest less the price you get paid at market is more and it balances out.
If you want to earn even more you have to venture out into unprotected space and danger. You risk more so your rewards are more in relation. Just like in the real world. If you want to play in cuddly-wuddly -ville and be nice and safe I suggest playing some other game.

EVE's main draw for me is there is consequences to your actions and if you die you experience physical and monatary loss and not just respawn at a temple or some crap and have to just walk over to your corpse and reclaim all your gear.


I say bring on the proposed changes


Pirate
Oreth Te
NOVA TECH
#1705 - 2011-11-08 20:15:04 UTC
Red Zaya wrote:
Feffri wrote:
i'm actually pissed i'm in a small corp and don't know how we're going to afford our poses after null sec alliances take over all our planets

Edit: Inappropriate parts removed, CCP Phantom


guess the "inappropriate parts" were probably the result of how upset small corps and alliance can be with this Bear Well, YES obviously CCP want to help huge blocks more than ever and let smaller entities become hostages ... maybe after this summer action we will need a winter action to let them know smaller entities are the huge majority of their clients.


I have to agree.

However, as I understand this is to allow players more scope and interaction to develop and integrate the PI aspect more into EVE However CCP appear to have totally forgotten about the Wspace communities
Factual example: - a small Corp of say 5 or 6 running a POS in Wspace(A full Tower mind not one of the Mickey Mouse ones) who have been skilful and hardy enough to setup shop in a WH (Which allegedly is what EVE and its renowned sand box is all about).this Corp who's PI is predominantly focused on providing fuel Items for their Tower. (Not all some have to be produced or bought elsewhere (from any excesses produced) due to the planetary types in said WH).
Point :- After the massive layout of costs to ensure that the POCO’s can be produced if they in fact can make them before they run out of fuel reserves.
Where do CCP expect WSpacer’s to get passing trade from to collect revenue from in the WH.
The only passing Pilots are there to shoot stuff either them or the Sleepers (which is just as it should be) that’s fine and accepted by all They sure are not going to get ANY of them to be interested in PI.
So the WSpacer’s will never get any benefit from a POCO’s in Wspace. I am talking about the deeper communities here. So in effect thePOCO’s are totally pointless and fruitless in WSpace.

A possibility could be that they should be Concorde deployed and owned but capable of being disabled by a reasonable concerted attack giving a bounty to those attacking it as Concorde cannot reach Wspace. That way the WSpacer’s can be still impacted upon by the PVP groups but not driven out business by CCP’s way of switching all CO’s off in the blink of an eye then saying go to it and it forces the resident Corp to devote some time in repairing them and brining them back on line to continue their PI. The resident Corp can also get the chance to fight back either during the onslaught
Or if the group decide to log out stay there for more opportune moments which already happens the PVP can occur on any given time or day keeping everyone on their toes however, the balance is that when the WH closes they too have to scan a new exit to replenish supplies to continue or withdraw and their scanning ships can be a risk much more of an exciting scenario when everyone gets a fair share of the risk and gain.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1706 - 2011-11-08 20:51:11 UTC
Rui Siyuan wrote:
We know how much these POCO BPCs are going to cost, LP and ISK-wise. But how many runs will they each carry?



My money is on 1 run....

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#1707 - 2011-11-08 22:37:31 UTC
I still believe the change as currently planned is way wrong for low sec. Low sec COs need to stay some variation of NPC controlled otherwise all they are is a the new roaming pirate gank hobby and little guy PI in low sec is over. Done like dinner.

Issler
Nose ElGrande
Swarm Of Locusts
#1708 - 2011-11-09 04:39:23 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
olsted wrote:
So here we are over two weeks since the devblog. There has been a substantial amount of feedback regarding the implementation. We've seen evidence of CCP listening (or atleast taking notes).

Wheres the v2 of the draft of this idea that addresses the raised (and enumerated) concerns either through "you're right were gonna fix that" or "thats not a concern for us at this time" point by point?

Communication is a 2 way street and other than someone taking notes im not seeing any responses here.

(unless you count the nifty videos about art in development... Im pretty sure theres a shiny monkey in em if you look closely enough!"

Thanks,
-O.


We have a follow up devblog drafted and are just waiting on confirmation to some changes before releasing more details. No promises, but maybe early next week?

Besides, you should be busy gawking over new BCs anyway P



It is early midweek. We have gawked at the BCs, they did not captivate us as much as the POCO proposal...

Will CCP allow the rollout to be controlled by the players by allowing the destruction of NPC COs?

Will CCP realize that the model of P2-P4 assembly in HS is *not* a universal practice and that many *do* complete their products on LS/0.0/WH planets and then ship them to market?

Will CCP permit the anchoring of defensive arrays to deter random bashing of POCOs, and give a more reasoned response than 'it will stimulate small group PvP' which doesn't apply in WHs.

Will CCP explain why a Corp owned and operated POCO cannot include Corp/group accessable hangers? Specifically why this is so diffficult to include.

We welcome your response and hope it is as reasonable as the POS fuel proposal one was.

Thanks!

Zhan Kor
Red Lion Commerce Group
#1709 - 2011-11-09 13:03:21 UTC
Who's going to run everything? ONLY the most powerful PC Organizations!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :( Cutting the rest of us out . Thanx CCP

Zhan Kor 

        -CBSU Founder and CEO

Zeronic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1710 - 2011-11-09 16:18:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeronic
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Nullabor - any updates to report? There are a lot of REAL concerns here that seem to be getting ignored. For one, I really can't believe you think simply removing all the customs offices without allowing any sort of ramp up time for people to buy the BPs, manufacture the PCOs and move them into place is in any way a good idea. You're simply breaking PI during what may be a long transition cycle for absolutely no reason whatsoever. You're really screwing a ton of people over heavily if you follow that ill-advised path to destruction.



I have to agree 200%.

The Concord ones should be left in place. As Planet get their new POCO installed, the Concord ones go offline and at down time all of it material are send to the closest station a pilot has a ship in.

Thou I think it should go another way. Where player invest in the Concord Custom Office, allowing for it to have larger storage and remote launching (even if you need an additional skill). POCO is not a bad idea, just it doesn't fit in the bigger picture of internet spaceships.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1711 - 2011-11-09 19:25:25 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Nullabor - any updates to report? There are a lot of REAL concerns here that seem to be getting ignored. For one, I really can't believe you think simply removing all the customs offices without allowing any sort of ramp up time for people to buy the BPs, manufacture the PCOs and move them into place is in any way a good idea. You're simply breaking PI during what may be a long transition cycle for absolutely no reason whatsoever. You're really screwing a ton of people over heavily if you follow that ill-advised path to destruction.


Just to chime in and mentioning that this thread isn't forgotten or abandoned by the devs.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#1712 - 2011-11-09 19:33:04 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Nullabor - any updates to report? There are a lot of REAL concerns here that seem to be getting ignored. For one, I really can't believe you think simply removing all the customs offices without allowing any sort of ramp up time for people to buy the BPs, manufacture the PCOs and move them into place is in any way a good idea. You're simply breaking PI during what may be a long transition cycle for absolutely no reason whatsoever. You're really screwing a ton of people over heavily if you follow that ill-advised path to destruction.


Just to chime in and mentioning that this thread isn't forgotten or abandoned by the devs.


Thank you for that, it's appreciated.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Cerulean Ice
Royal Amarr Reclamation
#1713 - 2011-11-09 20:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Cerulean Ice
CCP Phantom wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Nullabor - any updates to report? There are a lot of REAL concerns here that seem to be getting ignored. For one, I really can't believe you think simply removing all the customs offices without allowing any sort of ramp up time for people to buy the BPs, manufacture the PCOs and move them into place is in any way a good idea. You're simply breaking PI during what may be a long transition cycle for absolutely no reason whatsoever. You're really screwing a ton of people over heavily if you follow that ill-advised path to destruction.


Just to chime in and mentioning that this thread isn't forgotten or abandoned by the devs.

Then maybe you can explain why you're making POS fuel management easier while simultaneously making PI for making said POS fuel horribly complicated and bad for all the POS-owners out there? I'm all for more things being player controlled, but this idea doesn't bring anything good to the game.

A recurring theme in the classes EVE-University has regarding nulsec and sov mechanics (with guest lecturers from the big nulsec alliances) is that attacking structures is boring as all hell. Why add another boring structure with another boring reinforcement timer? I really want to know the reason for this. It makes no sense right now.
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#1714 - 2011-11-09 20:53:48 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Nullabor - any updates to report? There are a lot of REAL concerns here that seem to be getting ignored. For one, I really can't believe you think simply removing all the customs offices without allowing any sort of ramp up time for people to buy the BPs, manufacture the PCOs and move them into place is in any way a good idea. You're simply breaking PI during what may be a long transition cycle for absolutely no reason whatsoever. You're really screwing a ton of people over heavily if you follow that ill-advised path to destruction.


Just to chime in and mentioning that this thread isn't forgotten or abandoned by the devs.

It may not have been forgotten or abandoned by the community team or CCP Nullarbor. But CCP Omen is the one who can provide actual design answers, and he stopped replying to this thread 5 hours after it was published.

The contrast with the hybrid and pos fuel threads is striking and it reminds me of CCP's worst times.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#1715 - 2011-11-09 21:27:22 UTC
Jack Dant wrote:

It may not have been forgotten or abandoned by the community team or CCP Nullarbor. But CCP Omen is the one who can provide actual design answers, and he stopped replying to this thread 5 hours after it was published.

The contrast with the hybrid and pos fuel threads is striking and it reminds me of CCP's worst times.


Most of the feedback in the POS fuel thread is balance issues - and basically just tweaking some numbers. This is a much more complex issue. So depending on how much they have to rework or reconsider, you're not going to get immediate answers.

(Although it would be nice if the BPOs could be seeded a month or so ahead of any planned change-over, at a minimum.)
Nemesis Factor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1716 - 2011-11-10 00:25:29 UTC
Now, I don't know a lot about WH living, but I was under the assumption there were never any customs offices in WH space, in which case, what the hell is changing?

If there ARE customs offices in WH space, then they should have never been there. It doesn't make any sense. the DED comes in and erects stations around WH planets? There is no population or industry there, WHY.
Marcus Henik
Rules of Acquisition
#1717 - 2011-11-10 00:35:50 UTC
Without wading through 80 pages of posts. #1 as a w space pi guy, no guns no way. These things are way to expensive and way to vunerable. #2 needs to be in high sec, the cash flow from certain planets would mean epic pew pew from magor corps and alliances. It's very hard to play station games when the station is out of reach. It could make high sec warfare fun again.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#1718 - 2011-11-10 02:54:26 UTC
Nemesis Factor wrote:
Now, I don't know a lot about WH living, but I was under the assumption there were never any customs offices in WH space, in which case, what the hell is changing?

If there ARE customs offices in WH space, then they should have never been there. It doesn't make any sense. the DED comes in and erects stations around WH planets? There is no population or industry there, WHY.


There are indeed customs offices, and they're necessary due to the inability of your rocket launch mechanics to move not only significant amounts of materials off planet, but the inability to launch materials to planets for further refining. It's an example where necessity is greater than a twitch in someone's lore. Without customs offices PI in wormholes grinds to a halt. That's the major problem with the current idea of simply removing them cold turkey like that... it completely breaks PI production in wormholes. Robotics, for example, become impossible.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1719 - 2011-11-10 13:03:31 UTC
Can we be given a follow up blog on this?

Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)

Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1720 - 2011-11-10 15:48:17 UTC
So much good news coming out...

Between GCC remote repping changes, and ingame fitting screen DPS statistic addition ...


Don't drop the good news ball Team Pi!

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf