Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I couldn't agree more Gunslinger.

I have been at work, so let me take a moment to respond to a few comments.

Mag's

If you're going to ignore my comparision to shadowbane, then you are ignoring a key part of my idea. It is clear you don't know much about this game, as you have suggested that I go play it. Well that isn't possible, as Ubisoft closed the game after they absorbed Wolfpack studios, several years ago.

There is nothing wrong with using an idea from somewhere else and molding it to fit the situation. Eve and Shadowbane are very simular, as they are both sandbox games, with heavy PVP and PVE content.

I am not ignorant to the fact that people have made suggestions about this in the past. I know this issue has been talked about. If you aren't interested in trying to help offer a solution, then you are more than welcome to not respond.

As for the cloaky floating off in one direction in a system. Yes, they could do that. It would make tracking them that much harder, but not impossible.

So with your final question. What do I really want? What I want is a way to fight back. What happens when a fleet of battleships comes into your system? Usually a CTA is called and there is an attempt to remove them. So, same thing here. If a group of hostiles comes into my home, I am asking for the ablitly to be able to fight back. Is there anything wrong with that? Why should I allow you to sit in my home system and just gather intel or threaten my opertations and no be able to do something about it? Industrial corps have invested heavily in their home systems with stations, POSs and other items. These items should give them a home field advantage. If a Hulk is parked in a POS, he is paying for his protection by fueling the POS or even being the one that built it. All these defensive structures take time and should provide the protection that they currently do.

With that said, it would seem that you dislike this idea. People have suggested that people cant hide in stations, or in POSs. What sense does this make? Honestly. They built or bought their home. Why should they not use it for what it is meant for. In turn with that said, PVPers risk very little by invading other systems. The worst is their ship, possibly their pod and more than likely no implants if its a suicide run. So if I understand right, you want me to be vulnerable to your attack, while I am mining or ratting, and be perfectly ok with the idea that I am in a ship that is no where near equiped to fight a well equiped PVP ship. How is this balanced? TO me it seems like you are just looking for the easy kills.

I have made the suggestion that local be changed. Take black ops ships and any ship that can use the covert ops out of the local channel. This is a huge buff to the current cloak. This means that unless you engage a target, no one would know you are in the area. Now that in itself is far too powerful and though I am sure it would be loved by the PVP player, I would hope you could agree it's not balanced.

So the scout ship comes into existance. This ship would need to be properly balanced for its role. It's a pretty fair trade if you ask me.

This idea increases PVP. It's an almost perfert promise that a cloak gang would score a kill every time they went on a roam. Industrials would have to be on gaurd far more, and be looking over their shoulder at any given moment. The mechanics I suggested for the scout ship leave it very limited on what it can and cant do. if you have a good scout, its unlikely that a successful gank will happen, UNLESS you destroy the scout. Once that ship is gone from system, then the cloaks would have a much larger advantage.

But it provides industrials the chance to respond. I wont fight you in a Hulk. There is no reason to even think thats worth it. But if I get a combat, I am undocked and quite ready to fight. This however puts the ball in your court. Are you willing to risk your ships against other combat ships? Are you willing to put your skills as a pilot out there? That's a decision you have to make.

This idea isnt perfect but I am honestly trying to think of a way to combat cloaky camping, and be fair on all sides.

You all seem to think I am just wanting to carebear it up with no risk. My plan suggestions nothing of the sort. It suggests that I want to come fight you but I wont do it when I know there is no chance of victory. No one would.

I am sure there are other things I need to answer as well. I will do that when I get home.

Where are your demands that people sitting in a pos bubble or outpost get ejected and blown up, alt boy?

PLEASE REFRAIN FROM THAT TYPE OF POST












We will not allow logic or reason to be used to counter a stupid idea. Please consider yourself a bad person. ;)

Any ideas along these lines needs to be tied to sov or it badly messes with other parts of the game where cloaking is working perfectly fine.

I do have a tiny bit of sympathy as in extreme cases its abused to the point that to put it into a wormhole concept it would be like someone having the ability to suddenly open an almost unlimited mass wormhole straight to one of the big C5/6 corps right beside your bearing fleet while you have everything locked down. But for the most part IMO its part and parcel for living in null.

That is an official ROFFLESTOMP.

Well played.

That's really a philosophical question. I would hazard a guess and say some fall into either category, and more than a few fall into both.

Right now they have no opportunity to engage the target ships, for the perfect avoidance defense exists.
If it should become possible for them to force a failure in this, or even have a realistic chance to do so, then we will know.

If it is balanced, then whoever makes the best and smartest efforts will prevail, while the other side will know they were beaten.
It will be nice to have this resolved in an interesting way, rather than that persistent stalemate effect.

I agree it would be nice to resolve this stalemate.

As for WH space. I am not exactly sure its fair to compare it. People that live in WH space fly ships that are setup very different than a null sec industrial would. They really are setup to fight, almost like being in a PVP ship. I can see what you are saying here, and it makes sense but I am not sure its a fair comparison. D-scanning isn't as effective either, since cloaked ships don't show up on scans.

If I am understanding this right, PVPers want a way to engage their targets. They currently feel that local provides too much intel and it makes it easy for people to run home when even slightly threatened. With industrials, they feel that they aren't given a proper chance to combat a threat in their system, since at current there is no way to engage a cloak ship, unless that ship decides to engage them. Thus the stalemate is created. Industrials stay docked and PVPers float in space, not getting a fight.

I personally would be more than welcome to float in space and fight hostile forces, however I am not going to attempt to engage a target I know is far superior to the ship I am in. Namely a PVP ship vs an industrial barge or PVE fight rat ship.

Though like I said in an earlier post. I don't think its fair to complain that people run to stations or POSs. These items were built and placed in space as defensive structures.

I think what it boils down to is PVPers want the ability to fight mining barges more effectively. I can understand this. If your in a war, the best way to win that war is to destroy the factories producing the war machines. The current use of local as intel makes it harder for an invading force to come into a territory and destroy things. I can understand how this would be frustrating, however look at it this way. You are moving into a highly populated area where it should be more difficult to accomplish a goal, though not impossible.

I do agree there needs to be a change on both sides. PVPers should be able to be more effective in their attempts to engage deeper in hostile territory, however that shouldn't one side. There should be a balanced counter where people can better defend their homes. I think a lot of the current frustration comes from the fact that people feel their hands are tied and they cant do anything.

My thread here is an attempt at a solution. It might not be the ultimate solution buts an attempt at one.

It's not just a desire to catch miners, in fact I don't care about miners, I want to catch people in stupid blinged out unnecessary ratting ships. From t3s to faction BS to capitals and even supers - it's far too easy for them to scurry off to safety as a result of local.

The fact of the matter is that local results in there being virtually no risk for those people, the art of sitting cloaked in a system is the only way to potentially catch those people. Sitting there long enough that they poke their heads out.

Trying to reduce or combat the ability for people to sit there and wait for their prey to make a mistake, without doing anything to balance the other side of it, is wrong. If you want a way to combat cloaked ships sitting doing nothing, I want a way to combat the people who shoot off the millisecond local changes.

As for comments about people in wormholes being in more pvp capable ships... what on earth prevents null sec pvers from doing the same, other than sheer greed and the misguided idea that they're entitled to safety?

Why should I not be allowed the ability to combat a threat in my system? Explain this to me. A PVPer comes into my system in a cloak. I manage to dock up my mining or ratting ship and return in a PVP ship. There is NOTHING I can do to combat the threat at all. I have put myself on the grid, I am ready to fight, but I have to wait for the cloaky to engage me. I can setup a gate camp with a bubble. What happens? Cloak warps in at 100KM seens the bubble or simply just dscans the bubble and decides its not worth the effort. He sits in the system and does nothing. The moment a PVPer feels they don't have the advantage, they run and hide.

You claim I want some freedom to be perfectly safe and this isn't the case. ALL I have advocated for is a chance to actually FIGHT back. You can spin this idea to say anything but the truth is, I am asking for a chance to defend the space I call home and I am suggesting it with the concept of battle.

if you come into a system I call home, I should be able to defend myself and ignoring you isn't the answer.

As for why PVE ratting ships aren't setup like PVP ships. I think that's quite obvious. A ratting ship is setup to deal with a different situation. They are dealing with 10-20 npc ships engaging them at any given time. It's strictly a different mechanic. A PVP ship wouldn't be able to run a PVE sit as well as a PVE ship would, and the same applies to the opposite. A PVE fit ship wouldn't be as effective in a PVP combat situation.