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I support all these changes.

Is there any idea that we will get reinforce timers like sov structures or the customs offices will have?

Also, truely public Mobile Laboratories would be one of my favorite updates to POSs.

you're a moron.

you think that oil magically appears and the refining companies are not changing their sale prices, and that the oil has an arbitrary price set by the economy god? whoever is selling that oil is making a butt-ton of money - in the OIL business.

I think you're overlooking who created the system in the first place. It's kind of hard to break the rules you yourself create and are responsible for modifying... especially when you told everyone up front that this system would change and grow over time to include a much more competitive nature.

@ Sukee



Supply and demand is constantly shifting, being affected by innumerable influences constantly. Some of those are largely permanent, some temporary, some are intentional efforts to influence the balance in a particular area for a profit, most are unintended results of... efforts to influence other area's of the market for profit.

The rules of the game shift, the market reacts and stabilizes... just as it always has. If a combination of unforeseen circumstances caused a large scale collapse the rules could just as easily be tweaked again.

So far, every time CCP has taken a step to put more aspects of the market in players hands doom has been predicted, speculation runs wild, some win and some lose, and every time in the end the market ends up stronger than before.

Thus is the nature of EVE.

Actually if you're going to call people a moron you should do a little research. Typically oil company's, you know the guys making a "butt load of money", only pull about 8%-13% profit a year. Typically. There may be occasionally a company that gets lucky and does better, or one that gets unlucky and does worse but typically that's where their profit margins are riding.

On the other hand, Google does about 76% Profit a year. So why not ***** about them?

Don't let the word billions make you think people are making absurd money every time you hear the news talk about evil empires. In the case of the oil industry they have big expenses to go with that and their investors deserve a reasonable return on investment... 8-13% is far from unreasonable.

Sorry to be off topic, just saying if you are going to call someone a moron, you should probably do a little homework.

Sorry sukee, I was typing when you posted last. To avoid pyramid quoting:



I'm more focused on the main points made in this thread than about the changes about to occur with custom offices, this is true.

However I will point out again that there is not a lot of large scale PI in low sec, and certainly not in null sec, done by new players. That may be a matter of definition, but I'm calling a new player as one that has been in EVE less than 3 months (give or take)... one that is still in the process of doing tutorials or has recently completed them and struck out to make their own fortune.

Exceptions exist undoubtedly, but most have been at the game long enough not to be considered "new". Those players are at the point in their career where they need to make a decision. That being:

1: Do I want to stay solo, knowing that many things will be more difficult and that some things will be virtually impossible to do on my own.

2: Do I want to formalize some of the relationships I have built in game so far and either join or create a corp that is dedicated, in part or in whole, to the things that I like doing in game. In this case PI and other industry related activities.

This is not a bad thing, and either choice is valid.

The changes to customs offices is not unexpected, and even more competitiveness will be coming in the near future. This should come as no surprise to anyone, and none of these steps are intended to alienate new players. PI can appeal to all experience levels in one way or another, but there will definitely be some aspects of it (and some area's) that are new/solo player appropriate and some that are not.

Just like the rest of the game.

- Bump because the guy is 100% on the mark.

Another thing mentioned by a couple people in the thread that would be useful: An ability to charge for JB use with controls similar to those that Teclador proposed above.

I really dont see what everyone's problem is



This is the only semi-legitimate problem but really with good research and industry 5, you can manufacture these things in 6 minutes 45 seconds which means a month's worth of fuel is 3 days 9 hours in manufacturing.

with an AAA manufacturing is 5 minutes 3 seconds, meaning a months worth of fuel is 2 days 12 hours 36 minutes this means a single AAA can make POS fuel for 59 (technically 59.4) large POSs in a month , , , thats not too bad.



you do realize that they just made all medium and small towers cheaper right? a medium faction tower even with 0 consumption of liquid ozone and heavy water used to take 183 million a month at current prices, and now it takes 182 million a month at current prices . . . yes you lose some of your advantage over other medium towers, but its better than it was before, what do you want from them.

For large towers they could actually give you the buff 25% we'll have to see.

On that note, i really dislike the idea of making the tower cycle longer, i dont think they can even do that, why not just make the fuel blocks like RAM modules so that they can take "damage" and make regular towers do 100% and faction towers do 75% or something like that?



I really dont get this one . . . you were fine with buying the fuel, why are you now NOT fine with buying the fuel blocks? 6 of one half a dozen of the other.

If you live out in 0.0 and make your own PI products, then too bad, so do I, you have to manufacture the blocks on site . . . 0.0 is too easy anyway.



#1 why werent you using your tower 100%??? its WH space, you should be using every nook and cranny
#2 Ive never met a WH corp that takes in more volume of stuff than it puts out, so it should be the same amount of hauling, you just arent empty coming back in any more.

quit complaining, these changes are awesome!

Hello,

didn't red all the comments, so maybe someone already mentioned it, but you could modify consumption times for faction towers instead of fuel consumption over the same time. For eg. small faction tower would consume 1 cube every 1.15 hours, instead of 1 every 1 hour.

No worries man.

We're just going to agree to disagree. Our point of disagreement seems to be how often new players do PI in lowsec and nullsec. You say it's rare, and it very well may be in your experience.

On the other hand, in my experience 90% of the people I train on a daily basis have played the game for less than 3 months and ALL of them get their income from doing PI in lowsec/nullsec. The very few new players that I interact with who do not get their isk through PI do not engage in it because they don't like the logistical aspect of it. But that's the vast minority.

I'd like folks to keep in mind that one person's corp experience isn't like the next person's corp experience. Our alliance focuses on training new pilots to PVP. That means when they come online, we take them PvPing. They have zero interest in running missions in high sec to make isk and they have zero interest in other aspects of the game. The only thing that keeps them playing is PvP. When CCP takes their only isk making ability away, they will be left with no choice but to go to high sec or quit the game.

I understand that all this talk will amount to nothing. I have no delusions. But I also want CCP to realize that when they mess with the market's supply and demand, the people who are hurt the most are the new players whose profit margin is the lowest. Not the fat cat CEO whose POS is now going to cost .05% less to fuel per month.

Faction towers are an outdated resource that CCP seems intent to phase out. As a result, I'm against them adding another T2-BPO style advantage to the game that will be out of the reach of the majority of players in the future.

I'm completely comfortable with the fuel requirement bonus being removed and replaced with something that doesn't affect the bottom line.