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Increase PVP and combat afk cloaky camping
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Tecate
Special Tactics Force Unit Gits
#61 - 2013-06-23 23:48:20 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Cloaking is fine and working as intended, what's broken is the nature of mining and the null bears that run mining bots, all of these afk cloaking threads are an attempt by botters to keep their incomes intact. There's nothing worse than coming home from a hard days work to find that all of your mining bots have docked up because a single guy showed up in system and stayed there. Think of the lost iskies.

Not every cloaked ship is afk there's a lot of explorers visiting null and wh space. Botters get what they deserve and are worse than carebears who at least understand risk, even if they don't take any. At least they don't forum whine...


I have counted numerous AFK cloakers throughout the systems.


We are asking for a way to chase you around. Let you make the mistake in that nice bomber you got there. Take away the fact your cloaked and your just another carebear screaming for a change again to make you over the top like it is now.

Combat with Cloaks is one-sided. One-sided means unbalanced. Now give me a way to chase you around the system and cause you to make a mistake, now were even.

But you guys do not want to be chased. You guys do not want to found. You want to be invincible while cloaked so you can take the phone call or not worry about your ship.

Where is your risk at? It's not there no matter how you spin it.

I want a way to find you. If your not afk then your active and no worries. If your not, then you die like the botters do.
Tecate
Special Tactics Force Unit Gits
#62 - 2013-06-23 23:49:41 UTC
Balthazar Lestrane wrote:


If you find yourself in a fair fight in EVE, you're doing it wrong. And what is stopping you from jumping 1 system over to get away from the AFK cloaker? Do you even fly internet spaceships?



Your forgetting the other AFK cloakers that span the other systems around you. Do not forget them!
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#63 - 2013-06-23 23:57:47 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Cloaking is fine and working as intended, what's broken is the nature of mining and the null bears that run mining bots, all of these afk cloaking threads are an attempt by botters to keep their incomes intact. There's nothing worse than coming home from a hard days work to find that all of your mining bots have docked up because a single guy showed up in system and stayed there. Think of the lost iskies.

Not every cloaked ship is afk there's a lot of explorers visiting null and wh space. Botters get what they deserve and are worse than carebears who at least understand risk, even if they don't take any. At least they don't forum whine...


So you're saying that a 3 month old character, sitting cloaked in a system for several days is just "exploring"?

I am sorry but I don't agree. Again I will state. My idea has nothing to do with ACTIVE cloak pilots.

AFK mining is also an issue in both high and low sec. I know my corp doesn't allow it and if you get caught doing it or lose a ship cause you were AFK. Well that's too bad.


He might be gathering intel or watching your ship movements, area denial is a legitimate military strategy, if you choose to dock up he's denying you access to local resources. Thing is though if you didn't know he was there you would carry on with your business and the cloaking pilot wouldn't be able to do a thing about it as clokers tend to be very weak ships, not every cloaker carries a cyno and your chances of getting hot dropped are actually quite slim.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#64 - 2013-06-24 00:10:26 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:

There is no defense force that can counter this. It's a flaw in the game mechanics. He can sit there all day long and do nothing but he leaves the threat of an attack open at any given time. I understand this tactic and it is fine but it has no counter at all. I cant go out and hunt down this player,


As have no counter at all when you jump in a bubled gatecamp. As there's no way to chase someone docked in station or behind a POS shield. As there's no way to counter the local and intell channels yelling your presence in a system to a whole region...

With the current mechanics is a joke to secure and lock null sec systems. Cloacking, AFK cloackin, guerrilla and hot drops are the only real thrat element for these areas. And often the only viable tactic for smaller groups to do something against larger ones.

Any attempt to ner or limit cloacking (AFK or not), covert ops, cynos and hotdrops equals to make these areas 100% safe for PVE and farming. Would simply REMOVE the few chances of unpredictable interaction and PvP in these areas; not adding anything.

Anyone with a view for the general EVE gameplay and not only for his own small business is suposed to see and evaluate this.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#65 - 2013-06-24 00:12:54 UTC
Tecate it seems to me you have a problem with stealth boats in general, not just afk cloakers. Am i correct?
Tecate
Special Tactics Force Unit Gits
#66 - 2013-06-24 00:18:28 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:

As have no counter at all when you jump in a bubled gatecamp. As there's no way to chase someone docked in station or behind a POS shield. As there's no way to counter the local and intell channels yelling your presence in a system to a whole region...


Um T3 Cruisers is Nullified. They warp out of bubbles and are unaffected by Bubbles.

Sura Sadiva wrote:

With the current mechanics is a joke to secure and lock null sec systems. Cloacking, AFK cloackin, guerrilla and hot drops are the only real thrat element for these areas. And often the only viable tactic for smaller groups to do something against larger ones.

Any attempt to ner or limit cloacking (AFK or not), covert ops, cynos and hotdrops equals to make these areas 100% safe for PVE and farming. Would simply REMOVE the few chances of unpredictable interaction and PvP in these areas; not adding anything.

Anyone with a view for the general EVE gameplay and not only for his own small business is suposed to see and evaluate this.


Um nope you are incorrect here.

Scenerio is Cloaker comes into the system. Does nothing and just sits. Nothing can be done about this person.

Now give me something to chase these people and guess what you got. It's called a fight and PVP. You can run, warp and leave. But you have to choose to either fight or run. So nothing is 100% safe including the cloaker.

If you are actively running around then you would have nothing to worry about. If you stand still, you get dead.
Tecate
Special Tactics Force Unit Gits
#67 - 2013-06-24 00:20:01 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:
Tecate it seems to me you have a problem with stealth boats in general, not just afk cloakers. Am i correct?


No your not correct.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#68 - 2013-06-24 00:24:19 UTC
I hear claims that you want this nerf to promote PvP.

An interesting perspective. At no point do you suggest any change that allows the awful cloaking pilots a legitimate chance to actually catch the PvE targets they came after in the first place.

Nope, they keep their perfect and flawless defense.

But the cloaking pilots, who had forced stalemate conditions? Well, they must accept the bait and switch PvP or leave.

Yes, your solution will promote all sorts of changes, no doubt.

And not knowing the cyno drops immediately when the cyno ship pops, you seem to not have popped any before your suggestion.
Log into the test server and see it for yourself before posting false information about cynos lasting after ship destruction.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-06-24 00:24:31 UTC
Sura Sadiva

I havent suggested any change to the cloak at all. All I am suggesting is a new ship that can hunt down stealth ships.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-06-24 00:37:00 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
I hear claims that you want this nerf to promote PvP.

An interesting perspective. At no point do you suggest any change that allows the awful cloaking pilots a legitimate chance to actually catch the PvE targets they came after in the first place.

Nope, they keep their perfect and flawless defense.

But the cloaking pilots, who had forced stalemate conditions? Well, they must accept the bait and switch PvP or leave.

Yes, your solution will promote all sorts of changes, no doubt.

And not knowing the cyno drops immediately when the cyno ship pops, you seem to not have popped any before your suggestion.
Log into the test server and see it for yourself before posting false information about cynos lasting after ship destruction.



Yes I did make that mistake about the cyno.
I also stated that I was primarily an industrial player with limited PVP experience.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that I have said several times that this idea would truly only be effective against AFK ships. The scout ship would help locate stealth ships but only with enough time. An active pilot could easily get around this ship.

Look this is an idea. What suggestions would have to help in the area of finding PVE players. If its the removal of local, I have already suggested an idea of removing black ops ships from local, in exchange for the scout ship.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#71 - 2013-06-24 01:01:25 UTC
Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.

An AFK cloaker cannot move, cannot shoot, cannot light cynos and cannot hurt you in any way. All it can do is sit there and destroy the reliability of local, conducting psychological PvP against you which by the tone of this thread it seems to be winning. In what way is an AFK ship a threat?

No, seriously - in what way are you threatened by and in danger from a ship that is both cloaked and AFK?


"Nerf AFK cloaking so I can have perfect safety at all times" threads are very common here in Features & Ideas. The least you could have done before trying to shove another one down our throats is used the search button.



That being said, if you really feel threatened by a player who's not even at their keyboard or if you feel like you cannot conduct your day-to-day business in nullsec without having perfect safety at all times, perhaps the problem here is not AFK cloaking but rather you.

Let me say that again in a shorter sort of way. You are operating out of nullsec. Nullsec is supposed to be the most dangerous space in the entire game. Currently, nullsec is vastly safer than highsec. If you honestly and truly feel that nullsec is still not safe enough and needs to be made even safer than it already is then YOU are the problem that needs to be removed from nullsec, not people trying to counterbalance a broken and flawed intel-gathering mechanic.

A rookie ship with a cyno - in fact, any ship with a cyno - is not going to put up that cyno without warping to a target. Nobody in their right mind would bring a fleet of capitals/supercaps into a system far away from targets. The fleet would cause a spike in All-Seeing Local, giving the inhabitants time to dock up or POS up or leave outright. Even the mind-rippingly terrifying Covert Cyno that seems to distort nullbear faces into demented screams of fright is not immune to causing a spike in Local.

For this reason, putting up a cyno near your target is vital - in fact, it's basically required. Furthermore, a ship cannot put up that cyno without decloaking first. Above all, it requires you to be ATK. None of this can be done AFK.

I guarantee that an AFK ship will never ever ever light a cyno.


Threats exist. Some people want to come around and shoot you in the face. You say you want more PVP and so you're okay with that. Some people want to come around and just mess with your head. You scream very loudly that you are not okay with this. These are both examples of PVP. You do not get to say "I'm okay with this type of PvP but CCP shouldn't allow this other type." Before you say "AFK cloaking has no counter", it does. Since I'm feeling reasonably generous, I'll tell you the secret to countering the AFK cloaker.

Ignore it.


That's it, that's all, there's nothing more complicated to it than that. The easiest counter-tactic in the game and it doesn't even involve Lv5 skills (except maybe some that aren't actually ingame ones) or expensiv modules. If a neutral is in your system you should be looking for probes on your overview or aligning out, continuing to do what you're doing but prepared to leave at any time. However, since this is too hard and too dangerous and too unreasonable for you..

Get out of nullsec and leave it to the people who can handle risk. You don't deserve to live there.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-06-24 01:17:52 UTC
"Ignore it" That's your solution to this?

Yes that's a wise decision.

You know pointing out that there is a thread that is nothing but a collection of threads on this topic illustrates the fact that maybe the issue should be addressed.

I never once said I wanted to live in a safe system. I actually purposed an idea that is HIGH RISK. I am not asking to be some carebear behind a wall of security. No, what I want is a way to combat certain behaviors in the game, such as AFK cloaky camping. You say its just another form of PVP. Great. I wanna be part of this PVP. Let me fight back. Ignoring it is not the answer.

You confuse my suggestion for a change as a plea for help or whining. No. If CCP never changes the mechanic of how this works, it wont bother me in one way or another. However, I have offered an idea that seems to be a fairly legit one. Several people have said "OMG NO THIS WONT WORK STOP CRYING...." but few have offered any suggestions.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#73 - 2013-06-24 01:20:56 UTC
Few suggestions on how to "fix" AFK cloaking have been offered because it's not broken and so there's nothing to fix. Local and it's instant intel are what's broken. Notice how very few (if any) people come around from wormholes complaining about AFK cloakers.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-06-24 01:36:03 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Few suggestions on how to "fix" AFK cloaking have been offered because it's not broken and so there's nothing to fix. Local and it's instant intel are what's broken. Notice how very few (if any) people come around from wormholes complaining about AFK cloakers.


WH's are a different issue.

As for local. I would say that if local didn't exist something else would take its place. Nothing overall would change.

But let's consider local for a minute. If local was removed, how do you purpose that you find anyone in system. I would guess you would have to scan them down or cruise the belts/sites. So you are saying that you want to be in a cloaked ship, with no local, and be able to prey on other ships, without any risk, but my suggestion is giving too much security to the carebears. I dont agree here.

I have offered the idea of having the scout ship, in exchange for removing black ops ships from local.

Balthazar Lestrane
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#75 - 2013-06-24 02:02:15 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:
Balthazar Lestrane wrote:
Quote:

It's shear ignorance to think this is fun or even fair game play.


If you find yourself in a fair fight in EVE, you're doing it wrong. And what is stopping you from jumping 1 system over to get away from the AFK cloaker? Do you even fly internet spaceships?



LOL yes it's easy to just move but that doesn't solve the actual problem. Sadly you are right.


I don't really see AFK cloaking as being a problem. Yes, it's harassment. So is leaving unboarded ships inside POS shields (which makes for some of the worst blueballs when hunting). Should that go away as well?
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-06-24 02:08:42 UTC
LOL leaving unmanned ships in a POS is a *****. I personally think its a poor idea to do it.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#77 - 2013-06-24 07:49:29 UTC
Another whine about cloaks thread. LOL.

There's no issue with cloaking (afk or otherwise) currently. Other than the fact that a cloaked player represents an unknown level of threat.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#78 - 2013-06-24 07:59:01 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:
I think you're also missing the point. My idea is not to stop cloaking, but it is to stop the idea of cloak AFK camping in systems. I dont care about active cloaked ships, those dont bother me. What bothers me is the 3 month old character, sitting afk in a system with a rookie ship, a cyno and a cloak.

If you think cloak AFK camping of a system is a good idea then that's a different issue.


Shahfluffers.

No I am not. This ship would have a very difficult time locating an active cloaked ship. It would be useless as a point runner cause it would need probes in space, time to warp to a location, time to manually locate its target and then attack.


Ok, a few questions.
How do you know he's AFK? He might be sitting at the keyboard, talking in chat channels, voice comms, etc?

Why does it bother you?

Do you not understand how your idea would also cripple active cloaked players? There have been numerous times where I've sat at a particular position cloaked (active - just not moving about) in wormholes and nullsec. Whether it's merely for observation purposes, or waiting in a specific tactical location while things are getting set up, or waiting for the right moment to strike. Your idea totally destroys these abilities, all because... why?

Because you can't stand the fact that a cloaked player represents an unknown level of threat. He may be none (afk), a small threat (solo hunter) or a large threat (has a cyno and buddies ready to hot drop). You cannot deal with the fact you do not know what he is, and want the ability to remove this uncertainty - at any cost to game balance
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#79 - 2013-06-24 08:32:46 UTC
Congratulations! Being afraid of an AFK player has elevated you to the pinnacle of wussiness. You are cream of the crop coward, the ultimate jellyfish.

1. Grow a pair
2. Use the manly powers of a ballsack for courage
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-06-24 08:49:39 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:
Johan Toralen wrote:
So i get decloaked and killed while i walk the dog, take a crap or have a cigarette break? No thanks.


Log off, dock up, but if you are AFK you run the risk of being blown up. It happens in EVERY SHIP. Get over it. Stop using a cloak as a crutch


By the same logic if you afk in a station or tower you should also be ejected into space and get blown up.

...