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New dev blog: Starbase happy fun time

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Mary Mercer
Doomheim
#621 - 2011-11-08 03:18:08 UTC
TorTorden wrote:
Mary Mercer wrote:


Oh my goodness are you kidding me? The large POS is not intended to be a one man operation. While I realize it could be up to this point I highly disagree with the mind set that it was made to be run by one character.


You obviously havent been working a lot with pos's, no matter how large you are 99% of the time the pos networks gets dumped on one poor bastards head.


Fueling it does. but not funding that fuel. There is nothing here that affects that fact.
Sara Nomiya
The Failed and Forgotten
Exxitium
#622 - 2011-11-08 03:18:15 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:


Investments always go up in value amirite


Not always hehe
Current real world economics will show that sometimes the value of what you invest can disappear overnight ... and that makes everyone really happy Roll

Faction tower investments are like box seats brought early for a season of ya favourite sport.
Sure they may be a bit more expensive tho ur happy to pay that cause you don't have to squeeze your way thru the huge crowd to get to your more comfy sheltered seat.
Imagine paying for those seats then someone took the box away and swapped the seats for normal plastic ones Evil ?!
Zircon Dasher
#623 - 2011-11-08 03:19:07 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:
Icarus Helia wrote:

just because your favorite isk source is getting very slightly nerfed doesn't mean it is the end of the world. people will still need robotics in probably the same amounts because the vast majority permanent of towers are large


No offense dude, but you don't know what you're talking about. This last change is the one that impacts new players the least. The COs change is really the one that does them in..


In his defense you listed 3 "attacks" on noobs. Only the 3rd (last) had anything to do with POS and fuel pellets directly.

Since this thread is about POS and fuel pellets, maybe you should have made your first forum post in a thread about CO changes?

Your new to forums so its understandable you got lost.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
sukee tsayah
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#624 - 2011-11-08 03:20:37 UTC
Mary Mercer wrote:
Try getting some indi pilots in your corp and protect them rather than blowing them up. They would probably happily pull ores and build your BC's and BS's for you at a far reduced rate if you have any clue what you're when it comes to keeping them safe.

Not to mention, a mining op makes good bait for pvpers. That is if you can find a big enough fleet of them without ADHD to actually protect the fleet. most of them can't sit in the same system or on the same gate for more than 3 or 4 minutes.


This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're telling a new player to change the way they play or quit the game. Trust me, CCP does not win very often in that game of chicken.
Mary Mercer
Doomheim
#625 - 2011-11-08 03:20:39 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:


TLDR:

This expansion hurts children

CCP- Think of the children!


I don't troll forums enough to know what TLDR means, but if you mean "this expansion hurts new players" then yes, yes it does. That's the whole point of my post.

Honestly, all you experienced and old players have no reason to hate this expansion. I get it. Your POSs are now cheaper to fuel. duh! I wouldn't expect you to hate it. Again, it's the new guys that are the ones that are hurt. Not you.



Hey... Teach them to build fuel blocks... Eh? How about that? :)
TorTorden
Tors shibari party
#626 - 2011-11-08 03:21:00 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:


TLDR:

This expansion hurts children

CCP- Think of the children!


I don't troll forums enough to know what TLDR means, but if you mean "this expansion hurts new players" then yes, yes it does. That's the whole point of my post.

Honestly, all you experienced and old players have no reason to hate this expansion. I get it. Your POSs are now cheaper to fuel. duh! I wouldn't expect you to hate it. Again, it's the new guys that are the ones that are hurt. Not you.


I googled it once, It's a short hand for Too Long Did Not Read Blink
sukee tsayah
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#627 - 2011-11-08 03:22:53 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
sukee tsayah wrote:
Icarus Helia wrote:

just because your favorite isk source is getting very slightly nerfed doesn't mean it is the end of the world. people will still need robotics in probably the same amounts because the vast majority permanent of towers are large


No offense dude, but you don't know what you're talking about. This last change is the one that impacts new players the least. The COs change is really the one that does them in..


In his defense you listed 3 "attacks" on noobs. Only the 3rd (last) had anything to do with POS and fuel pellets directly.

Since this thread is about POS and fuel pellets, maybe you should have made your first forum post in a thread about CO changes?

Your new to forums so its understandable you got lost.


Did you miss the rest of my post when I referenced the fact that 3 instances of something usually constitutes a TREND? Do you disagree that all 3 of the changes I listed directly impact a new player's ability to make isk through producing POS fuel?
Mary Mercer
Doomheim
#628 - 2011-11-08 03:23:07 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:
Mary Mercer wrote:
Try getting some indi pilots in your corp and protect them rather than blowing them up. They would probably happily pull ores and build your BC's and BS's for you at a far reduced rate if you have any clue what you're when it comes to keeping them safe.

Not to mention, a mining op makes good bait for pvpers. That is if you can find a big enough fleet of them without ADHD to actually protect the fleet. most of them can't sit in the same system or on the same gate for more than 3 or 4 minutes.


This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're telling a new player to change the way they play or quit the game. Trust me, CCP does not win very often in that game of chicken.


My bad, you're right. Lets alter the game for each individual new and old player. It makes much more sense to adapt the game to each player than the to adapt the players to the game.

You must be American.

^^^ You can take that any way you like Lol
sukee tsayah
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#629 - 2011-11-08 03:24:07 UTC
TorTorden wrote:

I googled it once, It's a short hand for Too Long Did Not Read Blink


Haha, fair enough. I can't disagree with that :)
Evanda Char
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#630 - 2011-11-08 03:26:52 UTC
Icarus Helia wrote:
Evanda Char wrote:
Entity wrote:
Evanda Char wrote:
I must be missing something. There seems to be a slight adjustment in the amount of materials, but an extra step in producing the fuel which tends to mean more hauling. And without the faction tower fuel reduction, and the ability to drop fuel consumption by leaving grid/cpu unused, that means even more hauling... The maths is simpler once you've got the blocks but I have a tool for that.

What am I not seeing that has everyone happy?


The fact you can be lazy now and have people that actually want to bother producing the fuel bother with that while you just buy the cubes off the market, I guess?


And if I don't want to be lazy I get to play "fun with the build queues I built my tower to get past in the first place"...?


the new onlining times aren't bad and it takes only a day to make fuel for 1 tower. if it costs you more - charge more.

for anyone with more than one or two towers this new system will be a godsend. As I've said before - don't pee in the cheerios just because you don't like them.

I have to fuel a tower in W-space which will be arguably more difficult than any highsec pos to fuel with this new system, and cant fathom how people are panicking this badly. the only fix is maybe separate LO/HW and proper fuel bonus for faction towers


I'm neither panicking nor urinating in anything, just giving my feedback: the extra day's production time in the fuelling process, the extra amount in fuel cost and most particularly the extra hauling are not filling me with joy.
sukee tsayah
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#631 - 2011-11-08 03:28:30 UTC
Mary Mercer wrote:

My bad, you're right. Lets alter the game for each individual new and old player. It makes much more sense to adapt the game to each player than the to adapt the players to the game.

You must be American.

^^^ You can take that any way you like Lol


I guess you missed my point. I'm not asking CCP to change anything. Actually I'm asking them to stop meddling so much with the market. Supply and Demand rules takes care of the market.

You must not be a free market "laissez faire" capitalist.

^^^ You can take that any way you like Lol
sukee tsayah
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#632 - 2011-11-08 03:29:41 UTC
Mary Mercer wrote:
sukee tsayah wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:


TLDR:

This expansion hurts children

CCP- Think of the children!


I don't troll forums enough to know what TLDR means, but if you mean "this expansion hurts new players" then yes, yes it does. That's the whole point of my post.

Honestly, all you experienced and old players have no reason to hate this expansion. I get it. Your POSs are now cheaper to fuel. duh! I wouldn't expect you to hate it. Again, it's the new guys that are the ones that are hurt. Not you.



Hey... Teach them to build fuel blocks... Eh? How about that? :)


If I tell them that, they'll quit. It's like telling them: "go rat in high sec for 6 hours a day"

same result.
Icarus Helia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#633 - 2011-11-08 03:29:45 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:
Icarus Helia wrote:

just because your favorite isk source is getting very slightly nerfed doesn't mean it is the end of the world. people will still need robotics in probably the same amounts because the vast majority permanent of towers are large


No offense dude, but you don't know what you're talking about. This last change is the one that impacts new players the least. The COs change is really the one that does them in. I didn't comment before because it was just one or two instances of this. Now it's becoming a trend.

Oh and cmon, PI makes up maybe 5% of my income. I'm thinking of the new players that I train on a daily basis. You obviously forget what it was like when you were new to the game.


the customs office change - ok fine, I forgot about that - but realistically, that will stabilize and frankly the corp should be providing CO's too...

I also wouldn't expect them to be any more fragile than a POS, and certainly less interesting as a target to anyone who hasnt already ousted you anyway, so unless you plan to rip off your noobs i wouldn't worry too much about it after the initial setup.

Why you no care?
TorTorden
Tors shibari party
#634 - 2011-11-08 03:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: TorTorden
sukee tsayah wrote:


I guess you missed my point. I'm not asking CCP to change anything. Actually I'm asking them to stop meddling so much with the market. Supply and Demand rules takes care of the market.

You must not be a free market "laissez faire" capitalist.

^^^ You can take that any way you like Lol



I think "Not too meddle with the market" has been one of the reasons so many things have been left broken for 6 years.
Mary Mercer
Doomheim
#635 - 2011-11-08 03:31:59 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:
Mary Mercer wrote:



Hey... Teach them to build fuel blocks... Eh? How about that? :)


If I tell them that, they'll quit. It's like telling them: "go rat in high sec for 6 hours a day"

same result.


*shrug. One less pirate to worry about it sounds like to me.
sukee tsayah
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#636 - 2011-11-08 03:34:41 UTC
TorTorden wrote:
sukee tsayah wrote:


I guess you missed my point. I'm not asking CCP to change anything. Actually I'm asking them to stop meddling so much with the market. Supply and Demand rules takes care of the market.

You must not be a free market "laissez faire" capitalist.

^^^ You can take that any way you like Lol



I think "Not too meddle with the market" has been one of the reasons so many things have been left broken for 6 years.


Spoken like a true "Big Brother".

How does making POS cheaper to fuel help everyone? It doesn't. It only helps the old, rich, experienced players. No one else.

And it directly hurts the new players.
sukee tsayah
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#637 - 2011-11-08 03:35:51 UTC
Mary Mercer wrote:
sukee tsayah wrote:
Mary Mercer wrote:



Hey... Teach them to build fuel blocks... Eh? How about that? :)


If I tell them that, they'll quit. It's like telling them: "go rat in high sec for 6 hours a day"

same result.


*shrug. One less pirate to worry about it sounds like to me.


Yeah good luck with that strategy.

No game has ever survived by bleeding new subscriptions. Prove me wrong.
Icarus Helia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#638 - 2011-11-08 03:39:39 UTC
Evanda Char wrote:
Icarus Helia wrote:
Evanda Char wrote:
Entity wrote:
Evanda Char wrote:
I must be missing something. There seems to be a slight adjustment in the amount of materials, but an extra step in producing the fuel which tends to mean more hauling. And without the faction tower fuel reduction, and the ability to drop fuel consumption by leaving grid/cpu unused, that means even more hauling... The maths is simpler once you've got the blocks but I have a tool for that.

What am I not seeing that has everyone happy?


The fact you can be lazy now and have people that actually want to bother producing the fuel bother with that while you just buy the cubes off the market, I guess?


And if I don't want to be lazy I get to play "fun with the build queues I built my tower to get past in the first place"...?


the new onlining times aren't bad and it takes only a day to make fuel for 1 tower. if it costs you more - charge more.

for anyone with more than one or two towers this new system will be a godsend. As I've said before - don't pee in the cheerios just because you don't like them.

I have to fuel a tower in W-space which will be arguably more difficult than any highsec pos to fuel with this new system, and cant fathom how people are panicking this badly. the only fix is maybe separate LO/HW and proper fuel bonus for faction towers


I'm neither panicking nor urinating in anything, just giving my feedback: the extra day's production time in the fuelling process, the extra amount in fuel cost and most particularly the extra hauling are not filling me with joy.


I will admit that the extra day you have to run a low requirement module that can now be online and offlined in seconds may add some hassle to your lifestyle, but truthfully the entire process isn't any different in terms of isk, if anything it is a little cheaper. extra cost comes to you if you are willing to pay for the convenience of buying prefab pos fuel pellets, otherwise you will continue as previously. extra hauling shouldn't really be necessary, but in the interest of covering all bases - perhaps reducing the pellet size to a more average m3/hour at current levels ratio would quell the uprising? is it fair to assume that maybe 75% of the power and CPU available on any given tower are used, in terms of their fuel cost? take that average m3/hour fuel cost and translate that to the appropriate number of blocks, maybe a little smaller to compensate for the added raw material volume, however minimal it may be.

Why you no care?
Mary Mercer
Doomheim
#639 - 2011-11-08 03:40:17 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:
Mary Mercer wrote:
sukee tsayah wrote:
Mary Mercer wrote:



Hey... Teach them to build fuel blocks... Eh? How about that? :)


If I tell them that, they'll quit. It's like telling them: "go rat in high sec for 6 hours a day"

same result.


*shrug. One less pirate to worry about it sounds like to me.


Yeah good luck with that strategy.

No game has ever survived by bleeding new subscriptions. Prove me wrong.


You don't need to please 12 million people and turn into the next WoW. Look at Everquest. The game was as much a time sink as Eve is and it's still being played today like 15 years after release or some crazy thing like that.

I'm happy to see some of this crap getting fixed finally and if they can make a new industry (Fuel block production) in the process, I say that is even better.
sukee tsayah
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#640 - 2011-11-08 03:44:27 UTC
Mary Mercer wrote:
sukee tsayah wrote:
Mary Mercer wrote:
sukee tsayah wrote:
Mary Mercer wrote:



Hey... Teach them to build fuel blocks... Eh? How about that? :)


If I tell them that, they'll quit. It's like telling them: "go rat in high sec for 6 hours a day"

same result.


*shrug. One less pirate to worry about it sounds like to me.


Yeah good luck with that strategy.

No game has ever survived by bleeding new subscriptions. Prove me wrong.


You don't need to please 12 million people and turn into the next WoW. Look at Everquest. The game was as much a time sink as Eve is and it's still being played today like 15 years after release or some crazy thing like that.

I'm happy to see some of this crap getting fixed finally and if they can make a new industry (Fuel block production) in the process, I say that is even better.


That's fine. But there's no reason that POS's fueled with fuel blocks should cost less to run than they did before. This is a backdoor tax on all new players who rely on PI to make a decent living.

And yes, you don't need to please 12 million people, but you do need to keep the experience of new players in mind when applying changes like this. Especially the ones that are most likely to become long term subscribers.