Player Features and Ideas Discussion

^also this, simple, the rebalance should've been similar to that of the barges, leaving one industrial with big cargo for high sec and for those who want to risk some money, and the other as cheap versions of the T2 industrials. i mean, T1 versions of the Deep Space Transports and the Blockade Runners, while the other would be a simple industrial with bigger hold than the others but which couldnt survive in low sec or null without proper modifications.

Very glad the mammoth is back to the biggest.

I still don't like the reliance on cargo expanders and cargo rigs, though. All T1 industrials should be given a flat bulk cargo storage bay that can store anything, in the same manner the mining barges were given ore bays. They should have a small, frigate sized cargo bay used for ammo, cap boosters, repair paste, or whatever other crazy things consumables you might need on an indy. This also leaves room for the tanky industrials to fit either shield or armor. As it stands, if you don't shield tank your industrial, you have no cargo space or no tank, meaning we've got 4 fast shield tanking industrials and 4 bulk shield tanking industrials.

Start the speedy ones off at 16000m3 and the cargo at 33000m3 and give them all +1000m3 of space per level. The mid ground ships (iterons 2-4 and hoarder) can be put between in size at around 22000m3 for now and when 2 new indies can be released make tanky industrials, keeping the cargo the same.

I was thinking about the Iteron 2 and 4, how about giving them no turret slots, a 1000m3 drone bay, and 10Mbit of bandwidth but otherwise having them exactly the same as the Iteron 1 and 3?

LONG LIVE THE MAMMOTH. Thank you for keeping it as the king Matari hauler.

The bolded part is all you really had to say. Pretty much everyone in this thread was concerned that you were broad stroking this overhaul and flying off into the night, never to touch industry ships again.

If you can keep racial flavor and even out the number of ships on offer for each race, you'll be worlds ahead. I know that will require assets which you're loathe to give up, but haulers are important to the people that haul. Which is a not insignificant portion of your players. Things have to get places, or the economy of EvE would collapse. As you've seen with the reaction over the Mammoth, players have strong feelings about what they haul in, just as they do about what they fight in.

Special bays should not be racial. Special bays should be by ship type. The Amarr Ice Miner should have an Amarr ship at his disposal with an ore/ice hold, and so should the rest of the races. The racial concerns should be something along the lines of: Amarr with the brickiest armor, Minmatar with the agilest hull, Gallente with the biggest bays, Caldari with the thickest shields. Each should then have a small fast hauler for general goods, a medium more defensible hauler that can move specialized products like ice and ore, and a big but slow hauler with the best defenses and biggest capacity. Three ships for everyone is a smaller asset investment (two new models) than what should really happen: a whole new lineup of industrials that cover a broader range of activities.

Something to bridge the capacity (and cost) gap between industrials and freighters. A smaller mobile fitting/ammo station for gangs of frigates and destroyers. Truly specialized haulers for every broad category of goods (ice/ore/gas/PI/charges/fuel/etc). Small salvage ships, tractor beam bonuses all over the place, survey scanner bonuses, bonuses to nabbing cans in archaeology sites, etc, etc. These could or should probably all be ORE variants. But let's be clear here: there's more to industry than align time and cargo capacity. It should be explored. I hope that's the 'industry work' you're hinting at.

Despite such a ship being needed, this is tiericide for existing tech 1 ships in a point release. New hulls seem to be a Spring/Winter 1.0 thing.

Badger gets turret AND launcher??? NERF THE BADGER

Delay it until when? Until the art team has enough time to built 2 (or 8) new ships? There's enough space to work with here to put in reasonable upgrades to these ships. The same way they battleships have been done, but we're missing 3 disruption battleships and a caldari combat battleship.

There is no shoving here, this is a fairly deliberate process that's been followed. It is a bit rough at the moment, in my opinion, but that's the point of the forum thread. To refine it. Nobody is arguing the numbers (except a few Iteron V fans) we're arguing diversity and functionality. If the basis of the industrial diversity and functionality is defined, it can make the difference between "we'd like two new industrial ships so we can rebalance the line" and "this is the ship we need to get out as soon as possible, when can you have that model done?".

Somewhat of a different topic, but I'd kinda prefer to leave the industrials as haulers and split up the orca into several slightly cheaper ships:

- A specialist mining support vessel, the kind that sits in a belt with mining links
- A specialist fleet support vessel, one that can roam with a group with combat links and fitting service
- A industrial carrier that can has a significant fleet hangar and can move a bunch of fitted battleships (2.5M m3 or so)

We don't trust no filthy PL scum!

Nah, JK.
Keep up the good work, the community is really looking forward to the T" re-balance.

How did this get to 20 pages ?!

Well done CCP on these changes though!

one thing is having diversity of roles and other is diversity due to race, that's the difference, each empire should have ships with the same roles as the others, and each empire ships would have their own racial traits, be it amarr having the more tankier, gallente the most cargoed, minmatar the fastest and caldari de better equiped in terms of slots. this can be done, but we must have same roles in every empire, that is ships with good armor, other with good speed and another with good cargo. but with the racial traits added to that.

the industrial line is broken cause two empires use only 2 ships, while another one use 5 ships. the only race that seems balanced in terms of industrial ships is the Minmatar Republic, the other races need to be reorganized, specially if we have T2 versions with what could've been the aditional roles. that's the problem, we have to give the same roles the T2 have to the T1 line, at least in this case.

just look at exhumers and barges, its the same.