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New dev blog: Starbase happy fun time

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Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#421 - 2011-11-07 20:32:07 UTC
svensmokavich wrote:
WOW i cant beleave that everyone is excited about this.besides the fact that ccp is gonna put another hand in our pockets sort of speek when it comes to pos fuel,why do we need another thing to manifacture?like we dont already have enough to build.in the long run this will drive up fuel prices due to a middle man manifactureing ur blocks,or if u want to do it urself lets waste some manifactureing slots on already needed toons to do stuff that really dosnt make alot of sence,ya it will make fueling ur pos easier but is gonna cost us more[like fueling these damn towers isnt expensive enough]theres no way u can intruduce a middle man into the process and not have the prices go up,ccp dosnt control the market,we do. i really wish ccp would stop trying to change stuff to so called make stuff easier and fix the *&^$%$ problems that we already have with the game.if they spent 1% of the effort into fixing some of the smaller issues ingame instead of tryin to radicaly change what is already there they wouldnt be loseing there 5 year older players to this kind of bs.tx for twisting the knife one more time ccpEvil



I have no idea what this guy is saying, but he sounds mad.
Zio Yamamoto
Frog Morton Industries
#422 - 2011-11-07 20:33:02 UTC
SERIOUSLY !!!
Can you stop ******* things up ? Can you stop fixing things that isnt broken ? Can you stop playing WOW and put your head into this game for atleast half an hour every day ? And stop talking to silly buggers about what changes to implement ?

Heavy water prices has gone from 20 isk/unit to 260 isk/unit since you put up this post. And faction towers are already dropping in price. Do you at all think about what you are doing with this mad market manipulations ? If you are from Iceland you should know what happens when fishermen try to be bankers, (no disrespect to fishermen), and stop doing mindless silly things like this ?
I heard you had a economics guy working at CCP, why dont you run some numbers by him every once in a while before you do a monumentous stupid market mainpulation like this ? Or did the large scale guys that fooled you with the faction tower reasoning tell you it would be a good idea to blow another pos fuel bit into speculation ? It takes about 3 minutes of studying economics to find out that fuel prices is the basis of everything, and your messing hard with them.

There is ONE reason to use faction towers and that is running cost, it is a long term investment of about 16 months, that you just blew right out of the water. You could just as easily have blown up my towers and said oops sorry as make these changes here. It would had saved me the annoyance of having to look at them every second day.

I know I am repeating myself, but seriously, do you at all play this game ? Could you try to run a pos for any lenght of time before you make stupid changes to them ? And could you seriously get a bloody dictionary, english to whatever is your first language and look up the words Happy and Fun ?

But there is more, ohh yes. NRDS in 0 is now harder, because you cant allow neuts to use your jumpbridges, it will take 3.5 sec for someone to find out how to fit a noob alt with a MWD and use up all the fuel in them. So you have to set your towers to shoot at the neuts instead. Youll prolly get a payrise for that idea.

Yes bro, I am MAD. Could you please go away and let the grownups handle POSes, its like complicated with maths and shitz.
Jin Rich
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#423 - 2011-11-07 20:33:27 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
Jin Rich wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:

Yeah. they are great if you are in Highsec.

But I live in 0.0. There are times when you
Quote:
cant
ähm. shouldn't use them. (neuts in System and so on).

And yes. you can jump a JF from System A to System B. But i don't know what you are thinking about risking a 5 Bil. ISK ship for transporting Fuel from System A to B, well I hope you got the point...

use a rorq just like every other 0.0 alliance


Alliances. Nullsec. 5 B ISK.

What about us small corps of 1-2 players playing EVE causually and running POSses in lowsec, producing stuff for the markets for the benefit of all you others out there?! Fuel pellets will make it a bit easier on us, but there is currently no plan to reduce the really tediuous work; transporting POS fuel to lowsec.

"Use a rorq" or " buy a jump freighter" you say. Well, they are WAY to expensive for a small corp!

"Flying blockade runners through low sec makes for good targets for pirates/gankers etc - thats good for EVE, and have a nice day!". Nope. I have flown through soo many gate camps in low sec and they never catch a blockade runner anyway (cloaky, warp core stabbed etc).

So why then, has no one in this simulated future ultra-capitalistic world invented a ship to solve an obvious need on the market!?

Might I suggest to you CCP that you consider introduction of a "jump hauler", i.e. a Iteron hull ship with a jump drive that is affordable for small corps (like an Orca maybe?) but has reduced cargo capacity (20000 m3 maybe). Make it work in only lowsec, if it in some way otherwise could impact the "balance" in null (what do I care about nullsec anyway?). Make it easier to maintain POSes in lowsec, and let us spend more time with pewpew instead!

Fuel pellets are good, but it will not reduce the workload for low sec POS owners significantly. Jump haulers would!

Comments, anyone? CCP?



smart pos monkeys use the planets in their systems to make pos fuel... this negates the need for alot of hauling.


I'm talking about the ice-based POS-fuel. Of course I make the PI-based fuel locally. Small corp => no time to spend on ice-mining.
Echo Mande
#424 - 2011-11-07 20:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Echo Mande
A good dev blog overall, with good things presented.

As others have said, there's room for improvement with respect to keeping the faction tower and sov bonuses. IMO the simplest would be to increase the block batch size from 4 to 40 or 100 and drop the volume and increase the consumption rate by the same ratio to keep the materials/hour and volume/hour rates stable. That way you can reduce the block consumption rate for faction towers and sov bonus while still keeping more or less rounded numbers. The 1/2/4 block consumption rate looks good at first blush but is probably not granular enough.

The main advantage to the fuel use bonuses probably isn't the reduced fuel bill but the increased time between hauling loads of stuff out to the towers.

Also please make the blocks more easily recognizable by changing the blue tint to a faction tint.

Wallet remarks everywhere
Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
#425 - 2011-11-07 20:34:50 UTC
Quote:
The way we're strongly advising players to approach this handover is to fill your fuel bays with "half and half" - enough of the old fuel to last you to the changeover downtime and then some (I'd suggest 2-3 days extra just in case something horrible happens), and enough of the new fuel blocks to run the tower until you can fill it with 100% blocks. The server should then come back up after the update, see the new fuel and start consuming that like nothing had happened.
People will rage quit over this ...


... I LOVE IT Big smile
Stealthiest
Dutch Trading Outpost
#426 - 2011-11-07 20:35:33 UTC
About faction towers:

Wheh I was in Querious I ran a 70 pos chain and mining set up. Therefore I feel that I have something valid to contribute to this conversation.

I love all of it except the faction towers.

The part about people using faction towers as it is less time between fill ups is true. However what is being overlooked by the Dev that did this blog is that the reduction of fuel consumption lead to longer time between fueling. Not the increased size of the fuel bay. It meant that it cost less to fuel a tower for a period of time vs it's non-faction counterpart.

Increasing the fuel bay really doesn't do **** when you only fuel once every 24 days etc. It is the reduction in cost that made the faction tower attractive along with the hardening bonus's etc.

So if you cannot reduce fuel consumption it would be much better to increase the cpu and PG of faction towers to make them attractive again. Give tier 1 faction tower 25 percent increase in pg and cpu and give the tier 2 faction tower a 50 percent increase in pg and cpu.

If you only do the increased fuel bay then nothing will justify the cost of a faction tower and it will die a slow death like the Supercarriers will in a ferw weeks.

Just my 2 bits.
Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#427 - 2011-11-07 20:37:25 UTC
Zio Yamamoto wrote:
SERIOUSLY !!!
Can you stop ******* things up ? Can you stop fixing things that isnt broken ? Can you stop playing WOW and put your head into this game for atleast half an hour every day ? And stop talking to silly buggers about what changes to implement ?

Heavy water prices has gone from 20 isk/unit to 260 isk/unit since you put up this post. And faction towers are already dropping in price. Do you at all think about what you are doing with this mad market manipulations ? If you are from Iceland you should know what happens when fishermen try to be bankers, (no disrespect to fishermen), and stop doing mindless silly things like this ?
I heard you had a economics guy working at CCP, why dont you run some numbers by him every once in a while before you do a monumentous stupid market mainpulation like this ? Or did the large scale guys that fooled you with the faction tower reasoning tell you it would be a good idea to blow another pos fuel bit into speculation ? It takes about 3 minutes of studying economics to find out that fuel prices is the basis of everything, and your messing hard with them.

There is ONE reason to use faction towers and that is running cost, it is a long term investment of about 16 months, that you just blew right out of the water. You could just as easily have blown up my towers and said oops sorry as make these changes here. It would had saved me the annoyance of having to look at them every second day.

I know I am repeating myself, but seriously, do you at all play this game ? Could you try to run a pos for any lenght of time before you make stupid changes to them ? And could you seriously get a bloody dictionary, english to whatever is your first language and look up the words Happy and Fun ?

But there is more, ohh yes. NRDS in 0 is now harder, because you cant allow neuts to use your jumpbridges, it will take 3.5 sec for someone to find out how to fit a noob alt with a MWD and use up all the fuel in them. So you have to set your towers to shoot at the neuts instead. Youll prolly get a payrise for that idea.

Yes bro, I am MAD. Could you please go away and let the grownups handle POSes, its like complicated with maths and shitz.



Nothing was stopping you from jumping on board that gravy train. I just heavy watered my next Plex :toot:
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#428 - 2011-11-07 20:37:56 UTC
Jin Rich wrote:

Alliances. Nullsec. 5 B ISK.

a rorq isn't 5b isk numbnuts

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Thaylon Sen
The Boondock Saints
#429 - 2011-11-07 20:38:17 UTC
Awesome news... can you for the love of god racially colour the blocks for those of us with poor eye sight!
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#430 - 2011-11-07 20:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemon Ceed
Greyscale, instead of having the POS managers fill the bay with half of the old fuels and half of the fuel blocks, couldn't your DBA's just build a simple SQL routine to convert the quantities of fuel in the bays to the new fuel blocks? That way a POS manager could just top off the fuel bay with old fuels prior to downtime and not have to worry about it. It should be an easy job for the DBA. We do such things all the time at my work. It would also greatly reduce the hassle for the POS owner/manager. The SQL routine could be written to ignore POS's in highsec/lowsec that require charters.

I'm no expert at all on faction towers, but couldn't you also just maintain their bonuses by having them work like this:

If non-faction POS takes 30 blocks a month to fuel, a faction POS takes anywhere from 15-25 (depending on the bonus to fuel consumption that it gets). With that approach it won't seem as such a nerf-bat on the faction towers, the tower owners won't throw butthurt temper tantrums like the ones seen above, and it won't completely crash the market on faction towers.
Dex Ironmind
#431 - 2011-11-07 20:41:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dex Ironmind
The only people this is really "easier" for are those who simply buy their fuel directly off the market! Am I mistaken?

For everyone else, this actually adds a step to the refuel process, as well as some potential initial logistics (buying BP's and/or installing an ammo array if you don't have one). It doesn't sound like this requires any skills.

Am I missing something here?

EDIT: THE ABOVE WAS ANSWERED BELOW. PLEASE IGNORE. STILL WOULD LIKE THE FOLLOWING ANSWERED THOUGH.

I do have few questions though on the building process...

1) Will these blueprints be like typical manufacturing blueprints (i.e., ammo bpos, etc.)?

2) If so, assuming BPO's will be offered, can ME and PE be researched? If so, what will the bonuses for those be like? This is a huge consideration in my mind on many levels.

3) The blog says, "The four racial fuel blocks will be built in batches of four in all stations, plus starbase ammo assembly arrays (blueprints coming to a Thukker Mix station near you; build time approximately ten minutes)." Am i correct in assuming this means "ALL" stations, and building of these does not require a station with science and industry services (i.e., a factory)?

It doesn't sound like your typical manufacturing process, but just a "new" and "special" type of construction process.

Please provide some clarification on the building process??? OR please be kind if I am missing the obvious here. What?

Dex was here. Cool
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#432 - 2011-11-07 20:42:00 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Jin Rich wrote:

Alliances. Nullsec. 5 B ISK.

a rorq isn't 5b isk numbnuts

Yeah but a Jump Frighter is...

DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=706442#post706442 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#433 - 2011-11-07 20:46:00 UTC
Jin Rich wrote:
David Grogan wrote:


smart pos monkeys use the planets in their systems to make pos fuel... this negates the need for alot of hauling.


I'm talking about the ice-based POS-fuel. Of course I make the PI-based fuel locally. Small corp => no time to spend on ice-mining.



just place a buy order in the system nearest your pos. there is always traders that will move it there if the price is right.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Des Jardin
Aperture Harmonics
#434 - 2011-11-07 20:49:31 UTC
Proposed solution regarding faction towers:

Given that POS fuels are withdrawn from POSs once an hour and that withdrawals at other intervals are not practical, I suggest that faction towers skip a withdrawal cycle on a periodic basis. For example, have fuel withdrawn from a faction tower 3 out of 4 hours.

Hour 1:
Fuel removed from non-faction flagged POSs
Fuel removed from faction flagged POSs

Hour 2:
Fuel removed from non-faction flagged POSs
Fuel removed from faction flagged POSs

Hour 3:
Fuel removed from non-faction flagged POSs
Fuel removed from faction flagged POSs

Hour 4:
Fuel removed from non-faction flagged POSs

Hours 5-8:
Repeat Hours 1 - 4 cycle

Rinse and repeat.


"Good against remotes is one thing.  Good against the living ... that's something else."
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#435 - 2011-11-07 20:50:51 UTC
Dex Ironmind wrote:
The only people this is really "easier" for are those who simply buy their fuel directly off the market! Am I mistaken?

For everyone else, this actually adds a step to the refuel process, as well as some potential initial logistics (buying BP's and/or installing an ammo array if you don't have one). It doesn't sound like this requires any skills.


fueling a tower is shift-dragging your fuel stack onto the tower instead of laborously computing the precise number of eight different fuel types to get a tower max-fueled then moving those fuel types one at a time

if you have ever fueled a tower anywhere but in w-space this is a stupendous improvement

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Joan Avon
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#436 - 2011-11-07 20:51:45 UTC
Fantastic! Another simple easy change that along with the myriad of others being added for the winter expansion will create a symphony of improvement for Eve Online.

Let us begin....
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#437 - 2011-11-07 20:52:42 UTC
Des Jardin wrote:
Proposed solution regarding faction towers:

Given that POS fuels are withdrawn from POSs once an hour and that withdrawals at other intervals are not practical, I suggest that faction towers skip a withdrawal cycle on a periodic basis. For example, have fuel withdrawn from a faction tower 3 out of 4 hours.

Hour 1:
Fuel removed from non-faction flagged POSs
Fuel removed from faction flagged POSs

Hour 2:
Fuel removed from non-faction flagged POSs
Fuel removed from faction flagged POSs

Hour 3:
Fuel removed from non-faction flagged POSs
Fuel removed from faction flagged POSs

Hour 4:
Fuel removed from non-faction flagged POSs

Hours 5-8:
Repeat Hours 1 - 4 cycle

Rinse and repeat.




jesus christ why does everyone insist on proposing ways to reinvent the wheel with huge potential for introduction of new bugs rather than tweaks to the system that completely fix faction towers with no new code or downside

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Evelgrivion
State War Academy
Caldari State
#438 - 2011-11-07 20:52:54 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
fueling a tower is shift-dragging your fuel stack onto the tower instead of laborously computing the precise number of eight different fuel types to get a tower max-fueled then moving those fuel types one at a time

if you have ever fueled a tower anywhere but in w-space this is a stupendous improvement


I'd rather run the numbers for a faction tower and take my 25% reduction in fuel costs over a standard tower, honestly. I've only got one.
Dex Ironmind
#439 - 2011-11-07 20:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dex Ironmind
Weaselior wrote:
Dex Ironmind wrote:
The only people this is really "easier" for are those who simply buy their fuel directly off the market! Am I mistaken?

For everyone else, this actually adds a step to the refuel process, as well as some potential initial logistics (buying BP's and/or installing an ammo array if you don't have one). It doesn't sound like this requires any skills.


fueling a tower is shift-dragging your fuel stack onto the tower instead of laborously computing the precise number of eight different fuel types to get a tower max-fueled then moving those fuel types one at a time

if you have ever fueled a tower anywhere but in w-space this is a stupendous improvement


Fair answer ... thanks. Hadn't thought of it that way. I can get behind that.

Still would like to know about the details of the building process.

Dex was here. Cool
Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#440 - 2011-11-07 20:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Elzon1
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Currently thinking about:

  • Fuel divisibility situation (ie, faction/sov fuel bonuses)
  • Block build times


Keep on posting, we are paying attention :)


Can't you just change the fuel timer for sov fuel savings and faction towers?

Apollo Gabriel wrote:
HOLY **** CCP!!!

Thanks guys!!

As to Faction towers can you make their fuel cycle 1.5 hours or something to still give a fuel bonus? maybe 1 hr 10 mins?

I don't use them, but just thought I'd toss out the idea.

I love that CCP is removing UN-NEEDED COMPLEXITY!!

The game is getting richer, thanks!


EVE Online players... keeping it simple Big smile