Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Aw, chin up -- we're only bashing the parts of this plan we don't like because you got the basics right so you don't need our feedback there. Yes, each race should have a viable option to fill each primary role, and yes, selecting any given primary role should require some compromise in other attributes. You've gotten those basics right, and even a lot of your implementation of them is fine, it's just a few particulars we're all harping on and those are easy to fix.

But I still think you're limiting your balance options too much by trying to have only two primary roles in play. Cargo capacity and agility are obvious things that people might want to optimize in various circumstances, but your options widen exponentially with every variable you can add.

A lot of folks here have been going to tankiness as that third variable, but I think there's a valid argument that T1 industrials just can't ever be tanky enough for that to really matter much. Someone else suggested differentiating between agility (which makes active piloting faster) and speed (which makes autopiloting faster), but I'm not sure that's a big enough difference for many folks to care about either. Other folks have suggested specialized bays, so there'd be a fast ship, a big general-purpose ship (~40k like now), and an even bigger special-purpose ship (maybe ~100k ore or PI only).

(Edit: Another option, as also mentioned earlier in this thread, is to forbid cargo expanders on industrials and increase base cargo to compensate. That in turn frees you up to make mid/low slot count and armor HP a meaningful differentiator without screwing the cargo capacity balance.)

All of those options have some downsides but I think you've got to pick something. Two variables is just not enough to differentiate 8-12 ships.

My two cents,

------------------------|-----Amarr----------------Caldari------------Gallente------------Minmatar
Base Hauler.........|......Sigil....................Badger Mark I.......Iteron Mark I...........Wreathe.
Capacity Hauler..|..................................Badger Mark II......Iteron Mark V...........................
Speed Hauler......|................................................................Iteron Mark III............Hoarder.
Tank Hauler........|.....Bestower................New skin...............Iteron Mark IV.........Mammoth.
Fleet Hauler........|.....New skin..............................................Iteron Mark V............................

(ccp forum people, please insert BBcode tables)


• Base hauler: A very cheap solution to base hauling needs for many pilots. Low stats.
• Capacity hauler: Focused on optimized cargoholds, agility is average, all other stats below par or equal to base hauler.
• Speed hauler: Focused on optimized agility and (warp)speed, cargohold is average, all other stats below par or equal to base hauler.
• Tank hauler: Average cargohold (in between base hauler and capacity/speed haulers), good tank though (approx. 25k-30k ehp?), all other stats below par or equal to base hauler.
• Fleet hauler: Less than average cargohold, perhaps even specialized bays only (charges, fuel, stront, scripts, paste, drones?), but perfect for speedtanking (low sig radius, both viable in armor and shield fleets with decent tank slots) with above average ehp if active s/a hardener mods are running. Not viable as top of the notch (either one) capacity/speed/tank hauler. Only base stats that are buffed are: less mass (better able to speedtank, agile, also nice for wh-people), more pg/cpu, less sig radius (bonus/level?). +1/2 lowslots for the amarr version (with nerfed cargo to compensate or special bays) and +1/2 mids for the gallente version (focused on shield fleets, since some gallente boats are great hybrids anyway, and to keep the fifth iteron in use). If tackled, they are easily killed (but viable for armor/shield logi to rep them also and can serve as baitship).

What do you think?

Oh here's some more cents,

On top of the existing classes you could then also introduce pirate faction industrials (smuggling ships).

Are you actually telling me that by having trained Amarr Industrial V I have already trained the right thing?!? This is a tiericide first for me and I am uncertain as to how to react except to assume you will probably change it before going live.

As for the Hoarder - it is hideous - use the Mammoth. I can't think of an uglier vessel in Eve (even edges out the Imicus). You should make it the BR model so it spends most of its time cloaked. The art dept is trolling you. Or on crack. Or both.

I love ganking. Thank you for making my job easier, and increasing my tear reservoirs.

First correct the obvious epic mistake and put the Mammoth back has the cargo specialized ship and put the Hoarder in the reserve team.

Then transform the ITERON MARK II, ITERON MARK III, ITERON MARK IV and the Hoarder in specialized cargo ships.


Pick up the ITERON MARK II, ITERON MARK III, ITERON MARK IV, change their names, paint some different colors on them and give them specialized cargo holds, give one 50 m3 to transport ore related products, give the other 50 m3 to transport ice related products and give another 50m3 for PI related products.

Third pick up on the Hoarder and give it a specialized cargo hold for gas.

Then go to the BPO of the iteron mark III and transfer the invention part for the BPO of the iteron mark V BPO.


edit: I meant Hoarder not Wreathe, sorry

When might we see these on Sisi? I"m curious about the smuggling potential.

You can't take an orca into a C1.
I still want a mini-freighter that can fit.

Level I : iteron I
Level II: iteron V
Level III: 40-50k ore hold
Level IV: 100-150k ship hold
Level V: 80-100k cargo hold

Make the new ships, leave the odd ships out as legacy, but remove the BPs from the npc stations. Make it an actual iteration on the ships, and not this "well, we need to do something, so ..." patch we're getting.

Mammoth > Hoarder all day and every day, not to mention that there's no good reason to swap roles on the two ships and ruin a lot of people's riggings.

Otherwise, I think this is a decent start. My favorite change by far is the extra PWG for the smaller indys: finally, you can make more than one or two fitting choices.

I'm less enthusiastic about the big haulers losing slots--two highs are highly desirable for WH space--but at least I can understand the logic.

You could get rid of cargo expanders in general now that black ops don't really need them. Use that as a variable along with speed/tank.

You could also do things like warp strength and warp speed...there are a lot of things you could do with them if you, y'no, got a little innovative with them. Granted industrials are kinda boring but still. Why not go all hyperion on them?

I suspect DSTs will go the ~100k m3 route when they get a proper rebalance. It's ridiculous that a mining support ship does the job better than one that takes a pilot with specialized skills in hauling. If CCP is serious about "specialization," and it seems like all the rage now, then all haulers in the line need to perform best at hauling.