Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think the speedy/tanky industrials may find some general use for people moving small amounts of stuff, but the "cargo" haulers are indeed completely trumped by the orca. Being able to move 75k+ m3 of stuff in a ship with 200k+ ehp beats the hell out of hauling up to 38k m3 of stuff with some crappy ehp number. With MWD trick they're about the same in align time as well.

The cargo haulers are pretty sad. I may pick up an agile hauler though.

Still want to know why the CPU is so outrageously high on these ships.

I think he's on the right track here. With a scheme like this:

• Only 2 ships become "extra" instead of 4 -- less awkwardness.
• The Mammoth gets to remain the high-capacity Minmatar hauler that it always was, but the art dept gets to keep their precious Hoarder as a first-class ship as well.
• Only two reskins are required for Sigil and Badger variants.
• No new hulls need to be created; if you really don't like the duplication of the Sigil model you can always go back and upgrade one of them down the road, but that's not a priority.
• All races get one hauler that focuses on one of the three attributes.
• For each attribute, the ships that focus on it can still differ in their balance of the other two. For example the Minmatar and Gallente high-capacity ships can have medium agility and low tank, while the Amarr and Caldari high-capacity ships have low agility and medium tank. Likewise the Minmatar and Amarr high-tank ships can have medium agility and low tank, while the Caldari and Gallente high-tank ships have low agility and medium tank.

I know. It's just damned inconvenient to have to switch a handful of haulers, doling out ~80M ISK for new rigs and move slowass haulers around in Delve to their PI systems :effort:.

I want satisfaction if my optimal hauler is nerfed.

"Some" HP????

You cut the base tank in half.

Many players used this ship as the defacto cheap belt-mining hauling ship (orca was obviously better, but that means your bonuses disappears when it warps off and docks with a load).

Now, the ganker catalysts will just have to look at it and poof.
Plus, many people fitted two tractors in the highs, but you deemed that too many.

Brilliant, just brilliant.

Gankers throughout high sec are rejoicing, deeming you their new messiah.

In for 'Save the Mammoth.' I'm not sure why Art would like the Hoarder better. It looks like a flailing turtle.

I implore you guys to use the Hoarder as your weird third ship. Wreathe and Mammoth should maintain their place as forerunners of the T2 industrials (that you'd better be looking at later). Wreathe-class is fast and agile with small cargo, Mammoth-class is burly and slow with all the cargo. I really really don't want to have to abandon my trusty Mammoth Auroch for a Hoarder.

I'd still encourage you guys to think of a third role, and slot the Hoarder, the Itty Mark whatever, and a couple of Amarr/Caldari reskins (for now, new models somewhere down the line) to it. A tiny ore compressor ala Rorqual? Something unique.

Aren't you essentially screwing over the "shield tanking" races by giving them fewer low slots in exchange for mid slots? Are you giving them enough fittings to actually put something useful in those mids? The last time I tried "tanking" a mammoth, I had trouble getting anything larger than a medium shield extender (generally considered a frigate sized module) to fit. Besides, it seems that most of the EHP of the new tankier industrials will be in hull and hull tanking mods are also low slot modules.

Let's be honest, aside from an MWD for the MWD+cloak trick, midslots on an industrial is about as useful as nipples on a man.

Edit
PS: I support the motion to keep the mammoth as one of the primary minnie industrials.

It's all about m3. If I can haul in 1 load what it would take me three loads to do, I've saved a hour or possibly two. Alignment, warp speed, agility.... I can carry more than the other ship. I have saved hours upon hours of time.

M3

Well, the mammoth is supposed to be big, like a mammoth. :)

How about some new makeover eyecandy? Personally I have always liked the mammoth but, the actual model needs some love as it looks too low poly with poor texture mapping compared to it's counterparts.

Will we see some new facelifts for our haulers? Can't wait to see what happens with my orcas.

o7

p.s. also, do we have an estimate on delivery of the new changes to TQ?

I actually disagree with you on this, I think the shield ships have a pretty good advantage. Armor ships and cargo hauling don't mix because of cargo expanders being in low slots and getting rid of structure combined with astronomic rigs lowering armor. Fitting armor plates also increases mass, ruining your align time.

Using extra mids for shield tanking has no opportunity cost, and if a armor tanker uses just a single low for tank they're going to be worse off in every way compared to a shield tanker.

For an example take the bestower. Take just one low for a simple buffer armor tank and you're sub 31k m3...and your tank still stucks. May as well use those mids for shield tanking, but your building up your tank from 160 base shields (seriously 160? Half a frigate?). And you only have 4 mids total. If you pick a prop mod you get 3 slots for tank, enough for 2 extenders and a hardener.

For a badger II you're at least starting at 630 hp, and you have 6 total mid slots for tank. Shave off 1 for prop mod if you need it, 2 medium extenders, and 3 hardeners for a much better tank. And for that you're only losing 3k m3 of space.

So while there are some trade offs to be made, having extra lows isn't once of them. The fact that the badger II is within 10% max cargo even though it has 2 less lows pretty much means they gave the badger a good shake of the stick when it came to base stats. Plus the badger is going to be by far the tankiest max cargo hauler.