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[Odyssey 1.1] Tech 1 Industrials

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Smyrk
Gradient
Electus Matari
#101 - 2013-06-19 15:21:00 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
950 CPU(+200)

I have to ask: these ships already had more CPU than you can possibly use (literally in some cases). Is there something in the pipeline that would use it (and more) now? I've heard some cool rumors in the past...
Taleden
North Wind Local no. 612
#102 - 2013-06-19 15:21:01 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Taleden wrote:
Two things about this proposal strike me as pointlessly irritating:

- The Itty5 losing its cargo crown to the Bestower is a slap in the face for everyone who trained Gal Indy 5 specifically to maximize their sub-capital hauling capacity (and for the record, that does not include me). That wold be fine if there was a solid reason for the change -- then you could give the customary "your 30 days' training granted you a benefit for a long time, but it has to change now and that's that" -- but in this case, there is no solid reason. The Bestower doesn't have to be bigger than the Itty5; they're so close that you might as well swap their numbers so that the Itty5 remains on top. The only reason to make the Itty5 worse than the new Bestower at exactly what the Itty5 was previously best at is if you're intentionally trying to be a jerk to current Itty5 pilots.


So far as I can see, the Iteron V hasn't lost a single cubic metre of cargo space.


No, but while it was previously the largest T1 hauler available, the Bestower has now been edged juuuust ahead of it. And there's no reason for it -- the Bestower will be just fine remaining a tad behind the Itty5, so why not let those folks who trained Gal Indy 5 continue to have the highest possible T1 capacity? Dangling the Bestower out in front like that just seems spiteful.

"Hey, we know you spent a month training to have the best capacity, so we're going to make you second best now just because we like the taste of your tears."
Vherana
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2013-06-19 15:21:18 UTC
Why are you removing 1 utility Hi from the 'bulky' ones?

You kill their use in W-Space!
Cloak and Probe Launcher are vital in this sort of environment!

And better leave the Mammoth as the big cargo one and delete the Hoarder from the game Cool
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#104 - 2013-06-19 15:23:12 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
About the Mammoth: I just checked in with Art briefly and they confirmed that they simply don't like the way the Mammoth looks. I'll point them to this thread and see what they have to say about your feedback =)


for a second, i was tempted to tell the art department to go F themselves. but instead of risking their scorn, i would rather argue that the mammoth is currently the most popular minmatar hauler and making it obsolete would not only cause unnecessary loose ends like manufacturing costs etc, it would also annoy all players who regularly use it (if only because they now have to waste time on switching).

i am apathetic about the looks issue. although the mammoth does look somewhat cooler, it's minmatar: ugly is the new black!

I should buy an Ishtar.
Shaitan Souleater
Brave Industries
Brave Collective
#105 - 2013-06-19 15:27:33 UTC
Suggested Roles, based on the Iteron series:

Iteron 1: less cargo space, more agile, maybe faster
Iteron 2: PI hauler, able to bypass the customs office (replace the defunct and nearly useless Primae)
Iteron 3: Gas hauler. (make it do AOE damage when destroyed while full. Just sayin)
Iteron 4: Flying fitting service/Fleet hangar. Gives ability to swap subsystems and modules as well as load drones.
Iteron 5: Huge hauler.


It should not be hard to introduce these extra roles into the other races.
Gah'Matar
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#106 - 2013-06-19 15:27:38 UTC
Any chance the itty V can be tweaked to have slightly more cargo space then the bestower for old time's sake (and because my hauling alt has gall industrial 5 dammit)
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#107 - 2013-06-19 15:29:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Malcanis wrote:
Taleden wrote:
Two things about this proposal strike me as pointlessly irritating:

- The Itty5 losing its cargo crown to the Bestower is a slap in the face for everyone who trained Gal Indy 5 specifically to maximize their sub-capital hauling capacity (and for the record, that does not include me). That wold be fine if there was a solid reason for the change -- then you could give the customary "your 30 days' training granted you a benefit for a long time, but it has to change now and that's that" -- but in this case, there is no solid reason. The Bestower doesn't have to be bigger than the Itty5; they're so close that you might as well swap their numbers so that the Itty5 remains on top. The only reason to make the Itty5 worse than the new Bestower at exactly what the Itty5 was previously best at is if you're intentionally trying to be a jerk to current Itty5 pilots.


So far as I can see, the Iteron V hasn't lost a single cubic metre of cargo space.

idk if it was mentioned before, but i would like to ask the question: should we take this opportunity to nerf all t1 industrials across the board cargo wise? from an unbiased point of view, i see no reason why a t1 hauler should be able to lift almost 40k m3 when there are orcas, DSTs and freighters around. maybe i am just short-sighted but i think the question deserves to be asked.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Garik Enaka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#108 - 2013-06-19 15:30:12 UTC
How about using the remaining 4 Industrials for their original purpose (way back) as a mobile refinery (hence all the crazy CPU) this would reduce the need for POS refining arrays and allow a more mobile ability to refine (this also allows smaller mobile groups of users to do things that they can't do without a POS) and does add a little depth to industry as a whole...


just a thought.
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2013-06-19 15:31:43 UTC
I for one welcome having Hoarder as the bulky hauler of minmatar and Mammoth being the "balanced one". Hoarder model definitely looks bulkier and slower than Mammoth.

SSC Brokering Service
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#110 - 2013-06-19 15:34:26 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
honestly, just remove all indies from the game and put in i set of Ore manufactured haulers.


Some of us like this option a lot - unfortunately it would mean doing the same for all t2 haulers and all t1/t2 freighters, which would be A: A giant commitment in terms of art asset creation, B: A waste of assets that already exist and C: would probably be hated by a lot of players because of how much flavor and history it would remove from the game.


well, you could phase them in over a year or so. introduce the ore ships one by one, each of them slightly better than its faction counterparts. then, three years from now or so, turn all the BPOs into high run copies and remove them from NPC stores.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Dumas Athos
World Curling Team
#111 - 2013-06-19 15:35:17 UTC
Am I reading this right or does the Wreath have the slowest align time? I don't know the formula, so I may be misreading it.
Kari Juptris
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#112 - 2013-06-19 15:35:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kari Juptris
Think of all the Mammoths that will be reprocessed if this change goes through. We've lost the Mammoth in our timeline here on Earth. Let's preserve it in the EVE timeline. Extinction isn't a joke Cry

Do you really want to be responsible for the galactic genocide of the Mammoth ship race because of a whim?
Kennesaw Breach
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2013-06-19 15:36:23 UTC
Ok, so let me get this straight.

Before, we had:
Gallente had the biggest T1 hauler cargospace
Amarr had the biggest T2 hauler cargospace
Minmatar had the best T2 slot layout for wormholes
Caldari had the biggest Freighters

Now we have:
Amarr have the biggest T1 hauler cargospace
Amarr have the biggest T2 hauler cargospace
Minmatar have the best T2 slot layout for wormholes
Caldari have the biggest Freighters
Gallente have... a whole bunch of skillpoints we wish we could reallocate.

Brilliant. Thanks a ton. Roll
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#114 - 2013-06-19 15:37:10 UTC
Fixed the Wreathe's mass to put it where it belongs in terms of align time. Gallente usually more agile, but Matar just behind.

@ccp_rise
Kari Juptris
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#115 - 2013-06-19 15:37:41 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Fixed the Wreathe's mass to put it where it belongs in terms of align time. Gallente usually more agile, but Matar just behind.


Confirming that the space french are excellent runners.
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2013-06-19 15:43:06 UTC
btw shouldnt mammoth get some boost? As it is proposed, its both slower to align and with less capacity than iteron II and III... doesnt look right

(but still keep it as the middle hauler, just make it good on its own)

SSC Brokering Service
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#117 - 2013-06-19 15:45:21 UTC
Kennesaw Breach wrote:
Ok, so let me get this straight.

Before, we had:
Gallente had the biggest T1 hauler cargospace
Amarr had the biggest T2 hauler cargospace
Minmatar had the best T2 slot layout for wormholes
Caldari had the biggest Freighters

Now we have:
Amarr have the biggest T1 hauler cargospace
Amarr have the biggest T2 hauler cargospace
Minmatar have the best T2 slot layout for wormholes
Caldari have the biggest Freighters
Gallente have... a whole bunch of skillpoints we wish we could reallocate.

Brilliant. Thanks a ton. Roll


There are only three useful attributes to haulers: cargo capacity, align time, and tank. You can lie to yourself and think speed is actually useful, but it isn't. Given that you have 3 attributes and 4 races, one race is going to get royally screwed. Who do you give cargo capacity to? That has to be Amarr or Caldari because of lore and flavor. Align time goes to Minmatar because of lore and flavor. Tank again goes Amarr or Caldari for lore and flavor. Now throw that forth attribute that you are lying to yourself about, and that has to go to Minmatar because of lore and flavor. You are seriously constrained by lore and flavor. But hey we don't want to **** anyone off due to lore and flavor. Let's just screw over Gallente as that won't **** anyone off.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#118 - 2013-06-19 15:46:50 UTC
What about removing some of that extra CPU that is a relic from the past.., that was suppose to be needed for an industrial module which was never released?..

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#119 - 2013-06-19 15:47:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
The Hoarder is one of my favorite ships actually.

It was my first hauler as a noob, and it was hard earned and a lot of fun. I don't think it's actually that ugly.

I'm concerned as to why Art would want a preference of the Hoarder over the Mammoth. I hope you don't remove the Mammoth from the game, that would be quite X

I don't think giving MIn/Gal racial specializations is an issue over Caldari/Amarr. Not everything has to be symmetric.

Give Gallente Iteron an Ore hold on one of the Iterons with greater agility. So it's better at hauling ore, but nothing else.

Give Minmatar a Slave hold so they can smuggle slaves. Pirate Or make it the hauler with some actual defenses, since Minmatar are all about the DAKKA DAKKA.

In all seriousness, these ships can be given some better roles. But, I understand you want to move on. Just remember to come back to them. I know they're not the most exciting ships for you, but I don't think that means they shouldn't have the chance to be. And I was really excited for them and was hoping you'd really do something exciting.

Where I am.
Mattk50
Whale Girth
#120 - 2013-06-19 15:47:43 UTC
Gah'Matar wrote:
Any chance the itty V can be tweaked to have slightly more cargo space then the bestower for old time's sake (and because my hauling alt has gall industrial 5 dammit)

the itty has the bonus of an extra midslot and better manuverability and ehp for slightly less cargo. Its balanced.