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CCP- what r you guys thinking towards marauders? not finished stats, just general role change

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EXIA MIKOSZ
Strike Birds Zero
#61 - 2013-06-17 08:54:10 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Mole Guy wrote:
salvage king?


I would be very keen for the salvage bonus to be completely removed from Marauders, there is no need for it at all. Any serious mission runner will either use a Noctis alt, or sub-contract their wrecks to Pro-Synergy. Give more useful bonuses to the ships instead. And remove pointless utility highs (no ship needs more than one IMHO) and give either more launchers/turrets or more Mids & Lows.


With 4 Launcher/Turrets you can save some isk for ammo so we no need more than 4
Marauders was made for fight and salvage in same time so bonus will stay for sure
and off course not everybody use noctis
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#62 - 2013-06-17 09:25:00 UTC
agreed.
salvage bonus should stay and apply to drones.
we might bet a slightly large drone bay to hold about 10 of these (in case they take fire for some strange reason).

tractor bonus, salvage bonus need to stay.
we need a scan probe bonus. that would mean we could scan (maybe not as well as cov ops), salvage (not as good as a noctis), and fight..we wouldnt have to buy 5 different ships. just one...=)
DSpite Culhach
#63 - 2013-06-17 12:13:36 UTC
I'm actually training up relevant skills to get into one right now. I just want to fly one around. If they actually make it into a new multiple role thingy I will be pleasantly surprised.

If they however get made weird, I will die of acute disappointment, and my lawyers have strict orders to biomass my toons, spend all the isk on Exotic Dancers, undock in Jita 4-4 in an untanked industrial, and send an abusive private message to the first guy that shows up in an Catalyst.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#64 - 2013-06-17 12:35:45 UTC
All could use 1 more dmg slot, & T2 resist profile.

Paladin: kill cap bonus,web and armor rep bonus. Add optimal range, recharge bonus, armor hp
Golem: kill boost. Increase torp velocity, add shield hp.
kronos: kill web, rep. Add drone dmg bonus & tracking.
vargur: just double the boost amount.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#65 - 2013-06-17 14:12:05 UTC
Wait a minute. Marauders don't have a T2 resist profile? What do they have then? *checks on this*
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#66 - 2013-06-17 14:18:07 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
They gonna make ships focused on FOrum Pvp. They will be able to gank forum posts.


I would buy ship that did that

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#67 - 2013-06-17 14:21:15 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Wait a minute. Marauders don't have a T2 resist profile? What do they have then? *checks on this*


Not all T2 ships get the same resist bonuses. Look at Black Ops, for instance, or Interdictors.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#68 - 2013-06-17 15:29:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mole Guy
DSpite Culhach wrote:
I'm actually training up relevant skills to get into one right now. I just want to fly one around. If they actually make it into a new multiple role thingy I will be pleasantly surprised.

If they however get made weird, I will die of acute disappointment, and my lawyers have strict orders to biomass my toons, spend all the isk on Exotic Dancers, undock in Jita 4-4 in an untanked industrial, and send an abusive private message to the first guy that shows up in an Catalyst.

you?
ive had marauder 5 for a LONG time hoping they would re-do them. patch after patch, disappointment after disappointment.

if it doesnt happen, i will prolly be flushing this 03 toon and playing smoething stupid, like WOW or something...=)


and yes, the marauders DO get a small resist bonus. its nothing big, but its something,
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2013-06-17 15:35:10 UTC
Keep as they are.. but give 6 weapons to each and recon level resitances. And a tracking penalty of 80% :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#70 - 2013-06-17 15:43:23 UTC
Give them the highest subcap DPS in the game. If that means keeping the current bonuses and adding two launchers, fine.

Then do this, give them that sick penalty to tracking and sensor strength...

BUT

Make it possible for another pilot to fly a sensor boosting / tracking enhancing ship to team up with them, so that together they exceed the DPS output of any team of two pirate BS hulls.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Kane Fenris
NWP
#71 - 2013-06-17 17:04:12 UTC
why those stupid calls for 6 waepon slots?
itl totaly kill the the purpose beeing all you want pve ship ... and they would get exploited for pvp

good sugestions imho are:

- give them scan bonus to do ded sites (you have the slots for a scanner)
- fix/adjust some of the boni (imho after te nerf and cruise buff theres now no point in chooseing vargur over golem...)
- ive them all some more bandwidth/drone hangar
- mabe give em more calibration.
- give them all same resistance profiles so ever ship is equaly good in all regions of space (cause they are supposed to be pve kings and not only in a specific region)
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#72 - 2013-06-17 17:16:08 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
why those stupid calls for 6 waepon slots?
itl totaly kill the the purpose beeing all you want pve ship ... and they would get exploited for pvp

good sugestions imho are:

- give them scan bonus to do ded sites (you have the slots for a scanner)
- fix/adjust some of the boni (imho after te nerf and cruise buff theres now no point in chooseing vargur over golem...)
- ive them all some more bandwidth/drone hangar
- mabe give em more calibration.
- give them all same resistance profiles so ever ship is equaly good in all regions of space (cause they are supposed to be pve kings and not only in a specific region)

Let them evolve.

As PvE kings, they are nearly obsolete with more practical pirate and navy faction hulls.

It was feared they would dominate PvP, which is why they had the sensor nerf applied to them.
Their leading competition in PvE, however, has no similar limit to PvP, except for a higher price tag than the T1 ships.

They even have faction doctrines for some groups, making the Marauder's absence to PvP seem pointless in hindsight.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
EXIA MIKOSZ
Strike Birds Zero
#73 - 2013-06-17 17:45:43 UTC
If CCP Evolve them with keeping old bonuses and just add something new i will be more than happy
Kane Fenris
NWP
#74 - 2013-06-17 17:46:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kane Fenris
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Kane Fenris wrote:
why those stupid calls for 6 waepon slots?
itl totaly kill the the purpose beeing all you want pve ship ... and they would get exploited for pvp

good sugestions imho are:

- give them scan bonus to do ded sites (you have the slots for a scanner)
- fix/adjust some of the boni (imho after te nerf and cruise buff theres now no point in chooseing vargur over golem...)
- ive them all some more bandwidth/drone hangar
- mabe give em more calibration.
- give them all same resistance profiles so ever ship is equaly good in all regions of space (cause they are supposed to be pve kings and not only in a specific region)

Let them evolve.

As PvE kings, they are nearly obsolete with more practical pirate and navy faction hulls.

It was feared they would dominate PvP, which is why they had the sensor nerf applied to them.
Their leading competition in PvE, however, has no similar limit to PvP, except for a higher price tag than the T1 ships.

They even have faction doctrines for some groups, making the Marauder's absence to PvP seem pointless in hindsight.



i agree they should be more powerfull in pve that pirate ships i cant see any reason they should be viable in pvp too.

an people who declare pirate ships way beter than marauders look only at dps.
marauders have advantages over pirate ships like ammo consumption and the ability to loot and salvage the valuable stuff althoug i must add to my list:

- increase tractor range bonus to soomewhere in between 200%-500%

together with tewak of boni and increased drone bandwidth/bay they would have the absolute pve edge over pirate ships
ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#75 - 2013-06-17 17:53:15 UTC
I love how everyone is raging on about "Hurr PvP balance comes before PvE balance hurr" in all balance related threads but then start slinging around "Hurr Marauders are for PvE"

It's even funnier when you can get more ISK/hour using faction ships or T3 cruisers. If you factor in salvage it takes even longer using a marauder as opposed to Combat Ship + Noctis.

Save the drones!
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#76 - 2013-06-17 21:36:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Mole Guy
ExAstra wrote:
I love how everyone is raging on about "Hurr PvP balance comes before PvE balance hurr" in all balance related threads but then start slinging around "Hurr Marauders are for PvE"

It's even funnier when you can get more ISK/hour using faction ships or T3 cruisers. If you factor in salvage it takes even longer using a marauder as opposed to Combat Ship + Noctis.


marauders were designed WAY before nocti ever were concieved.
of course its more profitable. but if you are going worm hole tripping, u couldnt take 2 ships with 1 character.

the marauder salvage drones should be able to salvage sleiper bs that takes salvage 5 (i dont know if they can do that now or not)...

to me, the marauder should gain a 50% bonus to salvage drones difficulty to a max of 75%, plus a reduction in salvage time. these 2 were made for each other.

scan probe, 2 tractor, 4 weapons and we're off...

drop drones and go to town destroying things...
Melek D'Ivri
Illuminated Overwatch Group
#77 - 2013-06-17 22:33:57 UTC
As a soon-to-be marauder pilot, here's some major concerns I have about them before actually using it:

Tractor bonus is too small, Tech 1 @ 40 km, or Tech 2 @ 48 km is probably inside the range of most things you kill, meaning you have to slowboat to fully salvage in just this ship, which of course is a bad idea with better availible ships. Increasing the bonus to Orca level range would make the tractors more useful, or changing the MARAUDER skill to have this bonus innately as opposed to a Role or Leveled would be even handier, and provide a way to balance the salvage/tractor side of the ships without changing bonuses.

Example:

The Marauders skill allows a pilot of fly Marauder-class battleships. These ships are meant to be able to stay out in the field for a long time without having to return to a base. 5% bonus to Tractor Beam and Salvager cycle time and 60% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity per level.

Alternative Example:

The Marauders skill allows a pilot of fly Marauder-class battleships. These ships are meant to be able to stay out in the field for a long time without having to return to a base. 7.5% bonus to Tractor Beam and Salvager cycle time and 50% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity per level.

The alternative would be a way to get in and out faster, gain some range on the tractors, and not feel so broke after using a Noctis.

Sensor Strength. I will admit I've been EFTing a lot in my spare time, and can get a better tank with higher DPS on a Kronos even with an ECCM module fitted, giving me higher sensor strength than the Hyperion, but it just feels wrong to spend 600 mil more on a ship that's going to be just marginally better.

I'm sure if I played around with the other races I'd get similar findings when comparing the Marauder with the Tech 1 Tier 3 BSes.

If you, CCP, are worried about them being PVP contenders, maybe something along the lines of a reverse Role bonus would be effective:

[Paladin Example]
Role Bonus:
25% More susceptible to player target painting [Insert the antithesis race of choice ewar here]
100% bonus to large energy weapon damage [Double your weapon strength here]
100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams [Fix this part altogether Twisted]

Vargur Example:
Role Bonus:
25% More susceptible to player neuting or nosferatu
100% bonus to large projectile weapon damage,
100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams

Kronos Example
Role Bonus:
25% More susceptible to player sensor jamming
100% bonus to large hybrid weapon damage
100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams

Golem Example:
25% More susceptible to player tracking disruption
100% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo damage
100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams

Now, that being said, they'd be just like a beefier Tech 1 Tier 3 battleship in all forms, keeping their essence as is:
Slightly improved resists,
Normal sensor strength and range,
Less guns, higher dps,
Able to loot on the fly and stay out for long periods of time

Food for thought CCP!

Btw, glad I copy pasted before I posted. CCP ate my post as usual.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-06-17 22:50:42 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Kane Fenris wrote:
why those stupid calls for 6 waepon slots?
itl totaly kill the the purpose beeing all you want pve ship ... and they would get exploited for pvp

good sugestions imho are:

- give them scan bonus to do ded sites (you have the slots for a scanner)
- fix/adjust some of the boni (imho after te nerf and cruise buff theres now no point in chooseing vargur over golem...)
- ive them all some more bandwidth/drone hangar
- mabe give em more calibration.
- give them all same resistance profiles so ever ship is equaly good in all regions of space (cause they are supposed to be pve kings and not only in a specific region)

Let them evolve.

As PvE kings, they are nearly obsolete with more practical pirate and navy faction hulls.

It was feared they would dominate PvP, which is why they had the sensor nerf applied to them.
Their leading competition in PvE, however, has no similar limit to PvP, except for a higher price tag than the T1 ships.

They even have faction doctrines for some groups, making the Marauder's absence to PvP seem pointless in hindsight.



i agree they should be more powerfull in pve that pirate ships i cant see any reason they should be viable in pvp too.

an people who declare pirate ships way beter than marauders look only at dps.
marauders have advantages over pirate ships like ammo consumption and the ability to loot and salvage the valuable stuff althoug i must add to my list:

- increase tractor range bonus to soomewhere in between 200%-500%

together with tewak of boni and increased drone bandwidth/bay they would have the absolute pve edge over pirate ships



Because Eve is a PVP game and makign them non viable for PVP was one of is not the most STUPID thing CCP ever did to any ship

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
EXIA MIKOSZ
Strike Birds Zero
#79 - 2013-06-17 22:59:13 UTC
Melek D'Ivri wrote:
As a soon-to-be marauder pilot, here's some major concerns I have about them before actually using it:

Tractor bonus is too small, Tech 1 @ 40 km, or Tech 2 @ 48 km is probably inside the range of most things you kill, meaning you have to slowboat to fully salvage in just this ship, which of course is a bad idea with better availible ships. Increasing the bonus to Orca level range would make the tractors more useful, or changing the MARAUDER skill to have this bonus innately as opposed to a Role or Leveled would be even handier, and provide a way to balance the salvage/tractor side of the ships without changing bonuses.

Example:

The Marauders skill allows a pilot of fly Marauder-class battleships. These ships are meant to be able to stay out in the field for a long time without having to return to a base. 5% bonus to Tractor Beam and Salvager cycle time and 60% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity per level.

Alternative Example:

The Marauders skill allows a pilot of fly Marauder-class battleships. These ships are meant to be able to stay out in the field for a long time without having to return to a base. 7.5% bonus to Tractor Beam and Salvager cycle time and 50% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity per level.

The alternative would be a way to get in and out faster, gain some range on the tractors, and not feel so broke after using a Noctis.

Sensor Strength. I will admit I've been EFTing a lot in my spare time, and can get a better tank with higher DPS on a Kronos even with an ECCM module fitted, giving me higher sensor strength than the Hyperion, but it just feels wrong to spend 600 mil more on a ship that's going to be just marginally better.

I'm sure if I played around with the other races I'd get similar findings when comparing the Marauder with the Tech 1 Tier 3 BSes.

If you, CCP, are worried about them being PVP contenders, maybe something along the lines of a reverse Role bonus would be effective:

[Paladin Example]
Role Bonus:
25% More susceptible to player target painting [Insert the antithesis race of choice ewar here]
100% bonus to large energy weapon damage [Double your weapon strength here]
100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams [Fix this part altogether Twisted]

Vargur Example:
Role Bonus:
25% More susceptible to player neuting or nosferatu
100% bonus to large projectile weapon damage,
100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams

Kronos Example
Role Bonus:
25% More susceptible to player sensor jamming
100% bonus to large hybrid weapon damage
100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams

Golem Example:
25% More susceptible to player tracking disruption
100% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo damage
100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams

Now, that being said, they'd be just like a beefier Tech 1 Tier 3 battleship in all forms, keeping their essence as is:
Slightly improved resists,
Normal sensor strength and range,
Less guns, higher dps,
Able to loot on the fly and stay out for long periods of time

Food for thought CCP!

Btw, glad I copy pasted before I posted. CCP ate my post as usual.


25% More susceptible to player tracking disruption in a GOLEM????
Melek D'Ivri
Illuminated Overwatch Group
#80 - 2013-06-17 23:09:06 UTC
EXIA MIKOSZ wrote:
Melek D'Ivri wrote:
As a soon-to-be marauder pilot, here's some major concerns I have about them before actually using it:

Tractor bonus is too small, Tech 1 @ 40 km, or Tech 2 @ 48 km is probably inside the range of most things you kill, meaning you have to slowboat to fully salvage in just this ship, which of course is a bad idea with better availible ships. Increasing the bonus to Orca level range would make the tractors more useful, or changing the MARAUDER skill to have this bonus innately as opposed to a Role or Leveled would be even handier, and provide a way to balance the salvage/tractor side of the ships without changing bonuses.

Example:

The Marauders skill allows a pilot of fly Marauder-class battleships. These ships are meant to be able to stay out in the field for a long time without having to return to a base. 5% bonus to Tractor Beam and Salvager cycle time and 60% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity per level.

Alternative Example:

The Marauders skill allows a pilot of fly Marauder-class battleships. These ships are meant to be able to stay out in the field for a long time without having to return to a base. 7.5% bonus to Tractor Beam and Salvager cycle time and 50% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity per level.

The alternative would be a way to get in and out faster, gain some range on the tractors, and not feel so broke after using a Noctis.

Sensor Strength. I will admit I've been EFTing a lot in my spare time, and can get a better tank with higher DPS on a Kronos even with an ECCM module fitted, giving me higher sensor strength than the Hyperion, but it just feels wrong to spend 600 mil more on a ship that's going to be just marginally better.

I'm sure if I played around with the other races I'd get similar findings when comparing the Marauder with the Tech 1 Tier 3 BSes.

If you, CCP, are worried about them being PVP contenders, maybe something along the lines of a reverse Role bonus would be effective:

[Paladin Example]
Role Bonus:
25% More susceptible to player target painting [Insert the antithesis race of choice ewar here]
100% bonus to large energy weapon damage [Double your weapon strength here]
100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams [Fix this part altogether Twisted]

Vargur Example:
Role Bonus:
25% More susceptible to player neuting or nosferatu
100% bonus to large projectile weapon damage,
100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams

Kronos Example
Role Bonus:
25% More susceptible to player sensor jamming
100% bonus to large hybrid weapon damage
100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams

Golem Example:
25% More susceptible to player tracking disruption
100% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo damage
100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams

Now, that being said, they'd be just like a beefier Tech 1 Tier 3 battleship in all forms, keeping their essence as is:
Slightly improved resists,
Normal sensor strength and range,
Less guns, higher dps,
Able to loot on the fly and stay out for long periods of time

Food for thought CCP!

Btw, glad I copy pasted before I posted. CCP ate my post as usual.


25% More susceptible to player tracking disruption in a GOLEM????


Throw me a bone here on this one Pirate

I like to say things without thinking. hoping no one catches on! Roll