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New dev blog: Starbase happy fun time

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Callic Veratar
#201 - 2011-11-07 17:13:09 UTC
Dalton Vanadis wrote:
I would like to say that one idea that is probably easy to implement and will make all of your players who manage towers very very very happy with you is to just plop a full load of these pellets into the fuel bay on patch day, just erase their old fuel, put in 29 days of fuel blocks and call it a day.


- Anchor Tower
- Put in a bit of fuel
- Convert to blocks for free
- Tear down tower
- Sell fuel
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#202 - 2011-11-07 17:13:32 UTC
Dalton Vanadis wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Currently thinking about:

  • Fuel divisibility situation (ie, faction/sov fuel bonuses)
  • Block build times


Keep on posting, we are paying attention :)


yay

I would like to say that one idea that is probably easy to implement and will make all of your players who manage towers very very very happy with you is to just plop a full load of these pellets into the fuel bay on patch day, just erase their old fuel, put in 29 days of fuel blocks and call it a day.

Not very balanced, but then you won't end up with a giant scramble of doom as everyone tries to catch up with the BPO's and manufacturing and everything within a week of release. Just a thought, since this change seems to be geared towards simplicity, making the changeover that simple would be nice.



Problem is everyone taking out all the fuel but for what's needed to keep it online until it's then filled. POS owners then get at least 100 million ISK that non-POS owners don't.

I guess the problem is that on rollout day, they'd have to iterate through each pos, calculate how much fuel can be made from the contents, then replace it.
darius mclever
#203 - 2011-11-07 17:14:36 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Yay for easier starbase logistics!

Would it be possible to add to defensive bonuses for faction towers? Maybe better base resistances, or bonuses to weapon turrters, instead of fuel bay bonuses? Or, even better, faction specific boosts to each kind of tower, affecting the whole gamut of tower uses.


you already have higher HP on the faction towers.

e.g. 55m HP on a guristas large vs 60m on a dread guristas large.
Maaxeru
State War Academy
Caldari State
#204 - 2011-11-07 17:14:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Maaxeru
Celebris Nexterra wrote:
Soooo when someone is being POS-bashed, (assuming they have an infinite amount of batteries) they can continually anchor and online ECM/Neut/SD batteries???? Someone mentioned doing the same with guns earlier, but because you have to come outside the shield to put ammo in them, it didn't matter. But those batteries don't need ammo, and many would argue a tower should only have ECM batteries on it, as they are rather OP.

I really see a problem with these new anchoring/onlining times. Someone mentioned having a queue set up. I think this is more appropriate, as a POS SHOULD be challenging to set up in that it takes a long time. But you shouldn't have to sit there and stare at each mod waiting for it to anchor/online.

POS bashes are already long and boring enough, please don't make it worse.


^^ This.

- AND -

Letting all blues use all your JBs . . . . nice.

Letting all blues use all your JBs and not giving them some way to fuel the JB . . . . not nice.

Don't let them take fuel out or see how much is in there, but create either a setting that actually allows them to voluntarily fuel the bridge, OR, put on a setting that makes them (or anyone, even if in your Aliance) pay for their jump in liquid ozone.

You could either make it POS specific, or a option that queues off some global Alliance setting the executor can set. In that way, you could say "Everyone get here! Reds inbound! The bridges are "free Pass" to you!" - or - "Nothing's going on today except some hardcore carebearing. Pay for your own damned fuel!"




EDIT: While you're at it, please also create a log of who used the JB inluding at least char name and shiptype. This way if someone is abusing the network, we can see it and whap them in the head. - Thanks!
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#205 - 2011-11-07 17:15:22 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
seriously cut out the cycle time nonsense

it's way easier to increase blocks produced and do different fuel consumption amounts cause that breaks nothing and requires no new code


Have to agree with the simplicity of this one.

Multiply the output of the pellet blueprints by 100 and refactor sizes and consumptions accordingly so you can leave the faction bonuses in place as-is.

Although, I chuckle at the possibility of slowing the faction tower fuel usage cycles also slowing the cycles at which POSs produced moon goo and reactions. :)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Temmu Guerra
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#206 - 2011-11-07 17:15:36 UTC
For the people that keep saying the cost of the pos fuel is going up go back and read the ****ing dev blog. The units listed are to build 4 blocks not 1...
God I hate stupid people.


But yes CCP just increase the number of blocks used by a factor of 10 and that will be able to solve your consumption problem on the faction towers as everyone else has suggested.
I do like the idea and looking forward to seeing it in the patch
Arte
Harden House Irregulars
#207 - 2011-11-07 17:16:58 UTC
Grace Murray wrote:
Wow, thanks for yet another w-space nerf in the winter patch. Now, not only is PI going to cost us a lot more, but instead of fueling our tower mostly on PI goods from in our system, and only needing to haul in ice goo for fuel, we either need to buy it ALL, or haul everything out, find a nearby factory, buy ice goo, and haul it all back in again.

CCP, PLEASE stop only considering the "big alliance in nullsec" case when you design these things. That's not your entire player base, and homogenizing your game takes out a lot of what makes it cool in the first place.



THIS.

I applaud the changes on the whole, if you LISTEN to some of the suggestions given in this thread then this could be a very very good patch for pretty much all concerned, however; Please do not just push the concerns of wormhole dwellers aside saying "well, someone has to get hurt in every patch".

Currently those that live in W-Space only need to haul ice products in, now we have to develop the logistics to either get the blocks from K-Space and haul that in (greater volume then before) or manufacture the blocks after hauling the same ice products in... self-sustainability has taken a hit.What?


Listen to and react to the feedback... already in ~10 pages there is a concensus building on how to overcome some of the issues you highlighted.
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#208 - 2011-11-07 17:17:35 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Currently thinking about:

  • Fuel divisibility situation (ie, faction/sov fuel bonuses)
  • Block build times


Keep on posting, we are paying attention :)


I urge you to NOT allow blocks to divide, let's keep this thing simple, there are plenty of areas of NEEDED complexity, this one does not need more.

As to Faction towers can you make them get an hour free per day? Something akin to every 23 hours they burn fuel they get an hour free? It would be a rather simple fix and keeps the cycle time at 1 hour.

Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Digital Gaidin
Manetheren Rising
#209 - 2011-11-07 17:18:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Digital Gaidin
To CCP,

Please make starbase fixes based on what is best for the game and moving forward, rather than catering to those who spent too much on faction towers yesterday and are fearing their investments may drop in price.

These changes are in a very good direction, please don't muck them up by trying to be a contortionist and make everyone happy. Sovereignty benefits and Faction towers were nice ways to improve upon the margins, and having a way to improve upon operating cost margins would be nice in the future, but please make sure a solid system is put into place first. What you proposed looks very healthy and I'm looking forward to running a future POS network again under the new changes.

Thanks,
~An Ex-Manager of a POS empire who likes these changes

P.S. I have faction towers too though not currently deployed, agree with the intent stated (better fuel usage, but more importantly increasing profits based on reduced sunk cost of running the tower), and while I will miss the extra margins on profit provided by faction towers, it just means their cost goes down for the tower when I unwind my assets. To the whiners, naysayers, and general CCP haters, HTFU.

P.P.S. Please make sure you fully test the switchover prior to launch. Seeing thousands of POS's go belly up on fuel because the dual fuel switchover didn't work as planned wouldn't be as funny as it sounds.
Metis Laxon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#210 - 2011-11-07 17:19:20 UTC
Arte wrote:
Grace Murray wrote:
Wow, thanks for yet another w-space nerf in the winter patch. Now, not only is PI going to cost us a lot more, but instead of fueling our tower mostly on PI goods from in our system, and only needing to haul in ice goo for fuel, we either need to buy it ALL, or haul everything out, find a nearby factory, buy ice goo, and haul it all back in again.

CCP, PLEASE stop only considering the "big alliance in nullsec" case when you design these things. That's not your entire player base, and homogenizing your game takes out a lot of what makes it cool in the first place.



THIS.

I applaud the changes on the whole, if you LISTEN to some of the suggestions given in this thread then this could be a very very good patch for pretty much all concerned, however; Please do not just push the concerns of wormhole dwellers aside saying "well, someone has to get hurt in every patch".

Currently those that live in W-Space only need to haul ice products in, now we have to develop the logistics to either get the blocks from K-Space and haul that in (greater volume then before) or manufacture the blocks after hauling the same ice products in... self-sustainability has taken a hit.What?


Listen to and react to the feedback... already in ~10 pages there is a concensus building on how to overcome some of the issues you highlighted.





You listen as well, with this system you only need to haul in fuel pellets that you bought off the market. If you don't want to manufacture them at your own POS, which you can. Using the same damn materials you are used to.
Lucas Quaan
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#211 - 2011-11-07 17:19:22 UTC
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
if this picture has the 4 icons for the fuel blocks, may I suggest changing the colour of the blocks themselves to hues of the racial colours?

The blocks having a different colour will be much more recognisable than their little frames. It's a small thing, but you may as well get the icons right the first time. Usability goes a long way to getting happy customers :)

This should be on every page.
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#212 - 2011-11-07 17:19:53 UTC
Arte wrote:
Grace Murray wrote:
Wow, thanks for yet another w-space nerf in the winter patch. Now, not only is PI going to cost us a lot more, but instead of fueling our tower mostly on PI goods from in our system, and only needing to haul in ice goo for fuel, we either need to buy it ALL, or haul everything out, find a nearby factory, buy ice goo, and haul it all back in again.

CCP, PLEASE stop only considering the "big alliance in nullsec" case when you design these things. That's not your entire player base, and homogenizing your game takes out a lot of what makes it cool in the first place.



THIS.

I applaud the changes on the whole, if you LISTEN to some of the suggestions given in this thread then this could be a very very good patch for pretty much all concerned, however; Please do not just push the concerns of wormhole dwellers aside saying "well, someone has to get hurt in every patch".

Currently those that live in W-Space only need to haul ice products in, now we have to develop the logistics to either get the blocks from K-Space and haul that in (greater volume then before) or manufacture the blocks after hauling the same ice products in... self-sustainability has taken a hit.What?


Listen to and react to the feedback... already in ~10 pages there is a concensus building on how to overcome some of the issues you highlighted.








Or have an ammo assembly array, and build it yourself? Just 4 hours a day for a large tower. And that's using one run. Buy a few blueprints, and use multiple lines.
Marsha Mallow
#213 - 2011-11-07 17:20:24 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Currently thinking about:

  • Fuel divisibility situation (ie, faction/sov fuel bonuses)
  • Block build times


Keep on posting, we are paying attention :)


If you can add Dierdra Vaal's suggestion of colour coding the blocks to racial type... that covers most of the concerns.

This is a sentiment I think many people will agree with though, and bears repeating:

CynoNet Two wrote:
I hate to say it, but i think CCP are trying too hard to please us...

As a lifelong starbase masochist I'm all for starbase improvements. Hell there's a reason I mentioned fuel pellets in the CSM proposal. However this whole devblog smacks of pushing out a fix as quickly as possible to impress us, rather than spending a little more time to get it right. Shortcuts like half and half fueling, cutting fuel bonuses and the inevitable market chaos caused by the changes in a short period between patches.

Greyscale, rest assured that we are impressed that you're actively working on fixing these issues. Please take the time to do it properly rather than rushing things out for the holidays. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd rather wait an extra few weeks for the automatic handover than spend December re-fueling towers constantly.

BPO seeding in the main patch, fuel change over in the new year.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Halloween Harry
Doomheim
#214 - 2011-11-07 17:22:03 UTC
Metis Laxon wrote:


You listen as well, with this system you only need to haul in fuel pellets that you bought off the market. If you don't want to manufacture them at your own POS, which you can. Using the same damn materials you are used to.



You havn't the production capacity in station to make all the fuel. On large POS need a production slot for 5days every 29days.
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris
#215 - 2011-11-07 17:22:53 UTC
beautiful - much needed, and about damn time.

that said - this is a good start, please don't stop iterating on these changes :)
Svennig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#216 - 2011-11-07 17:23:33 UTC
CCP:

Fuel pellets are a good idea, although I agree with the statements here that faction towers are nerfed and build times need to be slashed unless you want no slots anywhere.

I'd also like you to take some time to think about another ship class: a tanker. 1m m3 fuel bay that can only contain ice products (and the new pos bricks), jump drive, same stats as a JF. This will simplify the import and export of ice products, and so simplify POS and capital logistics for large corporations.
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2011-11-07 17:24:00 UTC
Halloween Harry wrote:
Metis Laxon wrote:


You listen as well, with this system you only need to haul in fuel pellets that you bought off the market. If you don't want to manufacture them at your own POS, which you can. Using the same damn materials you are used to.



You havn't the production capacity in station to make all the fuel. On large POS need a production slot for 5days every 29days.


So basically: every 10 towers need 2 lines in one station for a Month (roughly speaking)
so how many towers are out there and how many production lines do we have?

i see interesting times...

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Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#218 - 2011-11-07 17:25:01 UTC
Halloween Harry wrote:
Metis Laxon wrote:


You listen as well, with this system you only need to haul in fuel pellets that you bought off the market. If you don't want to manufacture them at your own POS, which you can. Using the same damn materials you are used to.



You havn't the production capacity in station to make all the fuel. On large POS need a production slot for 5days every 29days.



Or the equivalent, with multiple runs. One ammo assembly array, 1 day a month. (if the 0.75 multiplier for it doesn't kick in. if it does, that's 18 hours)
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#219 - 2011-11-07 17:25:04 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

1 robotics makes 4 fuel blocks, so large towers use 1/hour (4 blocks), mediums use 0.5 (2 blocks) and smalls use 0.25 (1 block).

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Sort Dragon
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#220 - 2011-11-07 17:25:16 UTC
Would ccp be willing to give 1 bpo to each person as a redeemable item then have extra bpos on the market as this is going to be the forced fuel type for the future and not everyone will have the means to maybe get a bpo?