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New dev blog: Starbase happy fun time

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Author
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#121 - 2011-11-07 16:36:56 UTC
Good changes, but I see 2 issues.

One is fuel savings from faction towers and sov. Fuel savings has THREE advantages: Lower cost, longer refuel times, and less to haul. The new block system increases the volume you need to haul to fuel your faction tower, a big issue for those who operate where a cloaky transport is the order of the day.

CCP: how about having the fuel savings show up as towers taking "skip hours", that is some hours the tower would need one less block? The tower would calculate the number of blocks needed in decimal each hour and round up:

Hour Needed Consumed
1 0.75 1
2 1.5 2
3 2.25 3
4 3 3 <---- skip hour
5 3.75 4
And so on.

Or just make the blocks smaller and towers use more per hour.

The other issue is that for people who collect their own fuel its not clear this saves effort.

Old system: gather fuel via mining and PI, take to tower.

New system: gather fuel via mining and PI, take to factory, make blocks, take blocks to tower.

The new system is actually more work! (But not much more, I guess averaged over the player base it will save time).

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August Guns
Generic Technologies and Futures Organization
#122 - 2011-11-07 16:37:24 UTC
Ariane VoxDei wrote:

increasing the time between block consumption.

So regular towers would then cycle every 60m as usual
Faction towers would cycle every 63m or 66m, essentially running 5% or 10% longer on each block.


I suspect the 1h tick is something hard coded and a real pain to change. It would be easier to add new fuel types or play with consumption quantity than to change the cycle time.
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2011-11-07 16:37:28 UTC
Fuel "BLOCK" ?!

C'mon! You couldn't come up with something cooler than that?

Kralin Ignatov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2011-11-07 16:38:19 UTC
mkint wrote:
Old system: Do math, haul fuel to POS

New system: do easier math, haul fuel to POS, haul assembly arrays to POS, re-manufacture fuel

This whole things sounds like another nerf to low/null/w-space PI for those who make their own fuel.


Nope. Since you can't get all the ice fuel from w-space anyways, and unlikely to get all componets from the planets, you'll be buying fuel blocks in k-space anyways. easier math, easier to haul, etc.

As for low sec / null sec, you are gonna need to refine that ice anyways, which requires a refining array or station already. This just requires more uses of production slots. So I hope CCP plans to boost those.
MinSebsis
Steel Hammer Industry
#125 - 2011-11-07 16:39:25 UTC
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
if this picture has the 4 icons for the fuel blocks, may I suggest changing the colour of the blocks themselves to hues of the racial colours?

The blocks having a different colour will be much more recognisable than their little frames. It's a small thing, but you may as well get the icons right the first time. Usability goes a long way to getting happy customers :)



I agree with this, color is way faster, just a slight hue change, for race.
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Kaaletram Lothyrawir
Trust Brothers LLC.
The Veyr Collective
#126 - 2011-11-07 16:39:26 UTC
Ok so this might be a simplistic way of solving the faction POS fuel problem but here goes anyway. Faction based fuel for faction tower. All that would need to be done would be a suitable discount/ build requirement for the faction fuel that would appeal to the tower owners and away you go. you could make the fuel cube T2 to match the POS type as well... just an idea...
Yvan Ratamnim
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2011-11-07 16:39:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Yvan Ratamnim
ARG Damn forums..
Yvan Ratamnim
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2011-11-07 16:40:07 UTC
CCP!!!!!!!!!!

Faction towers are hella expensive and the solution is slappying you in the face

Fuel block BP makes 40 instead of 4 blocks of fuel (truely small pellets) ... each pellet takes up 5m3 of space instead of 50m3 ...

Fuel usage goes x10 for standard towers, and x8 for faction towers (or whatever) ... hell due to there cost maybe even still give a 10% buff to fuel bay size....

This solves the faction issue hands down....

On a good note...

I AM SO HAPPY NO MORE JB PASSES FOR PEOPLE IN ALLIANCE/BLUE TO POS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEST EVER IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anchor / Unanchor delays finalyl won't be an utter chore! THANK GOD....

Dierdra Vaal wrote:
if this picture has the 4 icons for the fuel blocks, may I suggest changing the colour of the blocks themselves to hues of the racial colours?

The blocks having a different colour will be much more recognisable than their little frames. It's a small thing, but you may as well get the icons right the first time. Usability goes a long way to getting happy customers :)


YES PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just change the hue to the isotopes colors to distinguish them, yes the stands can be different as well, but please change the hue from blue to the iso colors!

....

and because it needs to be said.....

PLEASE KEEP THE WRECKABLE OUTPOSTS AND flogging MODULAR POS'S and NOMADIC POS'S high on the list of wanted items for the next expansion like VERY high
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2011-11-07 16:40:47 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
I unsubbed until you announced FIS.

I am definatly back to PLEX after these next 2 months run out.

take HW/LO out of the blocks and leave the consumption mechanics as is on those items

Inappropriate comment removed. Please keep it civil. Spitfire
Largo Coronet
Perkone
Caldari State
#130 - 2011-11-07 16:41:41 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Just to throw my support behind the ideas, as I had them too (they're that obvious):

Large = 400 blocks / hour
Medium = 200 blocks / hour
Small = 100 blocks / hour

Faction towers get a larger fuel bay AND a consumption reduction. SOV holders also get a consumption reduction.

BPO produces 400 blocks per run, and takes 5 minutes per run like all ammo BPO.

Click-drag-drop. Done. Woo cares about small block numbers!

It isn't rocket surgery!
And instead of worrying over PERCENTAGES, just make the changes based on AMOUNTS.

i.e.

5 less blocks per hour per level of sov. (And yes, that's how much I think it should be.)

5 less blocks per hour for a faction tower.

That turns the whole thing into an algebra problem that someone in middle school should be able to solve.

You guys are unable to see the forest for the trees.

This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

Someday, this signature may save my life.

Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#131 - 2011-11-07 16:42:30 UTC
Quote:
While we're waiting to do a proper rewrite of the starbase system


THis!

BTW, when you guys go and fix the POS RMR fiasco; could you guys please fix the corp management UI as well. Would like a page in there for remote star-base management so I don't need to go to said POS and configure it for a Corp member.

Please and Thank you!
Zen

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?

Crexa
Ion Industrials
#132 - 2011-11-07 16:42:32 UTC
Nomad I wrote:
To me this system makes pos fueling much more expensive. I have either to anchor an extra POS to produce blocks, because the production slots are so limited or I have them to buy on market. This system is becomming more annoying.



The more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with you.Straight

Perhaps a new fuel producing module for pos? While your at it, take a look at refining arrays.

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"

DaChMon
STEEL AXIS inc.
#133 - 2011-11-07 16:42:57 UTC
Ohh happy guys, just happy of their blindness...

The new system, in fact, is more complex:
1) You still need to make the calcs for building the ice cubes
2) You still need to use a JF to move the ice cubes
3) Running a faction empire POS now will cost 30% more
4) A lot of ppl, to keep the running costs down, will be forced to do Planet Interaction (the most boring EVE feature in the last 5 years)

YES the system WAS complex, but CCP simplified it just apparently:
CCP is forcing ppl to do Planet Interaction.


BE HAPPY!!!!
Tazmikella
MicroCon Enterprises
#134 - 2011-11-07 16:43:50 UTC
Seriously. Do you want to just kill the game? It is good intent to create "blocks" that people can use to fuel, but you are going about it all wrong and will harrass to stop people from using POSes all together.

First this is the "new" block for 1/hour for Small tower:

8x Coolant
4x Enriched Uranium
400x relevant racial Isotope
4x Mechanical Parts
20x Oxygen
1x Robotics
150x Heavy Water
150x Liquid Ozone

Well the current need for 1/hour for a Small tower is:

2x Coolant
1x Enriched Uranium
113x relevant racial Isotope
2x Mechanical Parts
7x Oxygen
1x Robotics
38x Heavy Water
38x Liquid Ozone

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE?

What is wrong with that picture is ... you are actually having to spend more fuel on a Small tower up to a Large. These changes are going to increase the POS fueling FOURFOLD !! With the changes planned to PI and customs office, the price of fuel will go through the roof. Now, with the increased fuel needs small corporations will stop putting down POSes; thanks again for looking out for the solo or small pilot out there. Now Tech 2 prices will go through the roof because the small corporations won't be able to afford to do invention anymore trying to just maintain a Small POS. All your big-block organization will control all the moon goo AND the PI market because the small guys won't be able to compete, keep a custom office going, and afford the increased cost of fuel.

At a minimum make the Block Size of the fuel blocks the same as it is with a current small tower. And don't even get me started on the Racial tower. I got Racial towers for the pure fact that I don't have to spend so much ISK a month on fueling costs.

Thank you Greyscale for not getting out your calculator or LOOKING AT THE CURRENT GAME to see how things work. Thanks for again pushing the little corporations out of lo-sec/0.0, pushing out the solo players that enjoy this game, and catering to those large RMT alliance that could give a rats arse how much fuel costs because they have tons of PLEXes sinking into the game and macroers mining ice 24 hours a day. I've been fueling POS for 4+ years in the game, please ask the normal people what would be good improvements to the POS fueling system.

And it's not that hard to use a spreadsheet and calculator to do POS fueling. The ONLY nice thing in this dev blog is the decrease in anchoring/un-anchoring time and the Fuel Bay size so don't have to refuel so often.
Silk Vixen
Perkone
Caldari State
#135 - 2011-11-07 16:43:56 UTC
I guess there's a way that could make this SLIGHTLY more tolerable...
20% reduction in build time for faction towers...this increase in fuel bay size is not effective.
Tas Nok
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2011-11-07 16:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tas Nok
(from Dierdra Vaal)

The blocks having a different colour will be much more recognisable than their little frames. It's a small thing, but you may as well get the icons right the first time. Usability goes a long way to getting happy customers

THIS ^^^ in a big way!

also for all those trying to kill this because their faction tower fuel bonus got killed also remember the cpu/pg usage is also gone so you can max out your towers and not use more fuel.

That said it would be nice to have one of the following:
PG/CPU on faction towers buffed by the % of fuel they used to save <<----this is prefered tradeoff
or
along with the 4 vanilla block prints, have 4 faction prints released that put out 5 blocks per batch which can only be used in faction towers .... saw this elsewhere, but the problem is will faction towers be able to use vanilla blocks?
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#137 - 2011-11-07 16:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn Makanen
Crexa wrote:

Perhaps a new fuel producing module for pos?



Sounds good to me. A low cost(isk/pg/cpu) module that people can use to keep on using regular fuel types? Not for making blocks (or maybe it is.) but just a pos maintenance module.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#138 - 2011-11-07 16:46:11 UTC
I like this change a lot - makes it so much easier and you don't have to travel around the univers TWICE everytime you forget a component unless you build on site...

My only concern is the anchoring and unanchoring of towers... It should be much harder ninja-onlining towers in enemy space. If these are near instant up and running you can more or less keep spamming territory with the sov holders not given a chance to react. Also you need to pay super attention to steal towers getting taken down... Maybe it's a good thing, but still the hustling/stealing of towers was a charming part of Eve.

Pinky
Dalton Vanadis
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#139 - 2011-11-07 16:46:16 UTC
Taedrin wrote:
I am actually somewhat unhappy with these changes.

1) Having virtually EVERYTHING anchor and online in seconds is WAY too fast. It would be better, IMO, to allow multiple items to anchor/online at once, or to be able to queue up anchoring/onlining actions around a tower so that you can simply tell the tower where you want everything to be, and it will anchor it for you - freeing you up to go do some other activity instead of having to sit there and baby-sit the thing.

I hope that this reduction in demand will be paired with the bannings of many, many bots.


To the first point, this is supposed to be kind of a temporary solution from what the devs have been saying until there is a full rewrite of the system shortly. So development time to benefit ratio may be affecting what they're willing to implement with regards to this. I think the goal is to try and duct tape a lot of primary fixes to the system, then completely rebuild it soon^tm

To the second point, I don't think PI bots are that common, it seems that would be a giant pain in the ass to code compared to a mining bot (especially with all the interface changes they've done to PI), and plus, PI is very profitable for the time required to manage it, (if you're in the right system, i.e. not high sec), so there doesn't seem to be as much incentive to write a bot for it, since it doesn't require hundreds of hours to make a significant profit (like mining). Just my two cents on that subject.
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#140 - 2011-11-07 16:46:17 UTC
Tazmikella wrote:
Seriously. Do you want to just kill the game? It is good intent to create "blocks" that people can use to fuel, but you are going about it all wrong and will harrass to stop people from using POSes all together.
###stuff from someone that doesn't read####


costs are for 4 blocks. small POS uses 1 block an hour.